This is what you can expect if you sign a card

[Checking it Out]

This is what you can expect if you sign a card

Alaska Mechanics Not Protected Against Farm Outs


Well as a fine example of how well AMFA has done to represent the mechanics and related at Alaska Airlines once again we see that AMFA failed to negotiate Farm Out protection for their members at Alaska.
Under Article 2 Scope of Agreement Paragraph C states:

The Company agrees that all work normally performed by the employees covered by this Agreement in its Maintenance Shops, Airport Stations, or other facilities is recognized as coming within the jurisdiction of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association and is covered by this Agreement. The parties agree that the Company may (1) continue to contract out work heretofore customarily farmed out; (2) return equipment, parts, or assemblies to the manufacturers or to a manufacturer-approved repair station for repair or replacement; (3) purchase necessary parts, equipment or facilities including but not limited to the installation of fixed equipment and new facilities construction; (4) contract out any work when the Company''s facilities, equipment or personnel are not sufficient or available or where employees covered by this Agreement do not have the experience and ability to satisfactorily perform the work required or warranty agreements exist; (5) contract out any work for which the Company''s cost exceeds the vendors charges, less material; (6) reserve the right to contract out other work with the approval of the Union.

This was negotiated with the first AMFA contract at Alaska and was not amended with this last contract negotiations. Why is AMFA letting Alaska farm out what ever work they want and as much as they want?
The "Iron Clad" farm out protection that AMFA boastfully negotiated for the Northwest Mechanic backfired on AMFA with so much work being farmed out now that 4,500 mechanics and related have been laid off at Northwest while their Heavy Maintenance is done over seas and their engine work is being done at a 3rd party maintenance facility just to site a couple examples.
But when O.V. Delle Femine was asked about farm out protection and the lack of it in the Alaska, Atlantic Coast, and Mesaba contracts. Delle said that the Scope Clause protected them from farming out maintenance.
Well Delle you lied again. Since AMFA came to Alaska mechanics in Seattle where told approximately 1.5 to 2 years ago that Seattle was going to be a line maintenance base only and that they would have to relocate to Oakland where the heavy maintenance would be done.
Many mechanics relocated and some where even laid off because of this change. Now this might not seem so bad except for the fact that the 737 heavy maintenance that had been done in Seattle did not relocate with the mechanics. Instead Alaska is farming out all 737 heavy checks to B.F. Goodrich Aerospace (Tramco) in Everett, WA. This accounts for 70% of their fleet. Alaska has 71 737''s (9 737-200C, 40 737-400, 16 737-700, and 6 737-900) and 31 MD80''s.
70% of all the heavy maintenance at Alaska Airlines is being farmed out to a 3rd party non-union maintenance facility. While AMFA has not done anything to stop it! Where is their protection? How many other companies will be allowed to farm out their maintenance at the expense of the hard working mechanics at those airlines?
While hard working mechanics get laid off and their work is farmed out Delle does nothing. Instead of relaxing in the grand AMFA castle in the golden promise land in Loconia, NH maybe Delle should do something about protecting the work of those he represents.
Now was AMFA such a good idea? Maybe we should ask those guys who lost their jobs.

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Checking it Out]

This is what you can expect if you sign a card

Courtesy of AMFANUTS.com
We have a Delle Femine sighting. It''s a couple weeks old but it''s the last place he''s been seen.


TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[The Dissident]

Lets see what do I have the twu to thank for.

lets start with 17.5% less wages
or how about 5 less holidays
then there is the loss of vacation that I had already earned.
Also the 7 sick days they gave away.
And I must not forget to thank them for that wonderful road trip of over 1700 miles I had to do in 2 days just to preserve my employment with the company.

FEAR NOT FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS. FOR THE BELL TOLLS FOR THEE TWU.

