Twu Wages The Best?

[Bob Owens]

Sonny Hall- $200,000+
Jim Little- $143,000+

Sonny Halls Secretary-$100,000+

Sonny Halls secretary makes over $40,000 more than a Top paid A&P mechanic and works day shift with weekends and holidays off.


The secret to a sucessful career is with the TWU, but not as a member, but as an employee of the TWU! Just ask Bobby Gless.



Sonny Hall blast AMFA supporters for being greedy and only caring about themselves. "A loaf of bread costs them the same as you". Yea well it costs you the same as me Sonny so why do you need $200,000/year? Why do you pay your secretary $40,000 more than what you say we should be thankful to get?

Its time for a change.

 

[Checking it Out]

TWU leader 200,000 a year, elected by the delegates who the members elect.

amfa McCormick 800,000 a year, appointed position. No election possible.

Who is geeting the better deal?

amfa 19,000 employees +/-

TWU 190,000 employees +/-

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

cio, typical twu half truths. ALL twu delegates vote on hall's position. That means EVERY local. If you missed it that means that the NON-AIRLINE delegates vote also. Funny thing is that with the suck ass airline delegates "voting" for hall he can not be removed.
Now with AMFA the MEMBERSHIP votes for this position. I would say that the 19,000 +/- AMFA members get the better deal than the 190,000 +/- twu members. Also, does hall provide the same services that the McCormick Group does? No, he does not. The McCormick Group is a company that provides services needed by AMFA. Now tell me what exactly hall does for the AMT. That is besides remove elected officials why actually believe in a strong union FOR the members and not AGAINST the members.
cio, your ignorance is legendary. It is proportional to your cowardice.

 

[TWU informer]

Hey CIO, how much is just the monthly rent for the TWU Headquarters in New York?

You know, the office space on Broadway where the big rat was erected out front?

I bet the rent alone exceeds $800,000.00 in just two (2) months.

You actually want to compare administrative cost per member?
If yes, you are a bigger FOOL than I thought or dreamed!

But hey, I am ready to do the research and compare, unless you want to do the fact finding yourself? Would you be honest about your findings?

I bet before the end of this month, you wish that you never started this debate.

Speaking of debates, are you and your leaders ready to show for a debate down south in Tulsa yet? Just think, you could bring all of your research with proof that AMFA, using McCormick has a higher administrative cost per member than the TWU. LOL

PS, how's the wife Mary doing? I saw her updating local 514 bulletin boards yesterday. She looked like she was having a wonderful time.

Is it true that there are 3 factions within the Officer Ranks down on Pine Street and they fight with each other like the Hatfields and McCoys? Which faction do you and Mary belong to? The "I've got mine faction", or the "I sold company stock for profit faction"?

 

[AMFAMAN]

TWU leader 200,000 a year, elected by the delegates who the members elect.

amfa McCormick 800,000 a year, appointed position. No election possible.

Who is geeting the better deal?

amfa 19,000 employees +/-

TWU 190,000 employees +/-

Please let us know if the twu is not telling the truth about their membership size on the latest LM-2, I will gladly contact the DOL for an investigation.

The LM-2 states 110,000...Our E-Board member states 190,000

Which number is true or shall I have the DOL decide.
http://union-reports.dol.gov/olmsWeb/docs/..._20020831_0.pdf

 

[Cooper]

CIO I do not want an elected delegate electing my leader, I want to personally do that period. that is one of the things that must change in the TWU, if AMFA does not win, and it is not negotiable, it will change or the TWU will be gone eventually do you get that CIO, the members want to personally elect international officers, now don't bring up delegates electing international officers again or you are really going to piss me off. :angry: :angry:

It is people like you and your stupid idea's of what is right that is pushing people like me closer to AMFA.

Do you think that I am not smart enough to elect international officers myself. ?

 

[Superside]

TWU leader 200,000 a year, elected by the delegates who the members elect.

amfa McCormick 800,000 a year, appointed position. No election possible.

