The Plan, Maybe?

[jimntx]

Best wishes,[/QUOTE]

Unemployment is 5%!!! Regardless of what the leftists like Kerry have been saying - 5% is extremely low. Oh by the way, Kerry supported and voted for NAFTA.

Ah yes, the big lie the government (and I include Dem administrations here) loves to tell. As someone who worked for Texas Employment Commission for 7 years, I know for a fact that the true unemployment rate is probably twice whatever the government says it is. The government goes out of its way to find ways to NOT include people in the unemployment rate.

1. If you have despaired of finding a job and given up, you're not unemployed.
2. If you were to lose that management job of yours and took a job sweeping floors in order to feed your children, you're not unemployed.

And, hang on to that management job of yours at all costs. I have a friend who was one of the young Turks at Halliburton in Houston (no doubt, one of your hero companies). At age 35 he had worldwide management responsibilities in the Information Technology department. In the spring of 2002, he got reorganized out of a job. Despite his willingness to go back to being a programmer if that is what it would take to get a job, he was unemployed until Oct. of 2003--over 18 months. He is working today, and as a manager, but he's traveling all the time and missing a lot of his little girl's growing up, and he's making about 30% less than what he made at Halliburton.

It could happen to you, you know. Well, no, you probably don't know. You're the type who is always totally shocked when the boss comes in and tells you to clean out your desk because you always think you're indispensable.

 

[700UW]

Do you realize WN, AA, NWA, UAL and DL all make more money then US Airways employees?

A WN mechanic will be making $42 an hour and our mechanics make $28.

WN has no part-time employees at the airport.

So tell me how it is labor?

 

[ktflyhome]

700uw: we are plain and simple getting lied to and screwed. You know this. And by the way, why do you continue to respond to Usblyboi. It is useless, pointless and a total waste of time. B)

 

[700UW]

To show the board what he really is, a shill.

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

First, if I have "put a spin" on your post, for that I am sorry....However, in this response to me you say:

PITBull wrote:
"...No one on these boards wants U to go liquidate or sell off, nor to the employees want to throw their own personal financial well being "under a bus" and accept continued work here at U at LCC wages and benefits..."

Are you saying, or are you not saying, you would rather have US Airways go under before you would accept a LCC style contract?

What I find interesting about that is that if you study some of the other working agreements there are many good things in them. We already have a crappy contract, I would wager in many way we could better by re-examining everything about our contracts, while capturing cost savings along the way.

I am a bit puzzled by this:

PITBull wrote:
"I am here, sir, to make your life absolutely miserable for the injustice you have helped create in the work place, and expose you and your plan while we are both going out the door and under the bus.

Are we clear, sir?"

I am a line employee like everyone else here, not a union rep, or management. I am "living" in fact have been living since 1989 under the toughest conditions of all...bottom reserve, something most people didn't care about, didn't want to hear about. How did I help create injustice in the workplace....by not complaining loud enough to lineholders?

Trust me, if you get your wish, unemployment, I can assure you that I will land on my feet, and be quickly employed. You see, I don't think unemployment is a good deal, so I am actively pursuing plan B, C, D, E, F, and G...I simply have no doubt they will not be better than life here; and for the vast majority, well, they will be in for a very rude awakening!

Chao, baby!

 

[UseYourHead]

Do you realize WN, AA, NWA, UAL and DL all make more money then US Airways employees?

A WN mechanic will be making $42 an hour and our mechanics make $28.

WN has no part-time employees at the airport.

So tell me how it is labor?

If this is true then you should not take a pay cut...is the staffing level the same? How does productivity measure up?

 

[PITbull]

Use Your Head,

Are YOU saying that U wants to "throw we employees under the bus" by forcing us to accept LCC wages and benefits? There is no reduction of wages and benefits?Do you know if they are planning to rescind some of those new policies that are contributing to terminating our folks?

If you are talking to me personally, I can assure you I can make the same amount if not much greater than I make now some where else. You don't know my background, as you do not know the majority of my work group.

With regard to your comments about you not being management, you slipped up in one of your posts. Last week it was brought to your attention, and many posters saw this.

I am on these boards to share my thoughts with many on these boards. No, I am not confident that there won't be a repeat of the past 2 concessions. You, on the other hand think that the posters on here are few who find that concessions again is just too outrageous for management to ask,and to use the same tactics is just so typical of who they are. You appear to be pretty confident tat given the choice the employees will do the same thing cause they can't find better work in your estimation, however, you can?

If you say you are a pilot, you fate is LCC or express. WE on the other hand, can find employment paying what we get currently get paid, $40,000 vs. your $100,000.