How are them FAR 145 classes going back there anyways. I hear that everyone is having to do them. Could it possibly mean that AA is going to spin Tulsa off into its own seperate identity called Tulsa MAint and Eng a wholly owned subsidary of AMR corp. Word from management here on the line is thats whats going to happen. While line maint will still be AA the rest of you twu lovin yahoos in Tulsa will be working for a different company all together.I CANT WAIT!!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

This is what you can expect if you sign a Card!

Democracy or Dictatorship?

AMFA wants you to believe they are champions of democratic principles. But the facts tell a very different story?
AMFA members were voting on Constitutional amendments in September, 2000 when AMFA’s
National Director, who has been in office since 1962, suddenly declared the vote null and void.
His reason? Because dues paying AMFA members were expressing their opinions about the proposed amendments.
In fact, AMFA Local Lodge 33 was forced to obtain a Temporary Restraining Order against the AMFA National to prevent their interference in the democratic process.


TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Checking it Out]

The dissident,

And I must not forget to thank them for that wonderful road trip of over 1700 miles I had to do in 2 days just to preserve my employment with the company.

At least you had a job to go to! Unlike amfa, When your laid off you can forget the oppurtunity.

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Boomer]

Checking it Out
Name the last ATD Director Voted In or Out of Office through direct election of the Members.

Name the last ATD Representative Voted In or Out of Office through direct election of the Members.

Name the last ATD Director Voted Into Office through direct election of the Members.

Name the last ATD Representative Voted Into Office through direct election of the Members.

While you complain about AMFA, the reality under the TWU is MUCH, MUCH WORSE.

 

[RV4]

After attending the Tulsa AMFA Informational Meeting on Friday, and allowing the TWU Local Officers plenty of time to ask their questions and/or attack AMFA.

It became quite clear what the difference is between AMFA/Craft Union advocates versus TWU/Industrial Union advocates.

And this difference is pretty easy to point out:

TWU Advocates - Ignore the failures of your own organizational structure, deflect attention from those failures and focus the membership on other matters using fear based rhetoric, rely on the politicians as the primary goal for change. They honestly admit there are problems with the advancement of the Aircraft Maintenance Profession, but offer zero solutions beyond the belief that funding politicians is the answer. Beyond funding politics, they offer many slogans that attempt to sway opinions. Structure of Union Constitution leaves the leader empowered over the member. Fights to prevent an election from taking place that would allow the mechanics to decide if we should stay with the TWU or change to AMFA.

AMFA Advocates - Recognizes the failed philosophy of industrial unionism and in particular the TWU. Believes that the solution is an industry wide movement for all mechanics to become represented by a craft union under one umbrella. Understands the failures resulting from reliance politics as our basis of strength. Instead, offers a solution of membership empowerment that once given the union back, mechanics of the industry will make gains through of the power of pride, courage, and strength of our skill. Structure of the AMFA Constitution empowers the member. Fights to have an election to allow the mechanics to decide which of these two philosophies will guide our future.

This information represents the difference between the groups of advocates currently entrenched in the debate over our futures.

This thread was started under the claim of "what you can expect if you sign a card".

The simple fact is, signing of the card will allow the mechanic and related group at American Airlines to have an ELECTION to determine union representation. You will each receive ballot instructions to either cast of vote of confidence in favor of the TWU, or vote for a change to AMFA and join the other mechanics in the industry.

The authroization of an election, and the subsequent balloting to determine the wish of the majority on any issue is at the heart of what makes the United States of America the greatest nation on the planet.

Why does the TWU fear an election? Why use fear based rhetoric to attempt to sway the American Worker against the use of a fair and honest election to determine their future?

It appears the TWU is developing a track record of anti-American sentiment.

