This Article Is Spreading Like Wildfire

[Trip Confirmed]

B)


I have a motive?


News to me. I was simply trying to get NWA employees informed of how everyone else (the rest of America) is feeling, and what's REALLY happening because of this incident.

If anyone should choose name calling and major denial instead of facing facts, that's their choice. Trying to shoot the messenger after all, is a lot easier than
actually trying to do something about the problem.

But I'd think anyone with the IQ of a turnip would have to see that something like this does not BRING passengers to an airline. It takes passengers AWAY.

LOTS of them.

Especially from, into, or through Detroit.


And fewer passengers and bad publicity lead to LESS profit.

And NWA is not exactly rolling in dough right now, is it?

I can't think of any airlines who currently think losing money is a good thing.

That's why I mentioned the other thread. These things go hand in hand.

If you'd prefer to pooh-pooh this, be my guest, because one thing still holds true.


NWA is YOUR employer, not mine, and I don't work for any of your competitors.

So I'd venture a little guess that your motive idea is full of holes.

 

[NWA/AMT]

I have a motive?

Apparently you are trying to punish NWA for what is, in your opinion, some failure on their part. Disregard that neither the TSA or the FBI found any fault with the actions of the NWA crew nor NWA's security procedures, you feel the need to keep reminding them, and, not incidentally the rest of the world, of their alleged failure.

News to me. I was simply trying to get NWA employees informed of how everyone else (the rest of America) is feeling, and what's REALLY happening because of this incident.

Thanks, we never actually get that sort of news in the caves you apparently think we live in.

If anyone should choose name calling and major denial instead of facing facts, that's their choice. Trying to shoot the messenger after all, is a lot easier than actually trying to do something about the problem.

As I have stated before, but you seem to be unable to understand, at NWA real people are working to solve real problems regarding security every day and they're doing it in spite of you, not because of you. Your continued slurs on their efforts, even after you clearly stated that you know nothing about what they do, are pathetic.

Maybe you feel that allowing Al Qaeda to see just how bad this one incident has scared you is somehow helping. I'm sure at least they appreciate your efforts.

But I'd think anyone with the IQ of a turnip would have to see that something like this does not BRING passengers to an airline. It takes passengers AWAY.

Sure, and I'm certain they would appreciate if we placed two armed guards, in uniform, at each lavatory - as long as ticket prices didn't go up one cent.

Especially from, into, or through Detroit.

Considering the high percentage of Arabic people in the Detroit area and the apparent reaction some people have to them, regardless of any actual threat they pose, perhaps that's best. Unless you'd prefer we just refuse to serve anyone of Arabic descent, is that your intent?

And NWA is not exactly rolling in dough right now, is it?

Actually we're not doing too bad, despite your efforts.

That's why I mentioned the other thread. These things go hand in hand.

In your mind, yes. Experience has taught us that those same people who say "I'm never flying this airline again!" will invariably click on 'choose lowest fare' next time as well.

If you'd prefer to pooh-pooh this, be my guest, because one thing still holds true.

NWA is YOUR employer, not mine, and I don't work for any of your competitors.

So I'd venture a little guess that your motive idea is full of holes.

Having a motive against NWA has nothing to do with working for its competitors. I've already pointed out that some of the most ardent NWA haters are on its payroll, so why do think my 'little guess' had anything to do with your employer? Your motive has less logic but is just as obvious.

Feel free to return to shouting that the sky is falling.

 

[ExAF]

I'm curious...is the problem me or TripConfirmed? Did I make any sense to the rest of you?

[post="165172"][/post]​

mweiss, it's not you! TripConfirmed just likes stirring the pot.

 

[Trip Confirmed]

How pathetic that people who hold passengers lives in their hands can just blow off something like this.

Some of you have your headquarters where your hindquarters are supposed to be.

I truly believe NWA will be attacked . So do many others,because of the "not my problem" mentality.


And when and if it happens, and it probably will considering how NWA crews let them run around without any consequences,there will be the usual round of excuses.

And dead people. Some of them will be employees.

Intelligent airline employees would be screaming for better safety measures.

Call me hysterical if you like.
It solves your really serious lack of security problem.