Something you would not want to settle for. Don't blame you either. So hopefully your group can save you. We can't.

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

Pit wrote:
Are YOU saying that U wants to "throw we employees under the bus" by forcing us to accept LCC wages and benefits? There is no reduction of wages and benefits?Do you know if they are planning to rescind some of those new policies that are contributing to terminating our folks?

The company cannot force any of us to accept LCC wages, my guess is, that is what they want...remember parity? I have no inside info on any policy changes....

Pit wrote:
With regard to your comments about you not being management, you splipped up in one of your posts. Last week it was brought to your attention, and many posters saw this.

Really, that is interesting. I have no clue what you are talking about, maybe you could post it here. Gee, if this is true, I guess I can apply at my next airline as a management type, and not a pilot?

Pit wrote:
I am on these boards to share my thoughts with many on these boards. No, I am not confident that there won't be a repeat of the past 2 concessions. You, on the other hand think that the posters on here are few who find that concessions again is just too outrageous for management to ask,and to use the same tactics is just so typical of who they are. You appear to be pretty confident tat given the choice the employees will do the same thing cause they can't find better work in your estimation, however, you can?

Let me say thank you for your participation here, it helps make this place what it is. We simply do not agree on this concept: I say most employees will be better off with further changes in our working conditions, when the alternative to that is unemloyment, while you appear to believe that not the case?

In my travels, commuting from Florida to PHL, sitting on reserve away from home, and flying international, 95% of the people I come into contact with want to keep this airline flying and not start over. It is too early to know how membership ratifaction of any agreement will go, because we don't even know any details yet. I think employees will do the right thing when the time comes, we are a smart group, and we have all been through much (The right thing may be to vote yes, however, it may also be to vote no).

As far as finding other work...life will go on, for some it won't be easy, and for others they will recover. I have interview offers coming in now...I stand firm that the best scenario will be a continuation of employment here and if you can't stand it, leaving on your own terms is the best way to go!

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Some good observations on this thread.

Get this perversity:

Republicans are creating some of their own new voters (I suspect they think), by encouraging policies that hurt wage earners. They like layoffs, because then they run for re election going for the votes of former wage earners that are now, effectively small businesses... consultants and contractors and small companies.

So, the new middle class in America is NOT going to include wage earners. B ut will be only contractors, self-employed, small business owners, etc. And a new class "foreign worker arbitrager." We better be telling our kids to create a small company to contract foreign workers to US businesses, if they want to stay in the middle class in the new American economy.

 

[Dea Certe]

Row,

Exactly so! That's what I was trying to get across! Thanks!

Dea

 

[autofixer]

Some good observations on this thread.

Get this perversity:

Republicans are creating some of their own new voters (I suspect they think), by encouraging policies that hurt wage earners. They like layoffs, because then they run for re election going for the votes of former wage earners that are now, effectively small businesses... consultants and contractors and small companies.

So, the new middle class in America is NOT going to include wage earners. B ut will be only contractors, self-employed, small business owners, etc. And a new class "foreign worker arbitrager." We better be telling our kids to create a small company to contract foreign workers to US businesses, if they want to stay in the middle class in the new American economy.

Row, It has always been that way in America. It is true, I am one of those of which you speak, albeit I am Libertarian. Organized labor was temporary. It was a reaction to the Industrial Revolution. The only areas that labor thives in today is in governmental and paragovernmental areas.

 

[bobcat]

djlndc,

I'm really confused when someone on this board says "if you don't like it why don't you quit". Why would anyone, no matter how much they hate working at US, ever quit at this point. While the uncertainty is in the air, work as much as you can in overtime and stash some of that extra money or get some bills paid off, get your ailments taken care of along with a physical, get your long needed dental work done and all of your prescriptions filled as often as allowed, and get a plan together for making money in case US shuts down operations.

Then if and when US does cease operations and you are here until the end you will get, hopefully the max in unemployment, so you will have some income while you seek another job, start your own business, or go back to school. There is no excuse for anyone right now not to have thought of a plan just in case. We have known for over 2 years that we could be out of a job at any time. There is also the possibility of severence, not likely now but who knows. Also, if anyone has the desire to go back to school it would probably be free with some nominal fees. Don't forget with every pay more money is added to your 401k. If you quit you leave with nothing.

In Dec. 2002 a large number of my co-workers were layed off for almost 2 months. They were at the bottom of the barrel in seniority. Believe it or not they made out better than anyone. They collected unemployment, had 4 major holidays off, received severance and many went back to school free of charge. They then were called back, I think, the end of Jan. 2003. They now have a paycheck, the ones that went to school are still going for free, had the holidays off and didn't have to give their severence back. Go figure! So, even though they weren't getting a regular pay check, they at least reaped some benefits.

