TWU Local 514 Tulsa - Moves the Circus to Woodland Mall for the Weekend!

[RV4]

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On 5/24/2003 941 AM Checking it Out wrote:


One other note;

TWU 10% Laid off after a vote of the members to alter the System protection!

amfa 55% Mechanics, higher in other classifications with no vote of the Members!

dave can you tell us what part of the Contract Jim violated when the members voted to change the contract? I understand thanks to our strong Union the TWU was able to bring Members back when the company did layoff! How many has amfa been able to bring back?

TWU SOLIDARITY!


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CIO,

Why not just tell Jim Little to sign off on another 6 year contract "without further ratification" for another pay and benefit cut and save ALL the jobs at AA? Why not have Jim Little sign a contract for min. wage and have AA buy all those closed down maintenance bases? Think of the jobs the TWU would not only save but create?

If you are in this to save jobs insteads of pay and benefits, then you should have saved everyone not just some. What makes that 10% laid-off less valuable than the other TWU members? In another thread you posted "ALL MEMBER MATTER", was that all but that 10% you eliminated?

AMFA at NWA has refused to reduce pay and benefits, and yes they invoked force majeure. Let's take a poll of the TWU and ask them if they would rather have their pay and beneifts back or more jobs. But let's do this with a credible untainted voting procedure.

It appears the concessions were rather exstensive in exchange for jobs at AA. Can you give a price per head saved?

BTW, when was the vote by the members held and what was the count to even open the contract up to begin with? We had contract in place that wasn;t amnedable unitil March 2004, who and what authorized the union to change that?

Here is the list again, what is the price per head saved?

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 17.5% PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 5 HOLIDAYS

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 5 VACATION DAYS

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF JOB SECURITY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF LICENSE/SKILL PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 50% SICK PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 7 SICK BANK DAYS PER YEAR

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT LONGEVITY PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF SHIFT DIFFERENTIAL...

...BUT HEY! THEY GOT YOU 50% OFF TO GO RIDE THE CARNIVAL RIDES AT THE MALL...

FEEL BETTER?

 

[b777conehead]

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On 5/15/2003 8:54:55 AM RV4 wrote:

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On 5/15/2003 8:46:16 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

Oh yeah AMFA would have done so much better for you

I''m sure that the 2500 laid off AMFA mechanics at Norhtwest wouldn''t mind having a little less pay and fewer sick days instead of unemployment and little or no chance of being recalled

Same for all those AMFA supporters at United who used to work in Indy and Oakland

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I FORGOT TO MENTION:

THEY SCREWED OVER 3400 TWU MEMBERS OUT OF EMPLOYMENT AND SENT THEM TO THE STREET!

THEY SCREWED UP THE REDUCTION IN FORCE JUNIORITY LIST AND SENT SOME PACKING OUT OF SENIORITY!

AT LEAST WITH AMFA, THERE WAS A CREDIBLE RATIFICATION VOTE AND EVERY MEMBER HAS A SAY, NOT JUST THE ONE''s LUCKY ENOUGH TO ACQUIRE A PIN NUMBER FOR VOTING!

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well we lost our pay and benefits and there still is rif. but i bet if you took a poll of the layed off northwest mechanics and the aa mechanics. i bet you northwest layed off would say they would rather be recalled with there old pay and benefits not come back to 17.5 and all the benefits gone

 

[Bob Owens]

What are the arguements for and against the Minimum wage?

Big business takes the position that by increasing wages less jobs will be available and it will lead to higher unemployment and welfare.

Unions argue that that is bunk. That all people who work should make a livable wage and that by increasing wages at the lower end of the spectrum it increases their ability to consume and that increased consumption drives up demand and therefore creates more jobs. Extremely low wages leads to the opposite self sustaining cycle, low wages are consumed by shelter and food leaving little to nothing left over for other goods and services. Lower demand leads to layoffs which in turn lead to higher unemployment and welfare.

This is how the two sides have stood on the issue of wages for a long time. The one side said that higher wages led to unemployment while labor said that it did not. History proved labor right. As wages went up unemployment went down. In a unique twist the other side in order to justify the excessive income of those at the top also argued that by increasing the income of the very rich at everyone elses expense that it would trickle back down to everyone else through higher consumption. What they left out is that this rarely materialized in sufficeint volume to have any real benificial effect, most of the excessive earnings were not transferred into consumption of material goods but intsead went towards savings and investment.

That's all changed. The unions of the airline industry have switched sides. They now champion the cause of big business. Lower wages to create or "save" jobs. Uniteds Unions agreed to less of a cut in exchange for more layoffs. The work still has to be done, they just allow the company to contract it out. So the lower wage did not save or create anything, work was simply moved around with union approval. The TWU chose the other route, give massive concesions and lower wages to the point where we underbid everyone else and still allow the company to layoff as they see fit. Both examples prove that the position that labor used to take was the right one. In neither case did lower wages create jobs. Instead they agreed to not resist the termination of their own members and allow the company to move work to even lower paying non-union vendors. These unions, rather than get together and fight, instead assisted the airlines in busting their own unions. However this type of union busting has a unique twist, we still pay dues.