At least in your mind.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Pathetic! Perhaps you should do us all a favor and change your name to "Trip Cancelled"

Intelligent airline employees have been advocating better safety measures since long before 9/11, but where were you? We were told by both the airlines and the government that increased security was just not cost effective - that the passengers were just not willing to pay for them or put up with them. Where were you? When we tried to address our legitimate safety concerns in public and we were dismissed as 'disgruntled employees' or 'union agitators' by the FAA and the media then punished by our employers, where were you? I still remember seeing one elderly gentleman just livid when he was not allowed to carry his WWII souvenir samurai sword on board a flight and can't count the times I saw people with various forms of knives passed through security. Where were you?

If you feel there is, to use your term, a "serious lack of security problem" at NWA then perhaps you will be so kind as to specifically detail what these alleged problems are? No more vague statements, no more condescending platitudes, just the facts. We're waiting...

 

[Trip Confirmed]

"We were told by both the airlines and the government that increased security was just not cost effective - that the passengers were just not willing to pay for them or put up with them. ? When we tried to address our legitimate safety concerns in public and we were dismissed as 'disgruntled employees' or 'union agitators' by the FAA and the media then punished by our employers "

h34r:

We were told to shut up like good little sheep, or it would affect our paycheck. So we shut up.

Well it seems you were told to shut up. And you did. Poopie on what might happen, gotta keep that paycheck coming in.

Stop the WHERE WERE YOU nonsense. YOU are the ones responsible for this. If you want to kiss the "whatever" just to save your paycheck and benefits, then keep kissing it.

But get off my case about "where were you".

YOU are the ones who can do something, not me. I DON"T WORK FOR YOUR AIRLINE!!!

HELLO!!!


And as an aside, millions of Americans WOULD pay more to have an ELAL type security system.

They are afraid, with good reason. They are getting NADA from US carriers today, and Annie Jacobsen and eight others are about to blow that little balloon sky high.


But if it's a choice of one no security airline or another, yes, they will go with the lowest fare.


It's time you got off MY case, and got the employees together. I'd suggest you start with the ones who value their lives more than 'not cost effective'.

As to your next question/statement...


If you feel there is, to use your term, a "serious lack of security problem" at NWA then perhaps you will be so kind as to specifically detail what these alleged problems are? No more vague statements, no more condescending platitudes, just the facts. We're waiting...


MY answer?

NWA 327. 29 June, 2004. See over 183,00 websites currently discussing it.

Clear enough? Still consider it vague? With at least 183,000 people disagreeing? That's assuming one person per website?

Alleged problems,vague statements, and condescending platitudes, my rear.

Good Lord,

THIS is an example of the people who hold our lives in their hands when we fly NWA?

 

[Trip Confirmed]

And here's the real statement American flyers, from a NWA employee, in his own words.
---------------

I've already pointed out that some of the most ardent NWA haters are on its payroll

-------------



This leaves nothing left to say, does it? This is really spooky.
Do you feel secure on an NWA flight?

NWA 327 passengers on June 29th didn't. How about you?

Is NWA your only choice for that trip?

 

[Trip Confirmed]

can't count the times I saw people with various forms of knives passed through security.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TELLING THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT YOU SAW THIS AND DID NOTHING.

AND YOUR EMPLOYEE NUMBER IS?

 

[Trip Confirmed]

can't count the times I saw people with various forms of knives passed through security.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TELLING THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT YOU SAW THIS AND DID NOTHING.

AND YOUR EMPLOYEE NUMBER IS?

[post="166689"][/post]​

 

[Trip Confirmed]

Boy, I'm a bit slow out of the gate today.

Did I just read a post from a traceable employee stating that he's seen people with knives pass through security, and he did nothing?


I won't be posting here for a bit. I now have bigger things to attend to.


And believe me, I can and will.

 

[NWA/AMT]

We were told to shut up like good little sheep, or it would affect our paycheck. So we shut up.

Far from it. We found nobody was listening. Get it? NO-BODY! We found the 'passenger advocacy' organizations completely uninterested in, indeed hostile to, our actions because they felt it would 'inconvenience' their members. We were told, by instant experts like yourself, that the biggest problems facing the airlines were high fares and overcrowding. We didn't shut up; you just weren't listening. We did our jobs then and we continue to do them now. It's just that you weren't helping then just as you're not helping now. Where were you?