The TWU used dues money for years to PREVENT the citizens in the state a VOTE on the right-to-work for less issue in Oklahoma. Once the vote did occur, the TWU is now using dues money to overturn the will of the people and reverse the outcome of that election. "PREVENT THE PEOPLE FROM VOTING"

The TWU admitted that the vote on the current Industry Leading Concession was flawed and could not be considered credible. With a stroke of a pen, the TWU and James C. Little removed your right to a credible vote by signing an agreement "without further ratification". "PREVENT THE PEOPLE FROM VOTING"

The TWU is now using fear based rhetoric in attempt to discourage a vote by the membership to decide what Union Constitution we would rather have to advance our profession and our future. "PREVENT THE PEOPLE FROM VOTING"

Again, the balloting system that allows for choice is fundamental to freedom and empowerment of the people. Everyone should be concerned when the advocates and supporters of an organization are developing a clear track record that is designed the prevent elections from taking place and when they do take place attempting to overturn the will of the voters.

AMFA supporters are asking to you to advance the freedom of America by signing the election authorization card. If you wish to cast of vote of confidence for the TWU and maintain your current representation, I disagree with that choice, but respect your right to your opinion and vote. The last union representation vote for the mechanic on AA property happened in 1947, the time has come to re-confirm or replace the TWU.

SIGN YOUR CARD - ADVANCE AMERICAN FREEDOM - EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE

 

[Checking it Out]

This is what you can expect if you sign a Card!

This Card clearly states you want amfa to represent you! By not signing!the Majority is telling amfa they do not want them! Bring all the rhetoric you want to the site but the simple fact is the Majority for the last 40 years has said they do not want this organization! I believe an election was held in the 60's! Democracy does work, You have failed to understand this. You have been involved in three card drives and the majority keeps telling you to go away and you are not listening!



This is what the card says;

Please PRINT clearly. Don't forget to sign and and date the card in your own handwriting. Thank you for supporting the AMFA's effort to advance the interests of our profession.

AUTHORIZATION FOR REPRESENTATION UNDER THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT
I authorize the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association to request the National Mediation Board to conduct an investigation and a representation election and upon winning to represent me as my agent in accordance with the terms and provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 5/30/2003 7:59:23 PM Checking it Out wrote:

Democracy or Dictatorship?

AMFA wants you to believe they are champions of democratic principles. But the facts tell a very different story?

AMFA members were voting on Constitutional amendments in September, 2000 when AMFA’s

National Director, who has been in office since 1962, suddenly declared the vote null and void.
His reason? Because dues paying AMFA members were expressing their opinions about the proposed amendments.
In fact, AMFA Local Lodge 33 was forced to obtain a Temporary Restraining Order against the AMFA National to prevent their interference in the democratic process.


TWU SOLIDARITY!




----------------​

Well if one lawsuit from one local is an indication of a problem then what about the TWU? We along with 5 other locals and many members (through petitions) are suing the TWU, Local 100 has sued the TWU, along with some Local in PA, and thats just what I can think of within the last couple of years, without doing any research.

If you want to talk about interfereing in the Democratic process look at local 100s lawsuit in regards to the Convention when proponents of Sonny Hall were given access to the convention hall to distribute slanderous literature accusing Local 100 leadership of being un-American.

If you could not show up for work and still recieve your salary, in other words if the company could not fire you for any reason, would you be concerned about it? Right now the TWU is in a position where they can not be fired. They still collect our dues but they really dont have to do much for us, our recent contract is proof of that.

An election brings accountability.

Under the present structure, Jim Little and the other International reps who do all the top level intercourse with the company are not accountable to the members they 'represent'.

The 'representatives' never even have to face the membership.

These 'representatives' never face an election and are appointed basically for life no matter how the members feel about their performance.

Jim Little as ATD director is accountable to the International, not to the members. THe only election that he faces is the Convention, under the rediculous, corrupt, inaccurate, unaccountable oral Yeas and Nays system where the Chair, Sonny Hall, determines who wins. As long as membership increases he is doing a good job as far as they are concerned-keep them dues coming in.

At the very least, even if you vote for the TWU an election would motivate the TWU to make changes that we without a doubt need. Accountability and democracy can only exist if people are given a choice.

