The TWU AAdvantage

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 143 PM FWAAA wrote:


Look for the hourly wage numbers at other airlines to decrease in the coming years as other airlines force their employees to work for AA-type wages.

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Exactly. We are as we have always been, The Industry Leader for concessions. Non-union mechanics do better than TWU represented mechanics.

 

[LaBradford22]

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On 7/29/2003 143 PM FWAAA wrote:

So mechanics at DL make more money than at AMFA-represented UAL, more money than at TWU-represented AA, and more money than at IBT-represented CO.

Is it possible that pay is more a function of which airline employs you and less a function of the union to which you pay dues? NW has plenty of cash (but is losing money) and WN is making money - and their mechanics make more money. What a surprise.

Look for the hourly wage numbers at other airlines to decrease in the coming years as other airlines force their employees to work for AA-type wages.

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But, FWAAA, haven't you heard? AMFA is the cure for all of the world's ills!

 

[Bob Owens]

Industry Wage and benefits

Mechanic 12 years or longer 2 Licenses 2[sup]nd[/sup] shift
Compensation

Airline & Union Base Rate License Pr 2 Shift Pr Longevity (12 yrs). Total/ Hour Total/year
Southwest-IBT AMFA $31.00 $4.00 $.56 $1.30 $36.86 $76,668.80
Northwest- AMFA $29.70 $4.30 $.51 $0.12 $34.63 $72,030.40
Delta- None $29.02 $4.00 $.51 $0.36 $33.89 $70,491.20
Continental- IBT $28.30 $3.50 $.51 $1.00 $33.31 $69,284.80
United-IAM AMFA $25.00 $5.23 $.53 $0.30 $31.06 $64,604.80
American- TWU $25.25 $5.00 $0.01 $0.00 $30.26 $62,940.80
Benifits
Airline & Union Paid Holidays Paid sick days Paid Vacation Contract Length
Southwest -IBT AMFA 12 12 1-5 year - 2 weeks 3 years(2005)
5-10 years - 3 weeks.
10-18 years - 4 weeks
18 years - 5 weeks
Northwest- AMFA 10 12 1-4years - 2 weeks 5 years

4-9 years - 3 weeks (2005)
9-16 years - 4 weeks
16-24 years - 5 weeks
24-29 years - 6 weeks
29 years - 7 weeks


Delta -None 11 10 Weeks a year 1-5 years - 2 weeks No Contract
6-11 years - 3 weeks
12-17 years - 4 weeks
18 years - 5 weeks

Continental -IBT 10 12 1 year - 1 week 4 years
1-4 years - 2 weeks (2006)
5-9 years - 3 weeks
10-16 years - 4 weeks
17-24 years - 5 weeks
28-29 years - 6 weeks
30 years - 7 weeks
United -IAM AMFA 10 12 1-4years - 2 weeks

&n
bsp; 4-9 years - 3 weeks
9-16 years - 4 weeks
16-24 years - 5 weeks
24-29 years - 6 weeks
29 years - 7 weeks

American -TWU 5 4 (2 @ 50%, 3 at full pay) 1-5 years - 1week 5 years
5-10 years - 2 weeks
10-17 years - 3 weeks
&nbs
p; 17-25 years - 4 weeks
25-30 years - 5 weeks
30 years - 6 weeks


Dec.31 2008


American Airlines Mechanics are the lowest paid of the top 6 Airlines
American Airlines Mechanics have less vacation time than the top 6 Airlines, up to 5 years we have only 1 week whereas the other Airlines have at least 2 weeks at 4 years.
The top 6 Airlines all have at least 12 paid sick days a year except American Airlines Mechanics we have 3 at full pay and 2 at 50% pay at each occurrence !!

The top 6 Airlines all have at least 10 holidays a year except American Airlines Mechanics we have 5 holidays a year. However, at the company's discretion we may not have ANY paid holidays. Instead the company can make us work the additional 8.5 hours on all the so called holidays for an additional 4 hours of pay per 'Holiday, in other words for half pay.