Stop the WHERE WERE YOU nonsense. YOU are the ones responsible for this. If you want to kiss the "whatever" just to save your paycheck and benefits, then keep kissing it.

Feeling a little guilty, are you?. Rather than focus on real issues you choose to make vague accusations about the ones who ARE doing something about aviation security. I will continue to ask 'Where were you" as long as your only contribution to the issue is to complain about a flight where nothing actually happened. You have admitted that you know nothing about aviation security and for all you or Ms. Jacobsen know there could have been a team of Navy SEALs on board that aircraft; the only thing we know for sure is that you weren't doing anything about it. Where were you?

YOU are the ones who can do something, not me. I DON"T WORK FOR YOUR AIRLINE!!!

Thank God! Then be so kind as to not tell its employees how to do their jobs since you admit you have no idea what those jobs are. Instead of playing Chicken Little, take some time from your self-appointed anti-NWA crusade to write to your elected representatives and detail your concerns. Perhaps educating yourself about the real issues, like which government agency is responsible for approving every airline security plan, including crew reactions to suspicious activity on board aircraft, would be a good start.

NWA 327. 29 June, 2004. See over 183,00 websites currently discussing it

As usual you fail to comprehend: I don't consider the issue vague, just your understanding of it and contribution to it. Quoting site statistics isn't very impressive since at least as many web sites are discussing UFOs. Admit it, despite Ms. Jacobsens paranoia, both the TSA and the FBI found nothing happened. Since nothing happened, what would you have had NWA do differently? Be specific for a change, it'll be refreshing.

This leaves nothing left to say, does it? This is really spooky.

Like everyone at every company loves the company they work for? More vague platitudes and feigned indignation from Trip Cancelled, what a surprise. Your continued attempts to scare passengers away from NWA is particularly ridiculous when you consider that all US airlines must leave all security issues up to the TSA. You can't even get mad at the right entity...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TELLING THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT YOU SAW THIS AND DID NOTHING.

I never said I did nothing; as I've repeatedly attempted to explain in a manner you can comprehend: before 9/11 we complained and NOBODY CARED! How much clearer can I be? The average passenger felt their need to take their various sharp implements was more important than any security issue; the FAA didn't care and the airlines didn't want to hear it. Do you still not understand that the weapons used by the terrorists on 9/11 were, except for the pepper spray, perfectly legal for carriage on board our aircraft? Where were you?

AND YOUR EMPLOYEE NUMBER IS?

None of your miserable, witch-hunting business. Threatening to trace me doesn't scare me - my pre-9/11 objections to the level of security that then existed are a matter of record that I doubt the authorities wish to bring to light. Where were you?

I won't be posting here for a bit. I now have bigger things to attend to.

Perhaps that's best as you've even taken to quoting yourself. If your concern for aviation security is so strong the TSA is hiring. Give up the role of arm chair quarterback and get involved. Rather than bemoaning some vague alleged failure you can't even articulate, get involved. If you feel you have a REAL contribution to make, then make it. Then I won't have to ask where you were.

We're waiting...

 

[Trip Confirmed]

"We're waiting..." says the last poster..........

Take your inane ramblings and explain them to the government security officials and to your corporate offices.

As an airline employee, I'd guess that you'd understand one thing.


You shoot off your mouth verbally or on the web, you may have to answer for it.

You clearly stated that you've seen people carrying knives onboard commercial aircraft.

I hope you have the backup to prove you screamed for all available security the very second you saw it.

Let me assure you, you WILL be explaining within the next few weeks, if not sooner.

If your employer decides to terminate your employment, then that would be their decision, wouldn't it?

My guess is that their major problem with you would be your statement that you've seen knives carried aboard THEIR commercial aircraft.

What they do is not my business. But I do plan to let the world see your posts.

You can count on that..


You may end up being Annie Jacobsen #2.


Will your supervisor be happy?

Will your family be happy?

Do you have a prayer of having a job 3 months from now?

 

[NWA/AMT]

I won't be posting here for a bit. I now have bigger things to attend to.

Apparently not. Maybe Bigfoot went into hiding again.