All that filling out a card does is initiate your right to make a choice. It puts the member in the drivers seat by putting the union in the position of having to justify why they are taking two hours of your gross pay per month. If you are satified with what they say you can vote for the TWU, if not you can vote for someone else or even vote for no union at all, its your choice.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 5/31/2003 6:31:57 AM RV4 wrote:




TWU Advocates - Ignore the failures of your own organizational structure, deflect attention from those failures and focus the membership on other matters using fear based rhetoric, rely on the politicians as the primary goal for change. They honestly admit there are problems with the advancement of the Aircraft Maintenance Profession, but offer zero solutions beyond the belief that funding politicians is the answer. Beyond funding politics, they offer many slogans that attempt to sway opinions. Structure of Union Constitution leaves the leader empowered over the member. Fights to prevent an election from taking place that would allow the mechanics to decide if we should stay with the TWU or change to AMFA.

AMFA Advocates - Recognizes the failed philosophy of industrial unionism and in particular the TWU. Believes that the solution is an industry wide movement for all mechanics to become represented by a craft union under one umbrella. Understands the failures resulting from reliance politics as our basis of strength. Instead, offers a solution of membership empowerment that once given the union back, mechanics of the industry will make gains through of the power of pride, courage, and strength of our skill. Structure of the AMFA Constitution empowers the member. Fights to have an election to allow the mechanics to decide which of these two philosophies will guide our future.

The critcal mistake that todays labor movement makes is that they know that politically they are losing power within the political structure and they do not know how to get it back. They concentrate on trying to rally members to vote one way or the other, but the ballott box was not really the source of their power in the past.

Unions gained power by showing the businesses and the government that the businesses own that Unions would cause considerable economic disruptions should the reasonable demands of workers be denied. It is only by having the ability and demonstrating the willingness to use it that Unions will once again have respect in the chambers of DC.

Unions, especially those like the TWU,IAM and IBT that have been transformed from social movements to businesses themselves, are just as averse to economic disruptions and protests as the businesses they supposedly oppose. They have lived off the struggles made by workers decades ago and that account is tapped out. The concept of a General Strike, conducted by business unions is about as far fetched as Bill Clinton turning down an intern or GW Bush understanding the meaning of a word with more than three sylables.

Under the current structure of unionism in the airline industry, for ground workers, the industry has been divied up by three unions that do not have aviation as their primary focus. These unions represent a wide range of workers in a wide range of industries. Some of these workers would be making minimum wage and be much worse off than Airline workers. This tends to make these unions feel that the airlines really dont need that much attention. The fact that Airlines are under the RLA which allows Union security clauses to override state RTW laws also means that as far as these unions are concerned the dues are not under threat, even with poor performance.

Not all unions feel this way about their members. One of the largest Unions in the country put out a paper called "United We Win", we put it on the 562 website, highlighting some of the problems with the current structure of the labor movement.

I think that regardless of where you stand on the TWU vs AMFA issue, after what we have just seen, we all can agree that change is needed. Without some form of pressure, such as an election, people like Sonny Hall ($200,000/yr) and Jim Little ($141,000) plus perks (the TWU spent over $345,000 on cars last year), will find it a lot easier to deflect blame on the politicians, the AFL-CIO, the members, the economy or the company, than to work towards solutions. After all, they are not suffering, why rock the boat? Under the present system all they have to do is come up with excuses.

Elections offer those with solutions the opportunity to lead. Elections force leaders to lead and not come up with excuses.

What do you want, results or excuses?​

 

[Buck]

----------------
On 5/31/2003 9:02:16 AM Checking it Out wrote:


This is what you can expect if you sign a Card!

This Card clearly states you want amfa to represent you! By not signing!the Majority is telling amfa they do not want them! Bring all the rhetoric you want to the site but the simple fact is the Majority for the last 40 years has said they do not want this organization! I believe an election was held in the 60''s! Democracy does work, You have failed to understand this. You have been involved in three card drives and the majority keeps telling you to go away and you are not listening!



This is what the card says;

Please PRINT clearly. Don''t forget to sign and and date the card in your own handwriting. Thank you for supporting the AMFA''s effort to advance the interests of our profession.

