I had the pleasure of talking to some friends outside the airline industry this morning. In asking how I and AA were doing lately we got on the subject of why the airlines are doing so poorly. One person in general hated AA and the attitudes of the employees. He stated that in his opinion the airlines problems directly associated with the unions. He believes that the first thing management should do is rid itself of the unions. The only reason he flies AA is because his company has a contract with AA and he enjoys the benefits of the Oneworld Alliance. My question to him was, did he hear anything about how the employees were asked to give up billions of dollars to save the company from BK while management gave itself millions of dollars in bonuses?. I assured him unions would not be necessary it we could have faith in management and that they would ever treat us fairly. But on to why he hated AA. This mans opinion is that AA has the worst employees of any of the major airlines. Bad attitudes, etc. My question is where do you find enough quality people to run an airlines this big. The unions don't do the hiring but are blamed as a group for any bad apples that happen to cross the pax paths. I know I do my job and have never walked away from a situation where I didn't consider that someone spent money on what I was expected to deliver. I know and have had the pleasure of working with tons of other professionals in the airlines industry that do the same. But can AA or any company this large be able to find enough "good" help? Are we too big? Everyone raves about Jetblue and how well they are at customer service. But if Jetblue were to expand to the size of AA would they still be able to maintain the customer service level? One of the issues my friend had was how no food is the norm rather than the exception. Is food in coach really a major factor to you? If so how much of a paycut should the employees take to maintain meals in coach? AA has a long way to go change this one mans perception. I am positive there are lots of other people out their that have similar views. I'm not silly enough to think that AA will ever satisfy everyone but it does concern me that we have to be able to maintain our business pax and their perception of AA. Again I ask, are we too big?
The Problem With Being Big
- Thread starter MiAAmi
- Start date
skyangelnflight
Member
- Aug 22, 2002
- 83
- 0
American's Employees Respond to Challenge With Heart
FORT WORTH, Texas, Aug 18, 2003 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Lots of
stories made the news during the recent blackout in the northeast United
States and Canada. Unfortunately, missed in the coverage were the
stories of kindness and, in some cases, heroic efforts of airline
employees helping customers.
"There were tremendous acts of genuine concern all around the American
Airlines system," said Gerard Arpey, American's president and CEO.
"Faced with a situation not of their making, our people rose to the
challenge and responded in ways that deserve our accolades.
"At American, as I'm sure was the case at many other airlines serving
airports impacted by the blackout, our employees often went above and
beyond to help customers," Arpey said. "We believe these individuals
deserve some public recognition for their outstanding efforts."
FORT WORTH, Texas, Aug 18, 2003 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Lots of
stories made the news during the recent blackout in the northeast United
States and Canada. Unfortunately, missed in the coverage were the
stories of kindness and, in some cases, heroic efforts of airline
employees helping customers.
"There were tremendous acts of genuine concern all around the American
Airlines system," said Gerard Arpey, American's president and CEO.
"Faced with a situation not of their making, our people rose to the
challenge and responded in ways that deserve our accolades.
"At American, as I'm sure was the case at many other airlines serving
airports impacted by the blackout, our employees often went above and
beyond to help customers," Arpey said. "We believe these individuals
deserve some public recognition for their outstanding efforts."
AC AA LA FA
Veteran
now if we could just bottle and sell that "feeling"....wouldnt this be a nice place to work...
It takes the worst of times around here- to see others suffer and be frustrated to no end-to bring out the best in us....as trite as it may sound...I fear it is our reality at AA these days.......
It takes the worst of times around here- to see others suffer and be frustrated to no end-to bring out the best in us....as trite as it may sound...I fear it is our reality at AA these days.......
Skyyggoddess
Advanced
- Jun 28, 2003
- 108
- 0
It all starts at the top. If you have honorable leadership that is customer focused and employee friendly, then it trickles down...even to the supervisor level. They are led by example. If the top is corrupt and there is no respect for the labor force, then there will always be an attitude problem. This is so basic and so simple, yet we haven't had a leader in over 35 years that gets it.MiAAmi said:
I was not fortunate enough to have worked for the late C.R. Smith, but I did have him on a flight once. He was beloved as a CEO because he honestly liked his employees and treated them with respect.
