The Future Of Ual?

[skyglider99]

1-the retirees of ual WILL BE required to pay medical benefits***alpa,afa,iam etc
\ will not be able too stop ual inc from imposing premium costs to retirees through litigation**it is the DIPS**JP MORGAN, CITIGROUP,BANK ONE ETC that really call all the shots.
2-TED will fail**UAL should have gone the way of AA AND NW***simply put ***just match the fares of the competition in each individual market\
3-RES CENTERS*most current res centers will be gone within 5 yrs***outsourcing of res jobs will continue to escalate to foreign countries**aka india,mexico canada
etc***as the internet grows and enhancements are made to the airline web sites
4*

 

[Fly]

1 - Good possibility of happening but it will be frowned upon by government, not good when you're looking for a loan guarantee.

2 - Ted saves money to fly, so that isn't really a point. More seats in plane, no food service, no uniform changes, and United was going to paint the planes anyway (may as well paint them like Ted)

3 - Bingo! It's sad to see that our country has taken, and will continue to take, jobs away from Americans and hand them over to the cheapest labor available. Just a matter of time until they come for all of our jobs (don't think your immune, your not)

 

[novaqt]

Isn't that wonderful!!! All Americans will be unemployed and on a permanent vacation. There will be no need for government and services, since no one is working. No need for stores and utilities, because Americans no longer have an income to pay for the goods and services. Everyone will go out of business in this country. Isn't it just wonderful, the politicians and corporations want to kill off old people and retirees, that will save social security benefits. All Americans will live out on the streets begging for food. India and China will become the world's superpowers. England and the US will have completely destroyed themselves.

Please do no take the above seriously. I am speaking to the posters who preach doom and gloom on this board. Save now so you can enjoy your permanent vacation.

 

[nwa_dc10]

I don't like to see American jobs go overseas any more than the next guy. Unfortunately I think that's the way the world is heading.

I really worry when I hear John Kerry pandering to organized labor by railing against outsourcing, as I'm not sure he really understands the long-term implications of any legislation intended to curb it. Yes, such a plan would keep Americans employed for a while longer, but let's look further down the road.

First, prices on American products and services would increase, reducing the buying power of American consumers. This would lead to lower demand, potentially requiring companies to adjust their workforces. Second, foreign-made items would become more attractive to both U.S. and overseas consumers, further reducing demand for American products. Finally, if left unchecked, American companies, hamstrung in their ability to compete, would have no choice but to either sell-out to foreign firms or go out of business altogether, both of which would further reduce American jobs. I admit this is a "doomsday" scenario, but I think it's certainly possible.

Like it or not, Americans need to realize that the days of high-paying jobs requiring only a High School diploma and maybe some technical training are over, and they're not coming back, ever! In order to succeed and provide for their families in the future, people need to take it upon themselves to acquire new skills that will qualify them for what high-paying jobs remain.

 

[ojxux]

A certain busdriver from another airline has been claiming that US is going to buy UAL - don't you all believe him?

 

[UAL_TECH]

nwa_dc10,

It is very apparent that the ‘Globalization Plan’ is to outsource ‘everything possible’ to our overseas ‘cheap labor pool’ and the only way to stop the tide is for American workers to work for the same pay and benefits as our ‘cost competitive’ ‘Globalized’ labor pool. The only time that the American Flag is waved by Corporate America is when it is to their benefit and the rest of the time is spent selling us out and convincing us that it is our own fault for making a living wage.

We initially heard some very positive notions as to how NAFTA would create jobs in the US. How is that going?
It would be interesting to know how much of ‘our’ tax dollars was ‘invested’ in other countries, what the investments where used for, and what was the ROI for us (Americans)?

I really worry when I hear John Kerry pandering to organized labor by railing against outsourcing, as I'm not sure he really understands the long-term implications of any legislation intended to curb it. Yes, such a plan would keep Americans employed for a while longer, but let's look further down the road.

First, prices on American products and services would increase, reducing the buying power of American consumers. This would lead to lower demand, potentially requiring companies to adjust their workforces. Second, foreign-made items would become more attractive to both U.S. and overseas consumers, further reducing demand for American products. Finally, if left unchecked, American companies, hamstrung in their ability to compete, would have no choice but to either sell-out to foreign firms or go out of business altogether, both of which would further reduce American jobs. I admit this is a "doomsday" scenario, but I think it's certainly possible.

Looking ‘further’ down the road, how will Americans be able to purchase these goods and services if they do not have employment with income and benefits that affords them the affluence that allows for discretionary purchases? Isn’t that why we (the little people) were given a $300 tax rebate, to increase discretionary purchases and fuel the economy? If $300 per ‘family’ could fuel the economy, why not a $300 pay increase?

Where is the logic in this?

American companies (if there is such a thing anymore) have sold America lot, stock and barrel!
We may as well take down the flag and put up a dollar sign!

Like it or not, Americans need to realize that the days of high-paying jobs requiring only a High School diploma and maybe some technical training are over, and they're not coming back, ever! In order to succeed and provide for their families in the future, people need to take it upon themselves to acquire new skills that will qualify them for what high-paying jobs remain.

This is an incredibly myopic statement. You’re a$$umption that only the ‘unwashed masses’ will suffer is unsustainable (do you live in a bubble?). Outsourcing is not confined to ‘ANY’ group as you infer. Why don’t you visit us in Silicon Valley sometime and get a grip as to your future.

BS Degreed Computer Programmers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!
BS, BSEE and MS, MSEE Degreed Electronic Engineers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!