AUTHORIZATION FOR REPRESENTATION UNDER THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT
I authorize the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association to request the National Mediation Board to conduct an investigation and a representation election and upon winning to represent me as my agent in accordance with the terms and provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

TWU SOLIDARITY!


----------------​

A representation election was held in the 60''s? I started in 1984 I guess I was not allowed to participate in that one?

If this is the type of democracy you adhere to we can just elect presidents until they die. Just like Sonny Hall and Jim Little.

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 5/31/2003 9:02:16 AM Checking it Out wrote:


This Card clearly states you want amfa to represent you! By not signing!the Majority is telling amfa they do not want them! Bring all the rhetoric you want to the site but the simple fact is the Majority for the last 40 years has said they do not want this organization! I believe an election was held in the 60''s! Democracy does work, You have failed to understand this. You have been involved in three card drives and the majority keeps telling you to go away and you are not listening!



This is what the card says;

Please PRINT clearly. Don''t forget to sign and and date the card in your own handwriting. Thank you for supporting the AMFA''s effort to advance the interests of our profession.

AUTHORIZATION FOR REPRESENTATION UNDER THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT
I authorize the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association to request the National Mediation Board to conduct an investigation and a representation election and upon winning to represent me as my agent in accordance with the terms and provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.

TWU SOLIDARITY!


----------------​

CIO,

What is your definition of conduct an investigation and a representation election ?

Please provide me with the NMB Case Number to the election that you reference from the 60''s

I know that in the 70''s the Flight Attendant of Americna Airlines were smart enough to leave the TWU. But I would like the mechanic and related case number from the 60''s?

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 5/31/2003 9:02:16 AM Checking it Out wrote:


This Card clearly states you want amfa to represent you!

The card calls for an election and says that if they win the election they are authorized to represent them. It does not say they want AMFA. You need to read it again. Perhaps this is why we have so many problems with our contract language. The card calls for an election, not for AMFA to be the bargaining unit. Signing the card does not compell the signor to vote for AMFA.

By not signing!the Majority is telling amfa they do not want them!

Did the majority of Tulsa members vote in your local elections the last round? If not, then using your logic the majority did not want those who now run your local, or most others.

Bring all the rhetoric you want to the site but the simple fact is the Majority for the last 40 years has said they do not want this organization! I believe an election was held in the 60's! Democracy does work, You have failed to understand this. You have been involved in three card drives and the majority keeps telling you to go away and you are not listening!

Back to your Majority rules thing again. Why does Oklahoma have two Senators , the same as NY or CA? They have a fraction of the population yet that small population has just as much pull in the Senate as other states with many more people. Why? Because there is more to Democracy than Majority or in your case Mob rule. In your case you belong to a Local that feels that because they have the most members that they rule. Well if the majority disregards the rights and needs of the minority then the Minority is perfectly justified in trying to split themselves from an autocratic majority. But your knee jerk idiotic reaction is "Thats anti-union". But is it? Or is your attitude of "we got the majority so screw you" in direct conflict with "an injury to one is an injury to all".

You good ole boys have been hurting the line guys and the profession as a whole for years, approving the loss of A&P mechanics work and jobs to other less paid classifications, for us the same effect as if it was contracted out. It started back in 83 with R&D, then deicing, then SRPs then OSMs. Less jobs and less opportunities for A&P mechanics. As far as a mechanic goes does it really matter whether the work goes to an outside vendor or to a different department? No it does not, but it does matter to the union. Contracting out work from mechanics is perfectly OK as long as the union gets the dues. How many jobs has the TWU contracted out from A&P mechanics over the years and how does this number compare to NWA,UAL or USAIR? Yea we kept more dues paying jobs in house but how many A&P jobs were eliminated? How many A&Ps do not work as A&Ps in Tulsa? How many A&Ps, not Title I, but A&Ps do we have per aircraft and how does that compare to other carriers?

Bring on an election and lets have two organizations compete for our vote and may the one that at least makes the best offer win. As it is now the TWU, with no competition can continue to contract out A&P jobs even more so than UAL , NWA or USAIR and then blame us for not giving enough to COPE or backing who they tell us to. An election turns the cards around, instead of them telling us what we must do as they take our money they will have to tell us what they will do in order to convince us to keep them. Its called accountability, and without a threat we will never get it from the TWU.


As far as I'm concerned we should have representational elections every ten years or so, this helps prevent what we have seen happen to much of the labor movement. To say that we had an election 40 years ago and it failed then and then to claim that democacy exists because of that vote is ludicrious. How many of those voters are still alive yet again working? Has this generation ever been given the opportunity to cast a ballot for what organization represents them?

​

 

[j7915]

As far as I''m concerned we should have representational elections every ten years or so, this helps prevent what we have seen happen to much of the labor movement. To say that we had an election 40 years ago and it failed then and then to claim that democacy exists because of that vote is ludicrious. How many of those voters are still alive yet again working? Has this generation ever been given the opportunity to cast a ballot for what organization represents them?
****************************************
Bob would that be sort of like the Federal Elections? One party runs up huge deficits, and the other has to bail the country out, and becomes very unpopular in the process. I won''t put labels on who is who, both parties have done it.

A union is an agent for the members, AMFA said so. So keep an eye on your agent. Maybe we need to separate the negotiatiors from the day to day humdrum work of protecting member''s job and also some of the members from themselves. How much time is spent in your local on the 5-10% of eight balls who can''t seem to stay out of trouble, good guys, but can''t read a clock or stay in their work area for example?

The US constitution was ratified over 200 years ago should we have a re-vote, maybe on the question of a monarchy, George IV is available

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 5/31/2003 532 PM j7915 wrote:

Bob would that be sort of like the Federal Elections? One party runs up huge deficits, and the other has to bail the country out, and becomes very unpopular in the process. I won't put labels on who is who, both parties have done it.

So keep an eye on your agent. Maybe we need to separate the negotiatiors from the day to day humdrum work of protecting member's job and also some of the members from themselves. How much time is spent in your local on the 5-10% of eight balls who can't seem to stay out of trouble, good guys, but can't read a clock or stay in their work area for example?

The US constitution was ratified over 200 years ago should we have a re-vote, maybe on the question of a monarchy, George IV is available

----------------​

OK so the Two party system (that has really morphed into one party)is failing us, so what are you saying? Should we go to a system where we can only elect leaders at the lowest level of government and allow those leaders to vote on a President (who counts the votes and determines the outcome himself) who then appoints all the Governors and Senators? Should we just cut the BS and go right for a Dictatorship? Should we go to the most efficient form of government and eliminate democracy?

Yes the union is our agent. And most agents have defined terms of representation. No so with the Union. With no competition the agent becomes lax in its duties. Without the possibility of termination the agent fails to act in its clients behalf and instead acts solely in its own behalf.

As far as keeping an eye on our agent, like Jim Little, how do you suppose we do that? If we see he is not acting in our interests what recourse do we have?

If the US Constitution was being violated by politicians who had seized power and were not accountable to the people then perhaps we should revote the whole thing. However the US Constitution allows us the right to replace those who do so, our union does not. In government we get to vote on our local representatives, state representatives to both the state and federal level and the President. In our union we vote for local officers only, all those with real decision making power in the ATD are appointed by a President that is not elected by the members. That would be like letting Bush appoint the Governors and Senators and then having only the Governors and Senators vote for the President. The Governors and Senators would then reflect and promote the interests of the President and not those of the people.Obviously under such a system once someone is in power they can only be removed as Stanley Aronowitz said "by death or indictment".

We do not have real Democracy above the local level in our union. I attended the last Convention-which we still have not recieved the minutes of by the way, to claim that it was Democratic is a stretch. Votes were neither accountable or accurate. It was a farce with fixed results. Delegates were encouraged to get through the motions so they could go play in Las Vegas. A motion to conduct all votes by division of the house to ensure accuracy was denied because it was claimed that it would take too long.