I have had supervisors (a few in my career) who were fair. I think that's all we ask...is fairness.
Like you, no matter how rotten the company is or the situation at the company is, I have never taken it out on my passengers. They pay my salary and they have paid for a service. They deserve the best. Anything less, reflects badly on me, as well.
Terry
IDF
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,224
- 1,427
I had the pleasure of talking to some friends outside the airline industry this morning. In asking how I and AA were doing lately we got on the subject of why the airlines are doing so poorly. One person in general hated AA and the attitudes of the employees.
As a customer, I have never encountered dour attitudes from the employees. Reading these message boards you see it sometimes, but on your planes and in your airports, I just haven't seen it
He stated that in his opinion the airlines problems directly associated with the unions. He believes that the first thing management should do is rid itself of the unions. The only reason he flies AA is because his company has a contract with AA and he enjoys the benefits of the Oneworld Alliance.
His opinion is shared by many (although many might find it hard to believe that I don't share that opinion). I suppose it goes back to the summer from hell with pilots and the threats of CHAOS(tm) from flight attendants. Does this person fly Delta at all? Because Delta is the largest predominantly non-union carrier, and I have had far more issues with service on Delta than I have on any other unionized carrier. If unions are the problem, he should push his company to fly Delta for the service provided by a non union workforce
My question to him was, did he hear anything about how the employees were asked to give up billions of dollars to save the company from BK while management gave itself millions of dollars in bonuses?.
It most likely fell on deaf ears since the company he works for most likely limited pay increases to 3% and gave their executives massive bonuses, or laid off thousands of employees and provided executives with massive bonuses. In other words, the airlines are not unique in this respect.
I assured him unions would not be necessary it we could have faith in management and that they would ever treat us fairly.
Gotta disagree. Southwest has had remarkable labor/managment relations...yet they are one of the most heavily unionized workforces at any airline. They didn't lay off a single person, or as for a single pay or benefit cut in the months (years) following 9/11, yet some in the flight attendants union are trying to paint them as horribly unfair.
But on to why he hated AA. This mans opinion is that AA has the worst employees of any of the major airlines. Bad attitudes, etc. My question is where do you find enough quality people to run an airlines this big. The unions don't do the hiring but are blamed as a group for any bad apples that happen to cross the pax paths.
The only time I can think of that anyone would blame the unions for the bad apples is if they ever hear the "It's not my job" line. Airlines are a service industry, and everyone that the public comes in contact with is representative of the company as a whole. One person having a bad day will make some people think that the entire airline is that way. Those who think that way are pretty much ignorant. Now, some might blame the unions when it comes to "protecting" a person with a bad attitude - you know, making it difficult to fire someone who is making the entire company look bad.
I know I do my job and have never walked away from a situation where I didn't consider that someone spent money on what I was expected to deliver. I know and have had the pleasure of working with tons of other professionals in the airlines industry that do the same. But can AA or any company this large be able to find enough "good" help? Are we too big?
Good help is out there, regardless of how big you are. The problem is that one person with an attitude can spread ill will like a cancer. Imagine being cooped up in a metal tube with your coworker constantly whining about how utterly horrible this company is. Those folks should be encouraged to leave. Money has never and will never buy happiness. Urge them to leave on their own accord, or allow the company the lattitude to remove the "cancer" without protecting them. In today's job market, there are a lot of people who would work for an airline just so they could smell the Jet-A.
Everyone raves about Jetblue and how well they are at customer service. But if Jetblue were to expand to the size of AA would they still be able to maintain the customer service level?
Southwest, while not being as large as AA, is still pretty big - and their customer service level is admired. I believe Herb Kelleher calls it the "esprit de corps". I don't know if an "old dog" can be taught that new trick....labor will not trust any managment as far as they can throw them...without that trust - it's really hard to produce any esprit. I think JetBlue is going to unionize eventually, but if they are able to maintain the esprit that they have - then yes, they too will be able to maintain high service levels.
One of the issues my friend had was how no food is the norm rather than the exception. Is food in coach really a major factor to you?
It's odd how food is brought up so often, yet not that long ago "airline food" was the punch line of many a comic's jokes. So people throw up food (no pun intended) as yet another example of poor service. I haven't had a meal in coach on any flight less than four hours in 15 years, so it isn't like this lack of meal service is anything new.
