trip report 8/12

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

uhhhh, I SAID, AVERAGE, now didnt I? I took the second largest capacity to be FAIR.

That's the 500 series. http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Southwest...ing_737-500.php

122 / 3 = 40

Well, if you said average, you should have used the average.

What you did was take the lowest capacity aircraft in WN's fleet to try and make some sort of point, although I would suggest that you failed to make the point you might have been trying to make.

The AVERAGE capacity of WN's fleet would have been determined by taking 502 aircraft at 137 seats each and 25 aircraft at 122 seats each...multiply 502 x 137 and add 25 x 122....then divide by 527. You would then have arrived at Southwest's "average" capacity which is exactly 136.2884 psgrs per flight.

I would not have criticized you for rounding down to an even 136.

But all the statistics and numerical methods miss the real point. The real point is that Southwest FAs are better...whether it is because they are trained better, or the airline does a better job of selecting who to hire, or maybe the desire to provide customers with a positive experience is infectious and comes from peer group pressure. It doesn't matter why they are better. They simply are better.

Southwest's success long term has less to do with smart management and fuel hedges or an efficient fleet. It has everything to do with management recognizing employees as assets rather than liabilities. Southwest employees are empowered to try and do the right thing. You won't find ramp agents filing grievances because the station manager helped load the rear bin, and you won't find provisioning complaining because the FAs had the ice containers pulled out of their drawer waiting to be refilled, and you won't find flight attendants protesting the fact that a couple of non-revs helped cross seat belts at an intermediate stop.

Instead of making snide remarks about a successful airline - where more customers each day come to realize that they offer far more in the way of service than the competition.....you would do well to figure out how you could do a better job at your airline. Perhaps, had you done your job as well as your counterparts at Southwest, your airline would not be having to extort more money from customers for that extra piece of checked baggage or a soft drink or a ridiculous change fee or whatever it is your employer is using to stick it to the client these days.

I said it back in 1998 on Holly Hegeman's board and it is no less true today: In the future, all airlines will either be Southwest or they will be extinct.

 

[KCFlyer]

ELP...you left out one thing...on the other airline that serves PHL-MHT nonstop on a 737 - how much do the cokes or water cost for those who are even offered them in coach? How much do they cost on the RJ - assuming of course drink service is even offered on such a "short" flight?

 

[BoeingBoy]

8 people UP FRONT?.....

8 up front.....isn't that the former HP 737's????

That's a total of 192 people onboard, the aircraft you're mumbling about.

8+13=192??? Must be some sorta new math.....

if your talking about ANOTHER AIRCRAFT.........dont know one that has EIGHT UP FRONT. MOST HAVE 12 TO 16 FIRST CLASS SEATS.

Perhaps a little homework on the various versions of airplanes in the US fleet.....

Jim

 

[SKY HIGH]

8 up front.....isn't that the former HP 737's????
8+13=192??? Must be some sorta new math.....
Perhaps a little homework on the various versions of airplanes in the US fleet.....

I thought he was talking about the 757-200. Wouldnt know the config's of a WEST aircraft.
The only mainline on the EAST with eight seats is the 757.

 

[SKY HIGH]

Well, if you said average, you should have used the average.

What you did was take the lowest capacity aircraft in WN's fleet to try and make some sort of point, although I would suggest that you failed to make the point you might have been trying to make.

I used the wrong configuration. My mistake.

 

[SKY HIGH]

The real point is that Southwest FAs are better...whether it is because they are trained better, or the airline does a better job. It doesn't matter why they are better. They simply are better.

So, I guess flying on the shuttle in DCA, LGA or DCA and doing a full beverage service in 30 minutes when they had 150 passengers to service makes THEM better? How bout a HOT breakfast between PIT and PHL?

DOESNT make them BETTER, they are simply FAST when they need to be.

(my opinion)

 

[SKY HIGH]

I said it back in 1998 on Holly Hegeman's board and it is no less true today:

NEPOTISTIC RAG SITE

 

[US1YFARE]

Now that your a "regular" take some notice how they run there operation compared to US:

Notice that your seatbelts are crossed on your seat so you don't have to search for them

I did notice that. They do a great job so far from what I've seen.

We had a delay going home because of weather and a bird hit--neither their fault. My drink was on the house even though I tried to present my drinkie coupon.

I noticed one thing--the pax are just as rude on WN as they are on US...even seasoned travelers.

I've only flown 4 flights, but I've also noticed that if you are nice to the WN employees they seem to be nice back. I'm going to try them to TPA from PHL.

 

[US1YFARE]

DOESNT make them BETTER, they are simply FAST when they need to be.

(my opinion)

My, how they have slowed down. I guess no need to be FAST because US's service levels SUCK. I guess planes don't need to be clean either. And I guess, biz customers flying on the highest fares don't matter. And let's not forget the nickel and diming.

WN showed me something that US doesn't get...flying Y on some routes isn't that bad when you have a decent seat pitch, clean planes, and smiling F/a's. And when I buy their highest fare, a/k/a business select, I get bonus miles, priority boarding, and a free drink--US offers no such thing.

