The List Gets Longer

[PlayTheOdds]

Thank you robbed. So if there are enough engine fires to justify the cost of all these firebottles wouldn't you say that engines coming apart is an expected failure for the aircraft industry that operates thousands of engines for uncountable hours?

 

[robbedagain]

well I wouldnt say engines coming apart as much as rather say an unexpected shutdown of the engine without warning or may be a shutdown due to a major problem. i dont think engine fires are all that common.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Lets just say engine failures in general even though are rare we can safely say that they would be considerd common failures in the aviation industry as a whole simply because it is what they use on a daily basis. These are manmade machines that operate under extreme pressures and tempatures, there are tens of thousands of them out there operating on a daily basis so wouldn't you say that the odds dictate a failure?

 

[robbedagain]

well I would say that the odds are somewhere in the middle that the engine would fail. i'd say may be around 50/50 to be safe

 

[PlayTheOdds]

I wouldn't put it near that high it is probably less than a 2% chance that you will ever be on an aircraft that has an engine failure. But the point here is that engine failures are a common problem among all airlines and that an engine failure is by no means a way to determine the quality of work being provided by the scabs.

 

[The Dissident]

I wouldn't put it near that high it is probably less than a 2% chance that you will ever be on an aircraft that has an engine failure. But the point here is that engine failures are a common problem among all airlines and that an engine failure is by no means a way to determine the quality of work being provided by the scabs.

[post="310360"][/post]​

Engine failures ARE NOT a commom problem among airlines.espically with todays maintenance monitoring of engine parameters. They can see trends and diagnose problems before they become failures. The only airline that seems to be having problems with inflight engine failures is northwest and only since the end of august.

 

[robbedagain]

i wasnt sure as to what the percentage of engine failures would be. i didnt think it was high.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Come on Diss I do agree that todays engines are some really superb works of "art". Yes we do have the best engine monitoring programs in the world. Nothing is 100% that means there is a very small percentage of aircraft flying right now that is going to have some type of engine failure. It doesn't have to be the engine itself that fails to have an engine failure. Can a fuel controller going out be predicted? When a pilot writes up an engine vib gig does the company run out there and replace the engine? No, it gets inspected and ground tested if the problem cannot be found or duplicated it gets placed back into service. There could very well be problems on that next flight. An engine operating at altitude is subject to different parameters than one on the ground. If there is a problem the pilot will throttle the engine until the vibration lowers to an acceptable level or shut it down altogether. If this happens on a 747 he will continue the flight and you will never be the wiser. If this happens on a 757 if he throttled back he will probably continue the flight if he shut the engine down he will land at the nearest acceptable airport. There is a lot of behind the scene actions going on that the flying public has no idea about nor do they care.

 

[The Dissident]

Come on Diss I do agree that todays engines are some really superb works of "art". Yes we do have the best engine monitoring programs in the world. Nothing is 100% that means there is a very small percentage of aircraft flying right now that is going to have some type of engine failure. It doesn't have to be the engine itself that fails to have an engine failure. Can a fuel controller going out be predicted? When a pilot writes up an engine vib gig does the company run out there and replace the engine? No, it gets inspected and ground tested if the problem cannot be found or duplicated it gets placed back into service. There could very well be problems on that next flight. An engine operating at altitude is subject to different parameters than one on the ground. If there is a problem the pilot will throttle the engine until the vibration lowers to an acceptable level or shut it down altogether. If this happens on a 747 he will continue the flight and you will never be the wiser. If this happens on a 757 if he throttled back he will probably continue the flight if he shut the engine down he will land at the nearest acceptable airport. There is a lot of behind the scene actions going on that the flying public has no idea about nor do they care.

[post="310396"][/post]​

Quit trying to back track. you stated that engine failures are common which they are not. I happen to know for a fact that engine vibs require a high power run to diagnose the problem and most airlines will not let their aircrat fly with a vibe problem. and most of the engines today are FADEC and have no fuel control and if it does malfunction it goes into another mode- a preset program if you will that still runs the engine. some engines still have mechanical fuel controls but they rarely fail. you lack of experiance is shining brightly through.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Quit trying to back track. and most of the engines today are FADEC and have no fuel control and if it does malfunction it goes into another mode- a preset program if you will

[post="310418"][/post]​

You're funny. I am not back tracking all I am saying is that engine problems come up enough that it is considerd a common problem among the carriers. Yes every thing possible is done to keep these issues under control and the airlines have been very effective in doing so. Quit acting like engine problems are an anomoly because they are not. An engine spends 95% of its operating life in the air and when it has a problem that is the first place it is likely to show up. I like the part where you say if an engine has a vibe problem an airline will not let it fly. This statement in itself is true but when do you think the problem showed up to begin with. Do you think they all suddenly have vibe problems at the gate?

This is where your experience shines brightly.

 

[The End]

I fit was indeed a DC-9, turbine failure, is not that uncommon for JT-8D engines. It is the weak link. The End

 

[Opus]

Engine failures ARE NOT a commom problem among airlines.espically with todays maintenance monitoring of engine parameters. They can see trends and diagnose problems before they become failures. The only airline that seems to be having problems with inflight engine failures is northwest and only since the end of august.

Not true, just look at the Alaska Airlines engine incident in Canada acouple of days ago. NWA hasnt has any such incident but no one is sceaming about their union mechs being the problem. These are machines and they do break and they do require repair and NW aircraft are being repaired by competent talented mechs, oh and almost forgot arent Alaska Airlines mechs AMFA??? NO IT CANT BE SO, AMFA MECHS BLAMED FOR ANYTHING IMPOSSIBLE CANT HAPPEN THEY ARE GODS IN AVIATION...................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

engine problems come up enough that it is considerd a common problem among the carriers.

Possibly at the carriers you've worked for in the past.....

Considering the stresses, temps, etc, that the engines operate under, the engines are probably one of the most reliable components on the airplane - assuming proper maintenance and operation. One only has to look at the shut-down rate required for ETOPS to see how small the chances are of having an engine failure - after all, from JT8 to GenX, they all operate the same way.

I fit was indeed a DC-9, turbine failure, is not that uncommon for JT-8D engines. It is the weak link. The End

"Weak link" being a relative term.....

Just like any modern turbine engine, a properly maintained and operated JT8D is very reliable. In 8,000 -9,000 hours of flying JT8D's I never had an engine problem, much less a failure or shutdown. The airline I work for had maybe 1 per year flying over 200 JT8D powered airplanes with versions from the -7 to the -15 over the years.

Jim

 

[Busdrvr]

Thank you robbed. So if there are enough engine fires to justify the cost of all these firebottles wouldn't you say that engines coming apart is an expected failure for the aircraft industry that operates thousands of engines for uncountable hours?

Yeah sure, just like all the life rafts are there because of all the water landings we do....

Intelligent, real intelligent.....

 

[PlayTheOdds]

There is no doubt that a modern turbine engine is indeed the most reliable engine ever built. I am not saying that they are not. All I am saying is that they do fail. Thank you for proving my point by the way.

Robbed there is the answer to your question from a pilot himself. If you fly on his airline for one year there is a 1 in 200 chance you will be on a flight with an engine failure. Providing those are all twin-engine aircraft, start figuring the three and four engine aircraft and the odds will go up in favor of an engine failure. Now multiply that by the thousands of aircraft flying in the industry and you will see that it does indeed become a common problem for the industry.