If so how much of a paycut should the employees take to maintain meals in coach? AA has a long way to go change this one mans perception.
You shouldn't have to take a paycut to serve food...as "tacky" as it sounds, CHARGE for those who want to eat. Ask this man that if he was paying for his tickets with HIS money, would he be willing to pay more to cover the costs of provisioning food, or would he want a more affordable fare to save him money. If he says he'd be willing to pay more, then suggest that he express this to his employer, who is paying for his ticket so that they can renegtiate a contract that will allow him to eat. Also ask this man if he typically upgrades to first class from his company negotiated coach fare, using his "premium" FF status - after all, ONeworld is so important to him, but truth be told, if his company negotiated a better deal with Southwest, then he'd better learn to be happy on Southwest or else buy his own ticket on someone else. Ask if he would balk at having to pay a surcharge to upgrade. This man who is so disgusted with AA most likely spends very little of his money with your company. He has someone else buy his tickets, then he gets the miles to become "elite", and then he "expects" perks because he flies a lot. And when he can't get a First Class seat, he talks about how important food in coach is.
I am positive there are lots of other people out their that have similar views. I'm not silly enough to think that AA will ever satisfy everyone but it does concern me that we have to be able to maintain our business pax and their perception of AA. Again I ask, are we too big?
No - you're not too big. YOu need to woo the business who is paying for the ticket...not the user of said ticket. If the user has a problem with no meals, the in should be an issue between the user and his employer...not the airline.
As a customer, I have never encountered dour attitudes from the employees. Reading these message boards you see it sometimes, but on your planes and in your airports, I just haven't seen it
He stated that in his opinion the airlines problems directly associated with the unions. He believes that the first thing management should do is rid itself of the unions. The only reason he flies AA is because his company has a contract with AA and he enjoys the benefits of the Oneworld Alliance.
His opinion is shared by many (although many might find it hard to believe that I don't share that opinion). I suppose it goes back to the summer from hell with pilots and the threats of CHAOS(tm) from flight attendants. Does this person fly Delta at all? Because Delta is the largest predominantly non-union carrier, and I have had far more issues with service on Delta than I have on any other unionized carrier. If unions are the problem, he should push his company to fly Delta for the service provided by a non union workforce
My question to him was, did he hear anything about how the employees were asked to give up billions of dollars to save the company from BK while management gave itself millions of dollars in bonuses?.
It most likely fell on deaf ears since the company he works for most likely limited pay increases to 3% and gave their executives massive bonuses, or laid off thousands of employees and provided executives with massive bonuses. In other words, the airlines are not unique in this respect.
I assured him unions would not be necessary it we could have faith in management and that they would ever treat us fairly.
Gotta disagree. Southwest has had remarkable labor/managment relations...yet they are one of the most heavily unionized workforces at any airline. They didn't lay off a single person, or as for a single pay or benefit cut in the months (years) following 9/11, yet some in the flight attendants union are trying to paint them as horribly unfair.
But on to why he hated AA. This mans opinion is that AA has the worst employees of any of the major airlines. Bad attitudes, etc. My question is where do you find enough quality people to run an airlines this big. The unions don't do the hiring but are blamed as a group for any bad apples that happen to cross the pax paths.
The only time I can think of that anyone would blame the unions for the bad apples is if they ever hear the "It's not my job" line. Airlines are a service industry, and everyone that the public comes in contact with is representative of the company as a whole. One person having a bad day will make some people think that the entire airline is that way. Those who think that way are pretty much ignorant. Now, some might blame the unions when it comes to "protecting" a person with a bad attitude - you know, making it difficult to fire someone who is making the entire company look bad.
I know I do my job and have never walked away from a situation where I didn't consider that someone spent money on what I was expected to deliver. I know and have had the pleasure of working with tons of other professionals in the airlines industry that do the same. But can AA or any company this large be able to find enough "good" help? Are we too big?