My point is, stop the rediculous "why don't you quit" statements. I think we're all smart enough to stay and if the end comes, reap some some of those benefits while we get our lives back in order and find a new direction.

 

[bobcat]

dj, (may I call you dj?)

First, understand I love my job and do it very well. I would never have stayed in job I didn't like or working for a company I didn't support.

The Dems are creating "class envy"? I don't think so. I was raised in a very hard-line Republican household. I'm the only one who's not a registrated Republican in a large and extended family. I'm used to not listening to the crowd! For years I thought it was "thosedamndemocrats" party!

My family was very lucky during the Great Depression. No one was out of work, none of the women worked outside the home and no one went hungry. I think we were very spoiled as kids but had no idea how easy it always had been. I was told to get an education. Not so I could support myself, but so I'd be a more interesting companion. So I could "marry well" and raise a new generation.

Well, that didn't work out. I've enjoyed my independence and never had to borrow a dime from my folks. I've had some sort of job since I was 14, as it was expected in the Certe house. You want something, you earn it. There was no loafing around and we liked it that way. Still do.

I don't believe anyone is expecting a free ride. I also do volunteer work in my community and have done so since I was a kid. It was important that we contribute to society in a positive way. It's allowed me to see things I probably wouldn't have otherwise. And shaped my opinon of the world around me.

I believe we need to have an inclusive government. I don't buy into the splitting up of our citizens by race, creed or culture. I believe there's room for everyone in this rich nation our forebears created. It galls me to see the disparity between the economic groups. If one works hard, one should be rewarded for that labor fairly and justly.

What I am seeing is that it doesn't matter how hard you work, it's how well-connected you are and willing you are to play the game. I can find job satisfaction without an immorally large pay check. The size of ones bank account doesn't equate success to me. It's the quality of ones life in respect to ones family and community.

I think Corporate American culture is destroying our country. The worship of the all-mighty dollars at the expense of anything else. The cult of Celebrity worship and the need to have just the right sneakers!

I know lots of well-educated people who are out of work now. I also know a lot of people who are under-employed At the used book store near my house, everyone who works there has a Master's degree in something. It pays $8.00 an hour. These are older people who lost jobs in middle management positions.

No one it telling me this. I'm seeing this myself.

What I see happening is a country divided into those who have a lot and those who barely get by. Are they sluggards because they can't find work? I know people who have been unemployed for several years. They get by on "free lance" work. Undependable pay while they eat into their savings and retirement funds.

Hewlitt Packard has a whole crop of "independant contractors" of highly trained computer people who earn $12 an hour. No benefits, no pensions, no security. Are they lazy? No, they can't find jobs!

I am terribly worried for our country. Worse comes to worst, I can go live with my brother as the eccentric old Aunt. Listen to him rail against the "femin-nazis" and lefties.

That's the greatest thing about our country. Everyone can have an opinion, no matter how wrong-headed or ignorant it might be. But the question remains: Can we all have bread?

Dea

Hi Dea,
You're right on about "can your ulcer take it?". I've always been in perfect health until the last 2 years. I now have migraines, major stomach issues and anxiety problems and am on many different types of medication due entirely to job related stress. The majority (and I mean majority) of workers in my dept. have health issues due to this job. Everyone wonders why the call-off numbers are so high. An outside source should really be given carte blanche to employee records and report on the widespread medical issues due to stress and repetetive action work from working for US. There are actually co-workers that have panic attacks and have to leave. Of course that happens after they have been screamed at, sworn at, told that they should die a slow death by the last eight passengers, trying to keep their cool while a supervisor is breathing down their neck Maybe if it was in black and white someone at the top would realize that something is definately wrong here.

I know a number of people who have left the company in the last two years that are very happy now. They may make less money but their health benefits are the same or better, they work 9 to 5 and have a lot more time with their families, have all holidays and week-ends off, have little or no stress and have their wits about them. They may not be able to swap or have 6 weeks vacation but, they are still happy and content and actually enjoy going to work every day. They are finally relaxed!

Hope one day your ulcer disappears!

 

[PITbull]

Bobcat,

Thanks for posting the above. I thought our labor group was the only group having work related anxiety, health issues from what has ensured the last two years.

I know for a fact that the company is experiencing hight costs in anti ulcer medications and H2 inhibitors along with psychotropic meds. That is their #1 prescription costs.

Couldn't get some posters to believe how endemic these disorders have become for our group.

 

[pitguy]

bobcat,

Great posting. You have expressed yourself well. That is also how a lot of folks in Maintenance feel also.