Take your inane ramblings and explain them to the government security officials and to your corporate offices.

Far from being 'inane', my 'ramblings' have served to highlight just how little you have to add to the discussion of the issue of airline safety and expose your anti-NWA crusade for what it is - an uninformed rant about issues you only dimly comprehend but nonetheless feel qualified to expound upon. One need only witness your now nearly-incoherent state and your avoidance of the real issues to verify that bringing your true motives to light has shown your faux indignation for what it is: a personal vendetta against NWA and all its employees.

You shoot off your mouth verbally or on the web, you may have to answer for it.

Blah, Blah, Blah......

Ohhh......threats.....that's so much easier than dealing with things like facts. Well, sorry to disappoint you but I did file my concerns, in writing, with the proper authorities, and kept the proof. Think they'll want to discuss that on CNN?

If you'd bothered to pause in your self-appointed crusade you would have noticed that the incidents I'm talking about were pre-9/11, and that the knives in question were legal at the time, but don't let that stop you from trying to threaten me. Just remember that once you go to the authorities I will know your name and, when they find I have been telling the truth, you will be subject to civil court action and I look forward to filing suit against you. I'm just surprised that NWA hasn't done it already on their own. Threats don't impress me nor does your feigned indignation. Once again, for the record; Yes, I did report my concerns about security, in writing. Where were you?

What they do is not my business. But I do plan to let the world see your posts.

If what they do is not your business then why are you pursuing your crusade against them? As for my comments, just make sure they get to read yours as well so they can have a good laugh. Maybe they can get you to explain what it is that you think NWA did or did not do on that flight or get you to discuss any other issue of substance.

Will your supervisor be happy? Will your family be happy?

They're quite happy, thanks for asking. My supervisor and co-workers have been enjoying your posts for over a week now and agree with my posts. So far the only one unhappy is you and you still can't manage to figure out or explain why that is.

Do you have a prayer of having a job 3 months from now?

Count on it, you brave little thug you, count on it.

Meanwhile, back to issues of substance:

Let me lay out the questions you're avoiding so far:

1) What do you allege that the NWA crew on Ms. Jacobsen's flight did or did not do that has you so upset? What part about the TSA and FBI assessment of their actions do you disagree with?

2) What TSA regulation did NWA or its employees violate on the flight in questionor on any other flight?

3) What have you, as a passenger, done to further the cause of aviation safety? Have you expressed your concerns to the TSA? Your elected representatives?

4) Have you attempted to educate yourself about aviation security or have you confined yourself to vague ramblings and threatening airline employees who HAVE been working to improve airline safety?

5) Did you expect to cast aspersions on my fellow employees, people who work hard every day to insure our passengers are safe from REAL threats, and not be called on it?

6) Where were you?

We're waiting...

 

[Harry Callahan]

First of all I only know what I've read,(maybe a pilot can chime in here) but what I fail to understand is why the capt. chose to leave in the first place with those people on board ? Or even after departure land at the nearest airport feasable ?

 

[NWA/AMT]

First of all I only know what I've read,(maybe a pilot can chime in here) but what I fail to understand is why the capt. chose to leave in the first place with those people on board ? Or even after departure land at the nearest airport feasable ?

[post="166795"][/post]​

After 9/11 several airlines did allow flight crews to decide whether passengers of arabic descent were to be allowed to travel on a particular flight or not. In each case where the crews decided to remove arabic passengers, the airlines were sued and either settled or lost. It seems that discriminating against people because of their race or religion is against the law, they actually have to commit a crime.

As for diversion, if there were indeed FAMs on board - something that the TSA will wisely neither confirm or deny - the captain had no need to divert as long as the passengers in question were only acting suspicious. If they had tried anything all the captain had to do was initiate a rapid descent and they, along with anyone else not belted in, would have been nailed to the ceiling then slammed to the floor rather hard. Physics are on our side, that's why they tell you to keep your seatbelts fastened.

Some of the important points that seem to be getting lost in all the hype over this incident is that:

1) At no point was the flight deck integrity threatened or compromised.

2) Considering the number of arabic names on the passenger manifest there may have been more air marshalls on board than arabs for all we know. Wisely, the TSA wouldn't tell us if there were.