Good help is out there, regardless of how big you are. The problem is that one person with an attitude can spread ill will like a cancer. Imagine being cooped up in a metal tube with your coworker constantly whining about how utterly horrible this company is. Those folks should be encouraged to leave. Money has never and will never buy happiness. Urge them to leave on their own accord, or allow the company the lattitude to remove the "cancer" without protecting them. In today's job market, there are a lot of people who would work for an airline just so they could smell the Jet-A.
Everyone raves about Jetblue and how well they are at customer service. But if Jetblue were to expand to the size of AA would they still be able to maintain the customer service level?
Southwest, while not being as large as AA, is still pretty big - and their customer service level is admired. I believe Herb Kelleher calls it the "esprit de corps". I don't know if an "old dog" can be taught that new trick....labor will not trust any managment as far as they can throw them...without that trust - it's really hard to produce any esprit. I think JetBlue is going to unionize eventually, but if they are able to maintain the esprit that they have - then yes, they too will be able to maintain high service levels.
One of the issues my friend had was how no food is the norm rather than the exception. Is food in coach really a major factor to you?
It's odd how food is brought up so often, yet not that long ago "airline food" was the punch line of many a comic's jokes. So people throw up food (no pun intended) as yet another example of poor service. I haven't had a meal in coach on any flight less than four hours in 15 years, so it isn't like this lack of meal service is anything new.
If so how much of a paycut should the employees take to maintain meals in coach? AA has a long way to go change this one mans perception.
You shouldn't have to take a paycut to serve food...as "tacky" as it sounds, CHARGE for those who want to eat. Ask this man that if he was paying for his tickets with HIS money, would he be willing to pay more to cover the costs of provisioning food, or would he want a more affordable fare to save him money. If he says he'd be willing to pay more, then suggest that he express this to his employer, who is paying for his ticket so that they can renegtiate a contract that will allow him to eat. Also ask this man if he typically upgrades to first class from his company negotiated coach fare, using his "premium" FF status - after all, ONeworld is so important to him, but truth be told, if his company negotiated a better deal with Southwest, then he'd better learn to be happy on Southwest or else buy his own ticket on someone else. Ask if he would balk at having to pay a surcharge to upgrade. This man who is so disgusted with AA most likely spends very little of his money with your company. He has someone else buy his tickets, then he gets the miles to become "elite", and then he "expects" perks because he flies a lot. And when he can't get a First Class seat, he talks about how important food in coach is.
I am positive there are lots of other people out their that have similar views. I'm not silly enough to think that AA will ever satisfy everyone but it does concern me that we have to be able to maintain our business pax and their perception of AA. Again I ask, are we too big?
No - you're not too big. YOu need to woo the business who is paying for the ticket...not the user of said ticket. If the user has a problem with no meals, the in should be an issue between the user and his employer...not the airline.
I too do not think big necessarily equates with poor attitudes. I was an admirer of AA for may years up till about the mid 80s when Crandell tried to fix prices and started "crushing" his competitors. Although AA grew big in subsequent years its employee relations seemed to suffer. AA seemed to stand for AArogant Airlines. It litigated everything. Then there was the great pilot sick out and finally Carty being chastized by the Transportation Board for his arrogant attitudes, his temper tantrum in front of Senate investigators and his lying about management perks. When AA purchased TWA I asked friends at AA about Carty, "we do not trust him" they said. After his promises to the TWA employees, they quickly soured on him too. This kind of stuff filters down through the workforce and just kills chances of good employee relations. Employees often do a great job but have a lot of negativity about the management. The greeks have a great expression for it, "a fish rots from the head."
In all my years of traveling on AA I have had bad service once in first class from JFK to CDG and watched an agent thoroughly abuse pax at ORD a few months ago. She needs a year at flagship U. That is about the same ratio of complaints I have had about UAL, TWA, DAL, NWA, EAL and US Air. Lots of great employees and a few poor ones.
For AA's sake and everybody else who has some stake in AA, I hope Arpey gives it a makeover at the top.
In all my years of traveling on AA I have had bad service once in first class from JFK to CDG and watched an agent thoroughly abuse pax at ORD a few months ago. She needs a year at flagship U. That is about the same ratio of complaints I have had about UAL, TWA, DAL, NWA, EAL and US Air. Lots of great employees and a few poor ones.
For AA's sake and everybody else who has some stake in AA, I hope Arpey gives it a makeover at the top.