Who is geeting the better deal?

amfa 19,000 employees +/-

TWU 190,000 employees +/-

CIO,
K. McCormick is under CONTRACT to AMFA! YOU KNOW THIS, yet you continue to
SPINN!
If McCormick fails to PERFORM per his contract AMFA would most likely HIRE another FINACIAL ADVISOR!!! Get it though your thick head.
THE TWU SUCKS AND YOU KNOW IT! :down:

 

[Superside]

This fIts the TWU perfectly.
"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think."
-ADOLF HITLER
Well thank God the Majority of the Mechanics and Related THINK.

 

[Hackman]

Jeez cio,

Don't you ever get tired of getting your twu ass handed to you? Anyone with an IQ above 75 would most likely call it a day. I guess yours is about 74.

I know, it hurts to have your dreams of twu international $$$ piiffffftt....gone. Oh well you lied, oops, tried your best. Your twu brain failed you again cio.

More failed cio rantings:

Hello everyone,

Who has the power to file a greivance? AMFA at NW which you have to wait until the 38% is reached or the Mechanic at AA which can file a Grievance on anything that is going Out! Or how about the Ideas in Action Program? I thought it was designed to Save the Company Money by showing we can Bring parts in House to Save Jobs and Make the Company Money!

Who at NW is Intitled to receive the Funds when the 38% cap is reached? The Association of course! So who negotiated this Idea!

As for the mechanic ratio, I still think this will allow for NW to Layoff/realign their work schedule to save the company money? The Head count at AA Means we are running more efficiently than NW! I doubt if it means we are farming out More!

Thanks for your time! TWU SOLIDARITY!
Posted by the twu coward, cio www.planebusiness.com Mechanics per Aircraft Contracting out by AMFA v. twu. 6/6/2001

When, for the ump-teenth time, is that twu grievance being filed against AA, huh cio?

 

[Bob Owens]

TWU leader 200,000 a year, elected by the delegates who the members elect.

amfa McCormick 800,000 a year, appointed position. No election possible.

Who is geeting the better deal?

amfa 19,000 employees +/-

TWU 190,000 employees +/-

Jim Little is appointed by Sonny Hall who is elected by an unaccountable delegate vote where 2/3rds of the delegation has nothing to do with AA.

There is no recording of how delegates vote.

Jim Little has complete control of our contract. He is completely unaccountable to us and only accountable to Sonny Hall.

The overwhelming majority of TWU members are not aircraft mechanics and could care less about FAR 145, 66 or any other issues that effect us, including the huge cuts in pay and benefits we were just forced to endure.

TWU officers will still get raises this year because other members of the TWU in other industries were able to get pay raises.

If every single AA delegate voted against Sonny Hall they still could not vote out Sonny Hall or Jim Little, and, we have no way of verifying how they voted anyway.

Even if every single AA delegate voted against Sonny Hall we still could not gain control over our contract.

We still could not choose who signs our contract.

Gary Yingst and Bobby Gless have the power to make agreements with the company, in effect altering our agreement.

They are appointed by Jim Little who is in turn appointed by Sonny Hall who the entire membership of AA could not remove.

Can we vote out Sonny Halls secretary? NO, we cant even vote out Sonny Hall. At best we can hope that delegates that we elect can vote against Sonny Hall. But even if they did, we have no way of knowing how they voted.

If AMFAs members dont like what McCormick is doing they can vote out Delle and vote in someone who will terminate the contract. The members get Direct votes. The member gets accountability.

TWU 190,000 members? OK if you say so, thats makes AA workers an even smaller, more insignificant minority within the TWU.

Of all the members within the TWU, AA employees have the worst deal. Because we have around twenty locals in one agreement the agreement is not the property of any particular local, its the Internationals agreement. Whereas all other Locals within the TWU (to my knowledge) directly participte in negotiations and sign off on the actual agreement our agreement and negotiations are conducted through the International and Jim Little signs off on it. Neither entity is accountable via a membership vote. No locals at AA have power over the contract. In other Locals if the members are unhappy with the agreement they can hold the person who negotiated and signed it accountable. At AA we are denied any accountability.