When you consider that Continental went BK twice, Northwest once, along with United, but they are all making more than us you have to wonder, was BK the worst possible thing that could have happened to us or is Jim Little the worst thing that could possibly happen to us?

 

[FWAAA]

The only airline listed above where the AMFA negotiated the current contract is NW, and that was pre-September 11. Who knows how that deal would turn out today?

If I were looking for the clear winner in the High Wages for Mechanics Category, hands down it would be the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.

Why? They negotiated the great contract at WN last year (post-September 11). Industry-Leading wages.

Why else? They negotiated the post-September 11 contract at CO (finalized in 2002 at higher wages than at UAL or AA).

Based on the numbers above, the IBT puts all other airline mechanics unions to shame - no others come close to delivering for their membership. How come the IBT was tossed at WN? Do the guys at WN think they could have it any better?

 

[FWAAA]

So mechanics at DL make more money than at AMFA-represented UAL, more money than at TWU-represented AA, and more money than at IBT-represented CO.

Is it possible that pay is more a function of which airline employs you and less a function of the union to which you pay dues? NW has plenty of cash (but is losing money) and WN is making money - and their mechanics make more money. What a surprise.

Look for the hourly wage numbers at other airlines to decrease in the coming years as other airlines force their employees to work for AA-type wages.

 

[FWAAA]

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On 7/29/2003 3:17:46 PM Bob Owens wrote:

UPS was left off the list as well because as the company/union tells us "they are cargo" but I think that they are over the $40/hr mark. They too are IBT but from the mechanics I've spoken to over there, they want AMFA too.
You just dont get it, mechanics want to be in a union of mechanics, just like the pilots are in unions of pilots.
You can spout all your excuses but the fact remains that mechanics represented by the TWU and employed by AA are getting ripped off. There is no reason why we should be getting so much less than all those other carriers. 
​

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You're right about that - I don't get it. If I were an airplane mechanic, and the only thing that mattered to me was my hourly wage, then I'd go with the proven winner, even if it was the International Brotherhood of Floral Arrangers and Hairdressers.

No reason that you should have a lower hourly wage than any of the other carriers? None at all? All airplane mechanics should make the same hourly wage?

Should all airplane mechanics' contract be identical? Should you all have the same work rules? The same health plan and same retirement? How come?

Even the UAW members at GM, Ford and Chrysler make different wages.

Should all airplane tickets cost the same, as well?

You're right - I don't get it.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 3:30:14 PM FWAAA wrote:

You're right about that - I don't get it. If I were an airplane mechanic, and the only thing that mattered to me was my hourly wage, then I'd go with the proven winner, even if it was the International Brotherhood of Floral Arrangers and Hairdressers.

The union that we belong to is an extension of our professional identity. How does a union that has nothing to do with aviation bolster the professional image of a mechanic or any other airline worker? Should lawyers belong to The International Brotherhood of Floral Arrangers and Hairdressers? How about Doctors, Plumbers, Electricians, or Pilots? Its more than just the money.​

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 2:53:01 PM FWAAA wrote:

The only airline listed above where the AMFA negotiated the current contract is NW, and that was pre-September 11. Who knows how that deal would turn out today?

If I were looking for the clear winner in the High Wages for Mechanics Category, hands down it would be the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.

Why? They negotiated the great contract at WN last year (post-September 11). Industry-Leading wages.

Why else? They negotiated the post-September 11 contract at CO (finalized in 2002 at higher wages than at UAL or AA).

Based on the numbers above, the IBT puts all other airline mechanics unions to shame - no others come close to delivering for their membership. How come the IBT was tossed at WN? Do the guys at WN think they could have it any better?

