U.S Year round to Europe

[Boeing Boeing GONE]

With the addition of Etops 757's and talk of more to come, will U.S make some destination in Europe year round??.Aer Lingus are looking to start service from Ireland to PHL, will U.S just give it to them on a plate in the winter months?? :down:

 

[PHL]

It's interesting the Lingus would consider that only after US started the run. They were begged and pressured for many years by the city(PHL), to serve and it just didn't see the market. Now that US proved its viable, WITH O&D traffic, they decide to maybe jump in??! I think US would maintain their market share, though, with the feeder and PHL customer base.

 

[ringmaruf]

It's interesting the Lingus would consider that only after US started the run. They were begged and pressured for many years by the city(PHL), to serve and it just didn't see the market. Now that US proved its viable, WITH O&D traffic, they decide to maybe jump in??! I think US would maintain their market share, though, with the feeder and PHL customer base.

Sorry to ruin your nice story, but it's not at all correct. It's really simple why Aer Lingus hasn't served PHL despite the locals' begging and getting their sensitive little feelings hurt. The answer is that the U.S.-Ireland bilateral is *extremely* restrictive in which cities each country's airlines can serve, with Irish airlines allowed to serve about a half-dozen different U.S. cities, and US airlines allowed to serve Ireland from about a half-dozen different U.S. cities. (Not to mention the silly SNN rules.) And the lists of approved cities for each country aren't the same; PHL-Ireland is allowed to be served by an American carrier but not an Irish carrier. So Aer Lingus has actually been dying to start PHL-Ireland and also MIA-Ireland for years now, actually since way before US ever contemplated the former route, but hasn't been able to. That's actually a big reason why Aer Lingus served BWI-Ireland for a long time, because it was the nearest city to PHL that they were allowed to serve, and they gained a lot of leakage from PHL on their BWI flights, until PHL got its own nonstops on US. Now, what's changed is the (hopefully) soon-to-be-implemented new U.S.-E.U. bilateral.

 

[Boeing Boeing GONE]

Yeah but will U.S give EI all the Ireland-PHL market in the winter months??.. Pretty hard to market that route to Company's when EI offers it year round. Unless U.S does actually make it a year round service

 

[ringmaruf]

Yeah but will U.S give EI all the Ireland-PHL market in the winter months??.. Pretty hard to market that route to Company's when EI offers it year round. Unless U.S does actually make it a year round service

Once the new U.S.-E.U. bilateral takes effect, US will no longer have to fly to SNN. Whether they will still do it or not in the summer is a big maybe. I think the market can probably support two Ireland flights in the summer--if it's just US in the market, then 1x DUB and 1x SNN is best; but if Aer Lingus joins the PHL-DUB market, then I don't think there's room for a PHL-SNN flight when there'll be that much available capacity to DUB. EI would never dream of serving the PHL-SNN route unless they were forced to; since they'll no longer be forced to offer equal flights at SNN, they won't. In fact, that's where EI will get most of the initial widebodies it'll need for its U.S. expansion markets upon the new bilateral going into effect--they'll cancel current SNN longhaul routes and use those planes on the new DUB routes.

As for the winter, the reason I bring up SNN is that once US no longer has to worry about flying to it, it will be able to fly DUB as a stand-alone route during part or all of the year. And I do think it will fly to DUB year-round then, though they might cut capacity to 4x or 5x weekly in the slow season, or downgrade from a 767 to a 757 in the winter. (I'm assuming they find another few birds in the latter case; if they remain with only 3 transatlantic ETOPS 757s, there'll only be one at most available for transatlantic service during the winter.)

So I think what'll happen with US's Ireland schedule under the new bilateral is that they'll go from seasonal DUB + seasonal SNN to year-round DUB + maybe seasonal SNN, maybe no SNN at all.

 

[JayBrian]

Don't the 330-200 deliveries start in 2007, that is I think they are still coming? That will provide extra widebody lift if the 767s hang around for a few more years.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

Don't the 330-200 deliveries start in 2007, that is I think they are still coming? That will provide extra widebody lift if the 767s hang around for a few more years.

i think that order was converted to the a350 order? i could be wrong? actually, i hope i am wrong

 

[fly with US]

i think that order was converted to the a350 order? i could be wrong? actually, i hope i am wrong

You wish is granted

The A332 and A350 are two different orders. The A332 is still coming on '07. (I think)

 

[ringmaruf]

Don't the 330-200 deliveries start in 2007, that is I think they are still coming? That will provide extra widebody lift if the 767s hang around for a few more years.

You wish is granted

The A332 and A350 are two different orders. The A332 is still coming on '07. (I think)

They are still on order, but 2007 was the original date from the first bankruptcy. The 10x A330-200 are now scheduled for delivery in 2009-10, with the 20x A350-800 scheduled for delivery in 2011-13.

The A332 is not the ideal replacement for the B762ER on poorer performing routes, though, since the A332 is a pretty good deal larger.

 

[IORFA]

As I understood it, carriers still have to fly to SNN, they just won't have to do it 1 for 1. I think it is going to 3 DUB for every 1 SNN.

 

[Boeing Boeing GONE]

Do you think U.S want to fly to SNN? ( I hears this flt's always full ),the west of ireland is as popular for tourists as dublin. Or is it that they are forced to fly there at present?

 

[IORFA]

At present, if you want to fly to DUB, then you have to have a plane go to SNN as well. 1 for 1. Some do 2 separate flights, some make the stop with the same plane.

 

[ringmaruf]

As I understood it, carriers still have to fly to SNN, they just won't have to do it 1 for 1. I think it is going to 3 DUB for every 1 SNN.

That's just an interim step that'll last 2 years or so until the full open skies agreement takes place.

 

[IORFA]

Well, it isn't all that interim, in the fact that it has been that way for many, many years. You are right that it will be changing, just not going away. You will still have to fly to SNN, just not 1 for 1.

 

[ringmaruf]

Well, it isn't all that interim, in the fact that it has been that way for many, many years. You are right that it will be changing, just not going away. You will still have to fly to SNN, just not 1 for 1.

I certainly wasn't calling the current SNN stopover rules interim, I know full well how long they've been in place.

It's the new ratios you refer to that WILL be INTERIM. From November 2006 to April 2008, airlines will be able to fly 3 DUB flights for each 1 SNN flight.

After April 2008, the SNN stopover rule completely disappears, and no flights will be required to stop there.

I even found you a link.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/200...569HM1LEAD.html