TWU Little - Bluff and then Fold!

[RV4]

Checking it Out,

In addition to the laid-off 1371 Title 1- TWU members, your wonderful TWU also will allow AA to replace those OSM's that will be laid off with mechanics/welders/machinist RIF'd from their current work areas.

The mechanic will lose an additional $5.00 per hour and the welder/machinist will lose $3.45 per hour in skill premium pay. This loss of pay is on top of the 17.5% reduction in base pay.

You must favor your members filing for Bankruptcy instead of the company?

How many jobs did you save again, and what was the price per head to save them?

Read it and weap, then blame AMFA as you always do!


[SIZE= 10pt]ARTICLE 15 – REDUCTION IN FORCE[/SIZE]
[color=" black"][/color]
[SIZE= 10pt]
[/SIZE](4) The parties have agreed that if an Aviation Maintenance Technician, as a result of a reduction in force, must bump back into a shop/area designated as an Overhaul Support Mechanic shop/area, he will carry his pay and license/skill premium classification and chart rate [SIZE= 10pt]with him to the Overhaul Support Mechanic shop/area. He will not receive any License [/SIZE]Premium or any Skill Premium.
[SIZE= 10pt] [/SIZE]

 

[RV4]

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On 4/19/2003 10:06:03 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Hate your managment. Hate your unions. Why bother going in to work? RIP AA.
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How much was your pay/benefit cut again? I keep forgetting about you?

You are probably one of those 46 hiding money from us!

Just give us a little more time my friend, myself and many others will choose to leave AA for better managed companies.

 

[KCFlyer]

Why not leave Monday? You could vote out TWU and put in AMFA. You could vote out APFA and vote in AFA. APA could be replaced by ALPA. Even the top 50 in management could be replaced - but your problems are still just as severe as they are today. Face it RV4 ... AA''s dead. Get a jump on the others and leave tomorrow. I doubt that AA has much more than 3 months as a "going concern". It''s sad. Very sad.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/19/2003 11:06:06 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Why not leave Monday? You could vote out TWU and put in AMFA. You could vote out APFA and vote in AFA. APA could be replaced by ALPA. Even the top 50 in management could be replaced - but your problems are still just as severe as they are today. Face it RV4 ... AA''s dead. Get a jump on the others and leave tomorrow. I doubt that AA has much more than 3 months as a "going concern". It''s sad. Very sad.
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Because I live my life the way I choose, and it will not be on your terms. The day the employer, or someone like you has that kind of control, will be the day we hope for military intervention in our own country.

Checking it Out, where is your response? Or are you going to the allow the management sympathetics to alter the thread discussion and hope for the best?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/18/2003 10:02:25 AM Checking it Out wrote:

Bob,

Can you give us the details on the current proposal NW has offered the AMTs for concessions?



How many are currently on Layoff?

How many NW is going to Layoff?

Does their contract have a No-layoff Clause?

Limits farmouts and who receives the funds first if it is exceeded?



You make a statement and leave out key points.


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I have a question. Jim Little has criticized Carty's apparant avoidance of having to "Share the Pain". Exactly how is Jim Little sharing the pain?

There is one fact that you leave out. This is by far the most concessionary contract ever. The fact that your "experts" did not find the Executives Golden Parachutes and Bonuses leaves us wondering what else they missed? In a year or so when the company is making record profits and we are back to working second and third jobs the International will claim "Oh, those bastards they hid that from us, well we learned a lesson, we will not trust them again", this is the same thing that they said after the 95'Me Too" clause when they claim that the company hid details of the ongoing pilots negotiations that nullified the enforcability of the clause. But since the relationship between the company and the "union" has been so mutually benificial in the past nothing will change.