 

[mga707]

I noticed one thing--the pax are just as rude on WN as they are on US...even seasoned travelers.

I've only flown 4 flights, but I've also noticed that if you are nice to the WN employees they seem to be nice back. I'm going to try them to TPA from PHL.

I have to differ with you on the first observation--I've noticed very few 'jerks' on my WN flights over the past decade. I agree totally with your second observation, and I think that at least partially explains why I haven't seen many jerks in the seats--since the flight crews are friendly and not uptight, it rubs off on everybody.

I recently posted on here about my most recent flight, which generated a "way to go!" letter to Gary Kelly: On a fairly long flight (MDW-TUS) that was not full, the cabin crew was so good that the flight was a 'party plane' while at cruise, with wine tasting in the rear galley and most of the passengers mingling and joking with the FAs, who kept everything loose and mellow. Everyone had a great flight because of them. They were all 'sweet young things', but I also had a great flight (a full one) going up to MDW from DAL (via LIT) a few days before, with a 'senior mama' DAL-based cabin crew, so it's not an age thing at all!

I hate to generalize, so don't flame me, but possibly it's an East Coast thing with the rude passengers? I've only been on one WN flight in the Northeast, and I didn't notice any rudeness on that one, so I really can't say (that flight was ISP-BWI on the morning of 9/11/01, but that's a whole other story...)

 

[swflyer]

SPARE ME the attitude lecture. NOR have you ever worked with me....so your points are....conjecture.

You're correct. I based my comments/reaction completely on the tone of your posts. <_<

I also noticed that you managed to not support your argument about Southwest F/A's by posting links to unfortunate stories about other work groups. I didn't post anything about PHL baggage handlers (who've made HUGE strides) in my comment to you. I also don't seem to recall saying the flight attendant group at SWA was 100% perfect.

Again, SERIOUSLY, sorry about the troubles you're having at your employer. Maybe your energies would be better spent trying to right your own ship, rather than venting anger at/about people successfully doing their jobs.

as you've so eloquently posted(My opinion)

 

[SKY HIGH]

I also noticed that you managed to not support your argument about Southwest F/A's by posting links to unfortunate stories about other work groups. I didn't post anything about PHL baggage handlers (who've made HUGE strides) in my comment to you. I also don't seem to recall saying the flight attendant group at SWA was 100% perfect.

So, based on your comment, WN has different HIRING EXPECTATIONS per work group? Pertaining to employees who steal at WN, I simply posted that to refute your comment........."they are BETTER". thats simply subjective!
Bother way, I found NO tone in my original post EXPLAINING why the service is different on OTHER CARRIERS. F/A to Passenger ratio. BUT THE REPLIES were certainty confrontational.

MY OPINION

 

[SKY HIGH]

My, how they have slowed down. I guess no need to be FAST because US's service levels SUCK. I guess planes don't need to be clean either. And I guess, biz customers flying on the highest fares don't matter. And let's not forget the nickel and diming.

WN showed me something that US doesn't get...flying Y on some routes isn't that bad when you have a decent seat pitch, clean planes, and smiling F/a's.

Show me where I said THAT DIDNT MATTER? Your screen name indicates that you sit in FIRST CLASS when available. How's the seat pitch? Clean planes? Really depends on the time of day you fly....they start out spotless, however, throughout the day and due to ground times, spotless aint gonna happen. Tidy up happens. Smiling F/A's? Pub-leaseeeeeeeeeeee. You're grasping as usual for complaints. I ALWAYS SEE someone smiling while at work.

my opinion

 

[ngneer]

I flew WN a couple of times ISP-PVD back when they flew that route. Total flight time was 20 minutes and I was shocked that they did a beverage service on that flight. The plane wasn't full, but I was amazed that they not only attempted a beverage service but actually managed to serve everyone.

 

[swflyer]

Well, one more time, but that's it.

You originally talked about SWA F/As being not so special. When I said we were, you refuted with links about other work groups, and when I pointed that out, I was still wrong, because you were not originally talking about SWA F/A's, or did I miss a jump in logic???

I also pointed out that I didn't find it necessary to take any shots at other carrier workgroups to tout my own, or any other workgroup at SWA. I believe I even said "we aren't perfect" in the first line of my response to a Customer who recently enjoyed our service. In that same post I asked "how hard is it to be nice", which you found confrontational.

So be it. Be confronted. Try to find a way to be happy in your position without having to degrade others. I sincerely hope that you and your company can aspire to the better parts of your history.

For our new Customer, he missed the rich heritage in the airlines combined under the USAirways banner, and that's a shame.

My Opinion

So, based on your comment, WN has different HIRING EXPECTATIONS per work group? Pertaining to employees who steal at WN, I simply posted that to refute your comment........."they are BETTER". thats simply subjective!
Bother way, I found NO tone in my original post EXPLAINING why the service is different on OTHER CARRIERS. F/A to Passenger ratio. BUT THE REPLIES were certainty confrontational.

MY OPINION