This industry used to have a cycle. The cycle was driven by the fact that a large part of the market was driven by leisure travellers. During the slow seasons the companies would layoff ,then when things picked up they would rehire. This was one of the reasons why unions put such importance on seniority. If you were junior you knew, or should have known that you were likely to get laid off at some point in time. You would plan your life accordingly. You would take the layoff and come back to at least the wage at which you left. The unions knew better than to buy into the companies arguement that if they lowered wages across the board they could keep these people on payroll. They knew that the company would get their cuts and then reduce manpower to what was needed not by simply what it was costing but by what they needed. The unions knew to ride out the bad times, take the layoffs as the company reduced its service to those routes where it made money. Taking these facts into consideration the unions maintained high wages and accepted layoffs.

Demand for airline labor is not driven by what the labor costs but by how many people are buying tickets. Lower ticket prices alone will not drive up demand. People normally do not get on commercial airliners to go for a ride. They get on them to get to a destination. Economic factors beyond the carriers control drive demand because after all the consumer will have to be able to spend when they get to their destination. Even if the flight is free, if the economy is bad they still are not going to go anywhere.

What has driven the race to the bottom by the Unions?

Stupidity. The unions are headed by stupid people for one. They are headed by ex-workers with delusions that they are businessmen instead of union leaders. They pay themselves like managers, have fancy offices and perks like businessmen and even try to think like businessmen. They try to emphasis their business like persona wearing suits and ties, the uniform of the businessman. They do not object to being accused of being a follower of the principles of business unionism. The concept of which is collect dues from any and everybody and provide minimal representation so as to increase the bottom line of the corporations, er ah Union.


Competition. Yes believe it or not there is competition between the unions even within the AFL-CIO. However this competition benifits the airlines not the workers. Workers can not chose to leave one union within the AFL-CIO and go to another. The unions do not have to worry about their members leaving, they only have to be concerned about the host airlines survival and competative position. So instead of focusing on trying to make things better for their workers they compete by trying to offer their host employer the most favorable terms in order to help their carrier put the other carrier at a competative disadvantage. This the leaders hope will allow their host carrier to expand and increase the total dues collected by the union. Its a win-win deal for the company and the bottom line of the union. The members lose but those who are dependant on the bottom line of the union for their supplimental pension, union paid for cars, medical benifits that are superior to that of their members, and six figure salaries make out.Union paid for cars is particularly irksome. Many International union leaders get a union paid car that they really do not need since they dont normallly spend their days going from worksite to worksite, I'm sure if the miles driven on the car were accounted for almost none of it would be considered deductable for tax purposes-back and forth to the office is not deductable. I believe that the TWU spent over $345,000 on cars last year for themselves. Thats over three dollars per member to buy cars for six figure earning officers. You would think at those salaries they could afford to buy their own cars!
What are the members going to do about it anyway? Its hard to leave and their choices are limited. All the union leaders have to do is prevent an election.

 

[willnotworkforfree]

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On 5/15/2003 10:35:02 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

I don''t promote Singapore, but you''re lucky that isn''t your new flag, since that and China are where overhaul work will be going

Look at the bright side - if overhaul goes away at AA you can always work at Midas welding tailpipes back on

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sorry but what flag are you flying?

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 5/15/2003 9:44:45 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

nice chart, but who employs more overhaul mechanics?

Southwest are adding some but will have fewer than 500

Northwest ATL is closed, and they just eliminated over 2200 jobs in MSP and DLT

United IND is closed, OAK is closing, and SFO will be doing mostly mod lines and line checks, not overhaul

US Air closed TPA, and has cut back at PIT and CLT

Continenal has outsourced for years and years now

American and Delta are the only majors left doing all of their overhaul in-house. American also has more mechanics than any other airline.



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Using your line of thinking, we should all just take OSM wages and HIRE MORE PEOPLE FOR OVERHAUL. Your skills and responsability have a certain VALUE in the marketplace. People like you have allowed airline management, along with their willing accomplices in the TWU to DE-VALUE your worth at the altar of more jobs for less pay. Thanks a-hole

 

[willnotworkforfree]

what flag are you flying?

 

[RV4]

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On 5/25/2003 1:15:02 PM willnotworkforfree wrote:

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On 5/15/2003 10:35:02 AM Get Over It Already wrote:

I don''t promote Singapore, but you''re lucky that isn''t your new flag, since that and China are where overhaul work will be going

Look at the bright side - if overhaul goes away at AA you can always work at Midas welding tailpipes back on

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sorry but what flag are you flying?

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That is a valid question!

It appear to be a flag that depicts Industry Leading Concessions in exchange for jobs.

 

[RV4]

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 17.5% PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 5 HOLIDAYS

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 5 VACATION DAYS

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF JOB SECURITY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF LICENSE/SKILL PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 50% SICK PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF 7 SICK BANK DAYS PER YEAR

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT LONGEVITY PAY

THEY SCREWED YOU OUT OF SHIFT DIFFERENTIAL...

...BUT HEY! THEY GOT YOU 50% OFF TO GO RIDE THE CARNIVAL RIDES AT THE MALL...


How does the TWU Official Organizer defend the above? With RHETORIC.

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN"