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This is why a DAL merger won't happen.
- Thread starter pilot
- Start date
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
The other thing is giving that DL has produced a standalone POR that would be approved if it's not for DP's wet dreams of "bigger airline," the 1113C burden of "necessary for reorganization of the debtor" is unlikely to be met.
Ergo, the DL pilots don't have to sweat that.
Ergo, the DL pilots don't have to sweat that.
Gilding the Lily
Veteran
- Oct 30, 2006
- 1,466
- 2
Unless I am mistaken, the agreed upon PWA has not been assumed as of yet. Rather, pursuant to the letter of agreement, Delta has agreed to assume the PWA, as modified, as part of any plan of reorganization filed with the Court. Thus, until the POR is accepted and confirmed, the PWA has not been assumed by DL.
Therefore, it is possible that the PWA may be modified/amended before any plan is accepted and confirmed. Of course, it appears that DL ALPA will be reluctant to modify the PWA in a way that will allow US to succeed in a DL/US merge. However, ALPA's reluctance does not prevent an 1113 motion. A decision under 1113 would not "overturn" a previous decision of the court, as this PWA was a result of a settlement (letter of agreement) and order under 363, not 1113.
Of course, your 1st question is probably: "DL doesn't want a DL/US merger so why would DL ever think of attempting an 1113 motion that would give US a fighting chance of succeeding in a DL/US merge?"
Well, it is not always necessary for the debtor (DL) to file the 1113 motion. In fact, the creditors' committee has standing to seek rejection of a collective bargaining agreement when rejection of the agreement is necessary for proper reorganization and the debtor isn't acting. This is a difficult standard to meet; but if the creditors' committee wants a DL/US merger, I think it may be able to find a way (educated speculation that is likely moot).
Therefore, it is possible that the PWA may be modified/amended before any plan is accepted and confirmed. Of course, it appears that DL ALPA will be reluctant to modify the PWA in a way that will allow US to succeed in a DL/US merge. However, ALPA's reluctance does not prevent an 1113 motion. A decision under 1113 would not "overturn" a previous decision of the court, as this PWA was a result of a settlement (letter of agreement) and order under 363, not 1113.
Of course, your 1st question is probably: "DL doesn't want a DL/US merger so why would DL ever think of attempting an 1113 motion that would give US a fighting chance of succeeding in a DL/US merge?"
Well, it is not always necessary for the debtor (DL) to file the 1113 motion. In fact, the creditors' committee has standing to seek rejection of a collective bargaining agreement when rejection of the agreement is necessary for proper reorganization and the debtor isn't acting. This is a difficult standard to meet; but if the creditors' committee wants a DL/US merger, I think it may be able to find a way (educated speculation that is likely moot).
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
This whole mess is now headed down the same road as the United/Usairways merger. Congress is getting involved and Oberstar and his brethren have stated already without the first witness being sworn in, NO WAY...NO HOW! The chances of getting Congress on board, the Justice guys on board, labor AND the creditors on board, looks impossible to me.
When I hear the "talking heads" tossing around the same lingo as last time, the only conclusion I can come to is that the only people getting anything out of this proposed merger will be the lawyers and the consultants.
A320 Driver B)
When I hear the "talking heads" tossing around the same lingo as last time, the only conclusion I can come to is that the only people getting anything out of this proposed merger will be the lawyers and the consultants.
A320 Driver B)
michael707767
Senior
- Aug 21, 2002
- 332
- 0
not quite true. Delta entered into a contract with the pilots, and it was approved by the BK Judge, which says Delta cannot go back for another 1113C motion unless the company is in jeapardy of losing its DIP financing.
- Banned
- #21
It does not matter, the Section 1113 C letters are worth nothing, US had one in the first bankruptcy after the first round of concessions and low and behold several months later US was back after concessions and got them.
Having been involved and through two bankruptcies and three rounds of concessions, we have lived it.
And you don't think DL can finagle the Lenders to suit their wants and needs from the Pilots?
Having been involved and through two bankruptcies and three rounds of concessions, we have lived it.
And you don't think DL can finagle the Lenders to suit their wants and needs from the Pilots?
- Banned
- #23
Simple supply and demand.
Where is a pilot going to get a job paying six figures only working three to four days a week?
Look at the industry and the track record, all pilots at any airline that has asked for concessions have gotten them one way or another, look at DL's pilots, they gave up their pension, just like US did.
They are no differant then any other group.
Where is a pilot going to get a job paying six figures only working three to four days a week?