The fact is for over 20 years the TWUATD at AA has been the leader in concessions throughout the airline industry. They have also seen increased membership over this period. It seems that the TWU has no plan to get us better wages and benefits, surely 20 years should have been enough time to develope a plan? It seems that the TWU is content to sacrifice our living standards in order to swell membership. The question is "Isnt a union supposed to act in the best interests of its membership?" Is belonging to a larger union more of a benefit than higher wages and better benefits? If thats the case then why are we in the TWU? The TWU is a small union. A small union that has such a broad spectrum of members that it fails all of them. If being in a big union is the most important thing then we should join the SEIU. Has not the position of the labor movement always been to increase wages and benefits?

For over 20 years, in good times and bad this union has been the leader in concessions. What kind of future can be expected from a union that for over 20 years has been giving concessions? It must also be noted that over this same twenty year period not only has AA tripled in size, seen dramatic increases in productivity but also saw is most profitable years ever. In the meantime we have consistantly given up benefits and lost buying power.

The TWU sells the idea of huge, industry leading concessions in exchange for jobs, yet we still have people getting laid off. Their arguement for concessions falls right in line with what opponents of the minimum wage and RTW say. The TWU and opponents of the minimum wage and RTW all tout lower wages as a means to decrease unemployment, in other words to save jobs.

How can you, as a "Union Man" reconcile this contradiction?

Are you so brainwashed by these clowns that you dont see it?

Is your devotion to the "TWU" so intense that it justifies lies and distortions?

Do you really feel that the members deserve to be lied to?

If you have to lie to defend the organization shouldnt that be a clue to the fact that something is drastically wrong?



A few weeks back the TWU sent us a paper listing their #1 reason why they feel we should stay with the TWU; AFL-CIO Affiliation.

OK, how did that help us last APRIL?

Do you really think that the government could have afforded to let the majority of the airline industry cease to operate?

Isnt the AFL-CIO in dissary over ULICO and other issues?

The working people of this country have been losing for over twenty years. We have been losing for over twenty years but the last time we fought back by depriving the company of our labor was 1969, over thirty years ago.

How has AFL-CIO affiliation helped stem our losses?

What is the TWU's plan?

Answer- Stop the AMFA drive ,continue the dues flow and continue to give its host companies lower costs than other unions-PERIOD. They have no plan to make things better for us.

 

[Rusty]

TWU leader 200,000 a year, elected by the delegates who the members elect.

amfa McCormick 800,000 a year, appointed position. No election possible.

Who is geeting the better deal?

amfa 19,000 employees +/-

TWU 190,000 employees +/-

cio, why do you say the TWU has 190,000 members when the TWU's LM-2 says there are 110,000 members?

I can see you are very concerned about administration (McCormick group) cost with AMFA. After glancing at the TWU's LM-2, I would say administration costs are around 6 million not including the 2,166,943 welfare costs (well-being and happiness costs) also not including the automobiles nor the pension costs. Looks to me like runaway admin costs at the TWU, kind of like a bus without any brakes!

cio, can you give us some better figures than the TWU's LM-2? Do you know why percentage wise, costs of administration at the TWU is so much higher than AMFA's administrative costs?

 

[Steve Connell]

Anyone else find it odd that Mr. Owens now has all this anti-TWU info, but yet he ran for and held an office he evidently did not believe in? You must have a lot of inner turmoil there Bob, at least you'll have a bit of time to ponder your next move.

 

[Bob Owens]

Anyone else find it odd that Mr. Owens now has all this anti-TWU info, but yet he ran for and held an office he evidently did not believe in? You must have a lot of inner turmoil there Bob, at least you'll have a bit of time to ponder your next move.

Funny, I always thought that you ran for office to represent your coworkers not to believe in some sort of cult.

My coworkers were happy with the job I was doing, but the International could not stand having the truth let out.

My beliefs are unchanged, a union should exist for the benefit of the members, not for the benifit of the union itself or the company.