The fact is that most of the line mechanics have no confidence in the appointed head of the ATD Jim Little. As time goes by and the full effects of the deal that he brokered and he signed are felt resentment will continue to grow as it did against his predecessor Koziatek. (Dont bother with the semantics about the Presidents Council negotiating this, Little and the International dictated that they had to "meet the company's number" and stifled every attempt to get there by any other means than what we ended up with.) The fact is that the Presidents council is not a party to the contract. They do not negotiate the deal, 16 hours of negotiations did not result in this deal and that is the amount of time that was spent between the company and the Presidents council. They were locked in a room and told to "meet the number" by the International. They were not able to negotiate the number. Gary Yinst was seen handing slips of paper to Randy McDonald who then read from what appeared to be the same piece of paper "his suggestions" on how to meet the company/union number. The Presidents council is a farce and is merely there to give the impression that they are brokering the deal when in fact very little diologue takes place between the council and the company, this was true for both these so called "negotiations" and the 2001 agreement. Having the Presidents Council insures that the International, the party to the agreement, can deflect blame to the Presidents council. The members can then blame those officials and vote them out of office which diverts attention away from the appointed ATD Director who is the real culprit. This suits the ATD just fine as they then have a new supply of inexperienced Presidents to play the same game over again with. There is one fact that many people overlook. While many union agreements are between the company and specific Locals of a union, ours is between the International and the Union. As such the Presidents council has no real legal jurisdiction over the agreement. When you examine what really goes on at our "negotiations" what we have is a sideshow. The Presidents council meets, discusses and presents their proposition not directly to the company but to the International. In efffect the Presidents council "negotiates" with the International not the company. The Company occasionally shows up to allow the deception to continue. But the deal has been made between the International and the Company, the purpose of the Presidents is to make whatever minor adjustments are needed to insure passage. We must stop this 6 year deal from going into place. Little does not care because by the time the new contract is put in place he will be old enough to retire anyway. He will collect his double pension, one from the company, and one from your dues through the International while we are stuggling to get by.

Little has Got to go NOW!

I have to wonder if he does go will his retirement party be full of management like Koziateks? While Carty was at Koziateks I dont remember if Hall was. That would be strange that the head of AA is there but not the head of the TWU.

The excuse that the Union is using to justify what will likely be a 40% cut in pay by the time this agreement becomes nenewable is that they are trying to save jobs. Well if thats the case then why are they rolling back the date to 1998? If the goal was to protect jobs then they would have left the 2001 date in place. What the union has done is allow the company to lay off as it sees fit, in accordance with their business plan and deeply cut everyones pay, benifits and working conditions at the same time. This is inexcusable.

 

[Buck]

Does Jim Little have a retention bonus plan hidden from the membership? And who provides it, the AFL-CIO, TWU International or American Airlines........

 

[aapitbull]

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On 4/18/2003 10:15:36 AM Checking it Out wrote:

Why not sign the agreements and file in court for the money the executives tucked away for themselfs?

I Understand these funds are between 20-40 million.

How about giving these funds back to the Employees.

Is this considered sharing?



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Hey CIO where did you go you left so many questions unanswered. So here is another one I have been told by two local presidents that the original concession for the mechanic and related was 280 millon but after fleet service kept half of the cabin cleaners on the line jobs that 35 million more was passed on to us, if we are seperate why did they add 35 million to us?

This 35 million could have paid to keep our sick time full so maybe when jim signs and recovers the money you talk about above we should get our 35 million back?

 

[aapitbull]

HELLO CIO

Check It Out it's good to know some things never change twu spreads lies then runs away!!

 

[RV4]

Checking it Out cannot speak the TWU lies without the union hall open.

That''s OK, maybe he will answer on Monday, when the dictators and liars arrive for work?er, uh I mean union business.

 

[aapitbull]

HELLO CIO

Pine street closed today can''t get the latest lies and misrepresentations

 

[Checking it Out]

HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE

I will respond latter

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 4/19/2003 10:17:08 PM RV4 wrote:


Checking it Out,

 In addition to the laid-off 1371 Title 1- TWU members, your wonderful TWU also will allow AA to replace those OSM''s that will be laid off with mechanics/welders/machinist RIF''d from their current work areas.

The mechanic will lose an additional $5.00 per hour and the welder/machinist will lose $3.45 per hour in skill premium pay. This loss of pay is on top of the 17.5% reduction in base pay.


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Ah, now that explains where all RV4''s vitriol is coming from...

TANSTAAFL

 

[aapitbull]

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On 4/20/2003 2:52:53 PM Checking it Out wrote:


HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE

I will respond latter




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WE ARE WAITING!!!!!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

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On 4/20/2003 258 PM aapitbull wrote:

HELLO CIO

Pine street closed today can''t get the latest lies and misrepresentations

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This is a bright response pitbull!

RV4, I believe you answered you own Questions with a twist of Lime!

Yes, The tentative agreement allows for a one time relief and than adjust the system protection. Unfortunately we could be look at deeper layoffs under the current problems which have poped up! It is to bad Management had to add a twist to this!

 

[Checking it Out]

I have a question. Jim Little has criticized Carty's apparant avoidance of having to "Share the Pain". Exactly how is Jim Little sharing the pain?

*Jim Littles pay is tied to our ATD average Wages!

There is one fact that you leave out. This is by far the most concessionary contract ever. The fact that your "experts" did not find the Executives Golden Parachutes and Bonuses leaves us wondering what else they missed? In a year or so when the company is making record profits and we are back to working second and third jobs the International will claim "Oh, those bastards they hid that from us, well we learned a lesson, we will not trust them again", this is the same thing that they said after the 95'Me Too" clause when they claim that the company hid details of the ongoing pilots negotiations that nullified the enforcability of the clause. But since the relationship between the company and the "union" has been so mutually benificial in the past nothing will change.

* Mutually Benificial, This is correct, You need to be able to work together in order to survive in todays environment!
* I seem to recall we did receive a me to clause in 95 pertaining to our cap on Medical and it was decided not to implement other items since it would hindered us.

* concessionary contract ever! I believe United and NW holds this Title! Or how about Eastern or the Old Frontier Airlines!

The fact is that most of the line mechanics have no confidence in the appointed head of the ATD Jim Little. As time goes by and the full effects of the deal that he brokered and he signed are felt resentment will continue to grow as it did against his predecessor Koziatek. (Dont bother with the semantics about the Presidents Council negotiating this, Little and the International dictated that they had to "meet the company's number" and stifled every attempt to get there by any other means than what we ended up with.) The fact is that the Presidents council is not a party to the contract. They do not negotiate the deal, 16 hours of negotiations did not result in this deal and that is the amount of time that was spent between the company and the Presidents council. They were locked in a room and told to "meet the number" by the International. They were not able to negotiate the number. Gary Yinst was seen handing slips of paper to Randy McDonald who then read from what appeared to be the same piece of paper "his suggestions" on how to meet the company/union number. The Presidents council is a farce and is merely there to give the impression that they are brokering the deal when in fact very little diologue takes place between the council and the company, this was true for both these so called "negotiations" and the 2001 agreement. Having the Presidents Council insures that the International, the party to the agreement, can deflect blame to the Presidents council. The members can then blame those officials and vote them out of office which diverts attention away from the appointed ATD Director who is the real culprit. This suits the ATD just fine as they then have a new supply of inexperienced Presidents to play the same game over again with. There is one fact that many people overlook. While many union agreements are between the company and specific Locals of a union, ours is between the International and the Union. As such the Presidents council has no real legal jurisdiction over the agreement. When you examine what really goes on at our "negotiations" what we have is a sideshow. The Presidents council meets, discusses and presents their proposition not directly to the company but to the International. In efffect the Presidents council "negotiates" with the International not the company. The Company occasionally shows up to allow the deception to continue. But the deal has been made between the International and the Company, the purpose of the Presidents is to make whatever minor adjustments are needed to insure passage. We must stop this 6 year deal from going into place. Little does not care because by the time the new contract is put in place he will be old enough to retire anyway. He will collect his double pension, one from the company, and one from your dues through the International while we are stuggling to get by.

* Bob, If you would spend less time finding faults and more time being positive you would make a good Officer! You down grade our International at the same time collect TWU money and go to all the functions! Their seems to be something wrong here!
* As for the Negotiations, The TWU spent a lot of money to hire professionals to reveiw the books of AA, Granted some information was left out, But the basics was their to determine AA needed help to survive!
* The Presidents Council had the task of how to distribute the amount needed to fulfill the amount needed. It was your President that wanted to eliminate massive jobs!

Little has Got to go NOW!

* Does this mean you intend on resigning?

I have to wonder if he does go will his retirement party be full of management like Koziateks? While Carty was at Koziateks I dont remember if Hall was. That would be strange that the head of AA is there but not the head of the TWU.

* Respect for one another! You can agree to disagree and still shake hands!

The excuse that the Union is using to justify what will likely be a 40% cut in pay by the time this agreement becomes nenewable is that they are trying to save jobs. Well if thats the case then why are they rolling back the date to 1998? If the goal was to protect jobs then they would have left the 2001 date in place. What the union has done is allow the company to lay off as it sees fit, in accordance with their business plan and deeply cut everyones pay, benifits and working conditions at the same time. This is inexcusable.

* I suppose the Profit sharing you received in the 95 contact you will returned?