The "Good" News just keeps pouring in.

Phoenix757767 said:
You still don’t get it.

Only multi employer plans can be reduced like the IBT plans are being asked. The law doesn’t permit it to a single employer plan.

The PBGC wouldn’t let AA terminate their plans. They are frozen. There is no bankruptcy on the horizon. And when a plan is terminated the terminating company by law has to give the PBGC stock in the reorganized company equal to the value of the shortfall. That’s what happened when when LUS terminated our pensions. The PBGC is funded by fees each pension plan that is active. You apparently don’t understand how the process works. No one except the pilots plan paid out more than the PBGC’s max payouts. No one else had payments reduced.
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Sure keep thinking that.
That's what all the other pensioners thought before they lost 10%, 20%, 25% even 30% plus in some cases. They thought; "this could never happen right, it's all guaranteed, isn't it???
 
swamt said:
Sure keep thinking that.
That's what all the other pensioners thought before they lost 10%, 20%, 25% even 30% plus in some cases. They thought; "this could never happen right, it's all guaranteed, isn't it???
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Under the PBGC maximum payout is $67,295, at LUS no one except the pilots got a reduction in payouts.

You clearly don’t understand the difference between a single employer vs multi employer plan.

You are spouting misinformation again. AA isn’t bankrupt nor was there pension terminated. It was frozen. Once again AA paid $921 million into their frozen plans this year, $14 million more than required.
 
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Phoenix757767 said:
Under the PBGC maximum payout is $67,295, at LUS no one except the pilots got a reduction in payouts.

AA isn’t bankrupt nor was there pension terminated. It was frozen. Once again AA paid $921 million into their frozen plans this year, $14 million more than required.
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BFD. So, a young person who works for AA for another 30 years retires with a pension that is based upon what he or she would collect as if they were 60 years old and retired on the day AA went into bankruptcy, November 29, 2011. So their pension is based upon the number of years they worked between hire date and 11/29/2011. And, since the plan was frozen, it is not eligible to be taken over by the PBGC. I would say that results in a reduction to the amount paid.
 
jimntx said:
BFD. So, a young person who works for AA for another 30 years retires with a pension that is based upon what he or she would collect as if they were 60 years old and retired on the day AA went into bankruptcy, November 29, 2011. So their pension is based upon the number of years they worked between hire date and 11/29/2011. And, since the plan was frozen, it is not eligible to be taken over by the PBGC. I would say that results in a reduction to the amount paid.
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There is no reduction on benefits accrued. You don’t earn future benefits which was replaced with the 401k with a match.
And if for some reason AA goes into bankruptcy they can seek to terminate the pension. At LUS all non-union employees’ pension was frozen in 1992, then terminated in 2005.
 
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Phoenix757767 said:
There is no reduction on benefits accrued. You don’t earn future benefits which was replaced with the 401k with a match..
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All depends upon how you define reduction. Yes the money is there, but actuarily it gets reduced. I retired last day of October, 2017. I was 72 years old. My last 6 years of service at AA (which, of course were also my highest earnings years) and 12 years of age were not counted when my pension was calculated. I call that a reduction. My check is smaller than what it would have been if all my years of service and my actual age had been included in the calculation. (I'm not that adept at calculating pensions, but I have a friend who used to design computerized pension systems for a major oil company. She calculated the money I would receive from the frozen plan almost to the penny.) I did get a little credit for working past 68. Not from my earnings in those years. It was from the fact that I didn't die. There was a certain amount of money (as you said) set aside with estimated monthly benefits to be paid until I kicked the can assuming that the payments began at age 60. Since the payments didn't start until I was 72.5, that same amount of money didn't have to last as long; so it increased the monthly payment some, but not as much as the benefit would have increased if my last 6 years of service had been included in the calculation.
 
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Phoenix757767 said:
And if for some reason AA goes into bankruptcy they can seek to terminate the pension.
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This was one of my main points. Yes they can terminate. And I never said AA was in BK. I said if they do go BK again, and don't just think they won't again.
To add to your statement above, I also said that the retirees also would have no say so what so ever just like the IBT teamsters retirees did not when they slashed their benefits.
You just stated exactly what I was stating could happen.
 
swamt said:
This was one of my main points. Yes they can terminate. And I never said AA was in BK. I said if they do go BK again, and don't just think they won't again.
To add to your statement above, I also said that the retirees also would have no say so what so ever just like the IBT teamsters retirees did not when they slashed their benefits.
You just stated exactly what I was stating could happen.
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Wrong the Retirees do have a say under Section 1114 of the bankruptcy code establishes a retiree committee that the court and the company have to recognize and negotiate with. We had a Section 1114 in both LUS’ bankruptcies.

Take the time and do some research before you post it’s quite clear you don’t know what you are talking about.
 
ALUS78 said:
Could i be collecting on the terminated plan now while im working at a reduced rate of course? Some guy from TWA said hes collecting on his though i read somewhere i cant
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Not anymore. The IAMNPF recently eliminated that benefit for anyone looking to do so. That's one of the moves they've made to try to get the plan to stop taking on water.
 
Kev3188 said:
Not anymore. The IAMNPF recently eliminated that benefit for anyone looking to do so. That's one of the moves they've made to try to get the plan to stop taking on water.
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No my frozen terminated plan in the pbgc
 
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