From day one I sought change within the TWU. Isnt that what the TWU always said, "get involved"?

It seems that the TWU, a union that has led the industry in concessions for over 20 years, does not think that there is a problem with 20 years of givebacks as long as they get more members.

To you these concessions may not be a big deal. You were not willing to fight when you were TWA and you are still willing to sell yourself cheap. You went from being the IAMs whore to being the TWU's whore. The IAM pimped you to TWA, and cut you loose when they were faced with a possible $750,000,000 pension liability and now the TWU pimps you out to get more members. Lets see what happens over the next couple of years at those two Eagle overhaul bases that are now non-union. With cheap whores that are willing to give themselves away cheap this profession will always be in trouble.

 

[Steve Connell]

To you these concessions may not be a big deal. You were not willing to fight when you were TWA and you are still willing to sell yourself cheap. You went from being the IAMs whore to being the TWU's whore. The IAM pimped you to TWA, and cut you loose when they were faced with a possible $750,000,000 pension liability and now the TWU pimps you out to get more members. Lets see what happens over the next couple of years at those two Eagle overhaul bases that are now non-union. With cheap whores that are willing to give themselves away cheap this profession will always be in trouble.

Bob...these concessions you speak of have saved jobs, your sweet AMFA has the stance of "no concessions", that is their perogative, but ask the thousands at NWA and UAL who are furloughed, all they can state is "WHEN I return I will have full wages and benefits" The fact they may have to relocate their kids and possibly change their lifestyle means nothing. After their $$$ runs out they can sit in their cardboard box proudly. Unless you were TWA then you have no right to speak of TWA employees and what they were and were not. Our stance, as IAM and TWA employees Bob was to have a job to come to, not to save one for down the line.

From day one I sought change within the TWU. Isnt that what the TWU always said, "get involved"?
From what I have read Bob you were pro AMFA prior to your election or running for office..is this a fact or hearsay? If you are the great leader you openly state you are then why did you find the need to hide behind the guise of a TWU elected official? And please Bob, state again how the O/H bases are dragging down the wages of the line mechanics and how your 60k/yr job in NY is only worth 30K/yr. We realize you are worth a whole lot more Bob, and you seem to have to much knowledge about pimps and their cheap whores, is this from a previous relationship or you just being funny?

My beliefs are unchanged, a union should exist for the benefit of the members, not for the benifit of the union itself or the company.

Ohhh...that's where my 041001 seniority came from, your strong sense of unionism, your Another Me First Association. Careful here Bob, stating AMFA would have dovetailed TWA might lose you some followers, afterall, they want unionism their way.

 

[Bob Owens]

[Bob...these concessions you speak of have saved jobs, your sweet AMFA has the stance of "no concessions", that is their perogative, but ask the thousands at NWA and UAL who are furloughed, all they can state is "WHEN I return I will have full wages and benefits" The fact they may have to relocate their kids and possibly change their lifestyle means nothing. After their $$$ runs out they can sit in their cardboard box proudly. Unless you were TWA then you have no right to speak of TWA employees and what they were and were not. Our stance, as IAM and TWA employees Bob was to have a job to come to, not to save one for down the line.

From day one I sought change within the TWU. Isnt that what the TWU always said, "get involved"?
From what I have read Bob you were pro AMFA prior to your election or running for office..is this a fact or hearsay? If you are the great leader you openly state you are then why did you find the need to hide behind the guise of a TWU elected official? And please Bob, state again how the O/H bases are dragging down the wages of the line mechanics and how your 60k/yr job in NY is only worth 30K/yr. We realize you are worth a whole lot more Bob, and you seem to have to much knowledge about pimps and their cheap whores, is this from a previous relationship or you just being funny?

My beliefs are unchanged, a union should exist for the benefit of the members, not for the benifit of the union itself or the company.

Ohhh...that's where my 041001 seniority came from, your strong sense of unionism, your Another Me First Association. Careful here Bob, stating AMFA would have dovetailed TWA might lose you some followers, afterall, they want unionism their way.