Look at the industry and the track record, all pilots at any airline that has asked for concessions have gotten them one way or another, look at DL's pilots, they gave up their pension, just like US did.
They are no differant then any other group.
"From the DAL ALPA Chairman:
January 11, 2007
Dear Fellow Pilot,
the MEC remains totally committed and one hundred percent focused on one thing-the death of the US Airways' merger attempt. To that end, at this week's MEC meeting in Washington D.C. , the MEC unanimously passed a resolution committing $15 million dollars to the effort to ensure that Parker fails. Additionally, for the next several weeks, a substantial portion of all MEC operations will shift to Washington as we concentrate our efforts on Capitol Hill and the financial markets. Parker will soon come to realize that we cannot be ignored, that we are not going away, and that the Delta pilots will not be "synergized."
Fraternally,
Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC"
That's a ####load of buttons! I'll bet Doogie is shakin' in his boots now. That'll be one heck of an assessment to the delta pilots. I guess you can't be "synergized" until you have been "dedeltafied"
If delta management is so good, why is the company in the predicament in which they find themselves?
January 11, 2007
Dear Fellow Pilot,
the MEC remains totally committed and one hundred percent focused on one thing-the death of the US Airways' merger attempt. To that end, at this week's MEC meeting in Washington D.C. , the MEC unanimously passed a resolution committing $15 million dollars to the effort to ensure that Parker fails. Additionally, for the next several weeks, a substantial portion of all MEC operations will shift to Washington as we concentrate our efforts on Capitol Hill and the financial markets. Parker will soon come to realize that we cannot be ignored, that we are not going away, and that the Delta pilots will not be "synergized."
Fraternally,
Lee Moak, Chairman
Delta MEC"
That's a ####load of buttons! I'll bet Doogie is shakin' in his boots now. That'll be one heck of an assessment to the delta pilots. I guess you can't be "synergized" until you have been "dedeltafied"
If delta management is so good, why is the company in the predicament in which they find themselves?
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
They've only been bankrupt once. HP+US=3 time loser in that regard.
So delta is about to become a 4X loser!
nycbusdriver
Veteran
I must have missed it.
Was someone defending the US and HP management teams that led the carriers into those bankruptcies?
hublablebla
Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 35
- 0
Simple addition: US PLUS HP= 3 Bankruptcies
US PLUS HP PLUS DL= 4 Bankruptcies
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
USAirways could have disappeared and nobody would have missed us. If Parker and company could not get the deal done on their terms they were not going to do it.
The majority of the ALPA pilots including Delta would have benefited from US being liquidated to relieve the economic pressure on their companies.
Delta is not going to be liquidated. Their pilots have some leverage. We had none.
You and 43% of the U pilots may have been willing to fall on the sword and see USAirways liquidated but fortunately 57% of us were not.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #30
Thanks for saving our airline!
The difference between you and me is precisely what you have articulated. I was willing to take the chance and see U go by the wayside because the profession is infinitely more important than a company. You don't see it that way. You never will. I also had the financial ability to make that choice. Simply because I saw BNF, EAL, and the rest fail. I was prepared. You were not. Shame on you.
But you have some audacity to think this pilot group "saved" U. Pilots fly airplanes. The do not run companies. LUV pilots make 40% more than you do and you think the U pay cuts and pension giveback saved the airline? Even as CAL recently made a substantial pension deposit to its pilot plan and AMR also did so a few months back. Parker can thank you for his millions. As our retired and soon to be retired get squat. Saved the airline? Jeeez!
Your 57% didn't save the airline. You destroyed the profession.
But hey, at least you still have a "job". After all, what else do you know how to do other than fly airplanes.
pilot
The difference between you and me is precisely what you have articulated. I was willing to take the chance and see U go by the wayside because the profession is infinitely more important than a company. You don't see it that way. You never will. I also had the financial ability to make that choice. Simply because I saw BNF, EAL, and the rest fail. I was prepared. You were not. Shame on you.
But you have some audacity to think this pilot group "saved" U. Pilots fly airplanes. The do not run companies. LUV pilots make 40% more than you do and you think the U pay cuts and pension giveback saved the airline? Even as CAL recently made a substantial pension deposit to its pilot plan and AMR also did so a few months back. Parker can thank you for his millions. As our retired and soon to be retired get squat. Saved the airline? Jeeez!
Your 57% didn't save the airline. You destroyed the profession.
But hey, at least you still have a "job". After all, what else do you know how to do other than fly airplanes.
pilot