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UPS was left off the list as well because as the company/union tells us "they are cargo" but I think that they are over the $40/hr mark. They too are IBT but from the mechanics I've spoken to over there, they want AMFA too.
You just dont get it, mechanics want to be in a union of mechanics, just like the pilots are in unions of pilots.
You can spout all your excuses but the fact remains that mechanics represented by the TWU and employed by AA are getting ripped off. There is no reason why we should be getting so much less than all those other carriers.
Maybe the IBT should try and get on the ballott? So fill out a green card for an election. If there is an election, that was initiated by AMFA is there anything stopping the IBT from trying to get on the ballott? One thing that is undeniable, Jim Little brokered the worst deal in the industry under better conditions than the IAM faced at UAL. UAL mechanics voted out the IAM . There is no way we can get rid of Little other than voting out the entire TWU. What should our next move be? To stay with Little, who still insists that we are doing better than everybody else, or try and regroup with the mechanics at UAL so nothing like this will ever happen again?
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[FrugalFlyer]

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On 7/29/2003 3:39:14 PM Bob Owens wrote:
The union that we belong to is an extension of our professional identity. How does a union that has nothing to do with aviation bolster the professional image of a mechanic or any other airline worker?
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Why do you need a union to bolster the professional image of a mechanic or any other airline worker? Can't you do that yourself? Whatever happenned to personal responsibility?

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 7/29/2003 1:32:45 PM Bob Owens wrote:
American Airlines Mechanics are the lowest paid of the top 6 Airlines

American Airlines Mechanics have less vacation time than the top 6 Airlines, up to 5 years we have only 1 week whereas the other Airlines have at least 2 weeks at 4 years.

The top 6 Airlines all have at least 12 paid sick days a year except American Airlines Mechanics we have 3 at full pay and 2 at 50% pay at each occurrence !!



The top 6 Airlines all have at least 10 holidays a year except American Airlines Mechanics we have 5 holidays a year. However, at the company's discretion we may not have ANY paid holidays. Instead the company can make us work the additional 8.5 hours on all the so called holidays for an additional 4 hours of pay per 'Holiday", in other words for half pay.


 When you consider that Continental went BK twice, Northwest once, along with United, but they are all making more than us you have to wonder, was BK the worst possible thing that could have happened to us or is Jim Little the worst thing that could possibly happen to us?
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I guess what you're trying to say is that working at AA sucks?
Why not then apply at one of the other top 6 airlines?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 3:30:14 PM FWAAA wrote:


No reason that you should have a lower hourly wage than any of the other carriers? None at all? All airplane mechanics should make the same hourly wage?

Should all airplane mechanics' contract be identical? Should you all have the same work rules? The same health plan and same retirement? How come?
All aircraft Mechanics contracts should be negotiated by aircraft mechanics, not a baggage handler/dispatcher.

Even the UAW members at GM, Ford and Chrysler make different wages.
The autoworkers do not have a Bus driver appoint their negotiators. They get more accountability. We get NO accountability.

Should all airplane tickets cost the same, as well?
Thats up to the airlines.

You're right - I don't get it.
That doesnt suprise me.

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​

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 4:38:33 PM FWAAA wrote:

But if you're gonna beat the TWU, you may need to do better than simply point out to your members how well the Teamsters have performed during crunch time.

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Didnt I do that?
Who brought up UPS?

 

[RV4]

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On 7/29/2003 4:17:12 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:


Why do you need a union to bolster the professional image of a mechanic or any other airline worker? Can't you do that yourself? Whatever happenned to personal responsibility?

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Read this:
[url="http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archive/PEBStat_Trans_Exh/peb320nw.PDF"]http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archi...xh/peb320nw.PDF[/URL]

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/29/2003 5:00:39 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:


I agree with FWAAA,


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You would.
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[FrugalFlyer]

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On 7/29/2003 432 PM RV4 wrote:

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On 7/29/2003 4:17:12 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:

Why do you need a union to bolster the professional image of a mechanic or any other airline worker?  Can't you do that yourself?  Whatever happenned to personal responsibility?

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Read this:

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archi...xh/peb320nw.PDF

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RV4,
Honestly, I was going to read it, but the document / PDF file shows up as 143 pages so I didn't bother (I'm too lazy to).
Can you give me the gist of it in a couple sentences, because I'm curious why one needs a union to bolster the image of professionalism?