And what would have happened if we did not give all those concessions?The fact is that AA already enjoyed lower costs thanks to the concessions they have been able to get over the years. Did we really have to undercut UAL and USAIR in order to keep the work in house? If this was all about saving jobs then how come we still have people out on the street?

Your stance at TWA or your stance at MCI? According to the TWA guys here MCI pushed the concessionary contracts through at TWA. Who knows if you had said no way back then, instead of 4/10/01, you would have had 1990 seniority?

Your position seems to be that union workers are limited to either working for less or losing jobs. You seem to assume that the company was being completely truthful as to how dire their situation was.

What have you read about me?? I'm flattered that you have taken such an interest. Could you forward it to me?

Did the source of this information also tell you that Bobby Gless was an AMFA organizer-something I never officially was, who held organizational meetings at his home near the airport? Of couse that was back when he used to have a ponytail. Before he realized there was money to be made by selling out is former coworkers.

The fact is that prior to getting our own Locals I was supporting AMFA, and for good reason, it was the only avenue available to work towards getting all the mechanics in the industry in one union. Tell me what is wrong with the concept of getting all the mechanics in the industry in one union?

Prior to getting the separate Locals I also supported Local 501s efforts to change the TWU. Why not keep any avenue for improvement open? They knew my position as far as uniting all the mechanics under AMFA. I said that the same concept is just as valid for all other airline workers as well but at that time there was nothing out there for fleet workers to use as an alternative to the status quo or as leverage to make the incumbant unions change. However that has changed, now fleet service workers have the AGW. I plan to help get the word out to our stores guys and 501s fleet service workers.

I felt that the separate locals could provide us the opportunity to make the desired changes within the TWU. Changes that could lead to a consolidation within the airline labor movement that would benefit all workers. I made my feelings known right from the beginning to Sonny Hall. Sonny never disputed that the concept was valid. In fact he even endorsed it. But he has no intention on making it become a reality. So that leaves us with two options if we are to stay in this industry; stay divided up by unions that could care less about this industry or 2) make a new start and regroup with other airline workers across the industry who do the same work and form organizations that are focused on our industry and our class and craft.

Do you feel that 20 years of concessionary bargaining is acceptable and that we should continue to support the current strategy of lowering wages and benifits in the name of saving jobs instead of being willing to strike in order to secure language that would secure jobs and pay?

After 20 years of concessions we have been patient enough with their failures. They have no plan. All they do is blame us for not going to meetings and not giving to COPE yet over the last twenty years they have not once ever told us to prepare to fight. Time and time again they said to accept the concessions with the promise that "we will get them next time". Well after 20 years its obvious that they will never admit that this time is the next time.



I dont remember claiming to be a great leader, are you obviously grasping for points to argue. Trying to make this personal instead of going after the issues. I became an elected TWU official because that was the only means available to be the representative of my peers.

There are certain economic realities of which you seem oblivious. The fact is that the airlines are the only industry that pays workers in Kansas City the same as New York and California. Even the government has regional adjustments. Years ago it did not matter as much because the prior generations demanded a NY wage across the system and were willing to fight for it, including striking. The current, "I got mine" leadership of places like Tulsa and MCI no longer take such a position. Instead they promote fear and tell us we must accept concessions. Many of these union leaders take the Union job as a step towards management. By leading the members down they assure themselves a position with the appreciative company.

How would you know if I have too much knowledge about pimps and whores? Those words just seemed to fit when addressing yourself and the TWU/ATD.

Again, why do you blame AMFA for what the TWU put in place? If you want to blame the line fine, but you should remember that overhaul (TUL,AFW) still could have called a roll call and given you guys full seniority. They did not.

As far as losing followers, so be it. I tell it as I see it.

By the way you still have not addressed how allowing a TWA guy who came over from a bankrupt company to displace an AA guy is fair?

The fact is if you guys had voted no, the company could not have laid off anyone at AA with a March 1,2001 seniority date. As long as there was one such person in NY it would have kept most of the ex-TWA guys on the clock too.