Seattle:
BS, BSEE and MS, MSEE Degreed Electronic Engineers – Outsourced!!!
Aerospace Engineers and Scientists - Outsourced!!!

There is ‘nothing’ sacred!

‘THIS’ is the wave of the future, and to a$$ume that you are somehow (unless you are one of the Big Boys w/ $1+ Billion or more) immune from these forces leads me to believe that you simply do not know what the heck you are talking about!

:down: UT

 

[Ukridge]

"Prediction is very difficult - particulary when it is about the future" Physicist Niels Bohr

Cheers

 

[UAL_TECH]

When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.

-Sir Winston Churchill

UT

 

[mweiss]

This is an incredibly myopic statement. You’re a$$umption that only the ‘unwashed masses’ will suffer is unsustainable (do you live in a bubble?). Outsourcing is not confined to ‘ANY’ group as you infer. Why don’t you visit us in Silicon Valley sometime and get a grip as to your future.

You're pretty much on target there. Not only are customer service rep jobs being moved to India, but so are the programming jobs and many engineering jobs.

But here's where we differ:

BS Degreed Computer Programmers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!
BS, BSEE and MS, MSEE Degreed Electronic Engineers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!

In-sourced thanks to H1B Visas? Excuse me? Are you implying that people in the US on H1Bs are being paid less than the rest of us? They're doing the same work for the same pay.

In any case, they're all being outsourced because labor in this country simply costs too much. The advent of low-cost, fast transportation has made manufacturing overseas more feasible. The advent of low-cost, instant global communication has made development of intellectual property and telephone-based services much less expensive to produce and provide overseas.

The upshot? The time of the United States having a standard of living orders of magnitude above much of the rest of the world is coming to an end. Ultimately, the world will necessarily become more economically homogeneous, and there's little that can reasonably be done about it.

Where the United States will continue to lead is in the creation of intellectual property, but that is mostly a cultural phenomenon.

 

[UAL_TECH]

But here's where we differ:
QUOTE (UAL_TECH @ Feb 29 2004, 10:20 PM)
BS Degreed Computer Programmers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!
BS, BSEE and MS, MSEE Degreed Electronic Engineers – In-sourced thanks to the H1B Visa program, the rest is Outsourced!!!
In-sourced thanks to H1B Visas? Excuse me? Are you implying that people in the US on H1Bs are being paid less than the rest of us? They're doing the same work for the same pay.

Yes, not only am I ‘implying’ but I am making a ‘bold ass statement’!
Furthermore, the H1B’s that did lose their positions in the Bay Area are ‘still here’!!!
(Next time you visit SFO, get you butt in a cab going to San Jose, get back to me.)

In any case, they're all being outsourced because labor in this country simply costs too much. The advent of low-cost, fast transportation has made manufacturing overseas more feasible. The advent of low-cost, instant global communication has made development of intellectual property and telephone-based services much less expensive to produce and provide overseas.

So, what are you saying? On one side of your mouth you ‘imply’ that the H1B’s are making the same and from the ‘other side’ of your mouth you justify their position due to American Labor costs?

‘PICK ONE!’

The upshot? The time of the United States having a standard of living orders of magnitude above much of the rest of the world is coming to an end. Ultimately, the world will necessarily become more economically homogeneous, and there's little that can reasonably be done about it.

This is ‘your’ upshot?
‘HELLO!!!’ am I the only one reading this Thread ???

Where the United States will continue to lead is in the creation of intellectual property, but that is mostly a cultural phenomenon.

So now we are shifting from manufacturing, to service, now to ‘intellectual’ property.
What a line of crap!


:down: UT

 

[avek00]

While UA has done an admirable job of stabilizing itself in bankruptcy (considering that most industry observers did not expect them to still be in business by now), management is continuing to shy away from the substantive reforms necessary to transform United into a viable enterprise that can survive out of bankruptcy.

Granted, United has taken a hacksaw to wages, and will likely end up terminating some or all of the employee pensions, but that alone will not stop the cash hemorraging that has not fully abated since 2000. The half-baked TED won't be United's salvation either, as it takes the company away from its traditional strength of catering to premium business travelers by instead offering a product that combines the worst of mainline (lack of hub-bypass flying) with the worst of LCCs (no F class or other incentives for biz travelers). And to make matters worse, after all of the hot air from UAWHQ, United finds itself in the unenviable position of begging for mercy from the ATSB in order to survive -- THAT, more than anything else, demonstrates just how little things have changed for the better at United.

I wish I could say that things are looking rosy for the tulip carrier - the fact of the matter is that the company has literally been living off of "borrowed" time, and if REAL change doesn't come post haste, history will the parody the new slogan: United - It's time to die...

 

[avek00]

While UA has done an admirable job of stabilizing itself in bankruptcy (considering that most industry observers did not expect them to still be in business by now), management is continuing to shy away from the substantive reforms necessary to transform United into a viable enterprise that can survive out of bankruptcy.

Granted, United has taken a hacksaw to wages, and will likely end up terminating some or all of the employee pensions, but that alone will not stop the cash hemorraging that has not fully abated since 2000. The half-baked TED won't be United's salvation either, as it takes the company away from its traditional strength of catering to premium business travelers by instead offering a product that combines the worst of mainline (lack of hub-bypass flying) with the worst of LCCs (no F class or other incentives for biz travelers). And to make matters worse, after all of the hot air from UAWHQ, United finds itself in the unenviable position of begging for mercy from the ATSB in order to survive -- THAT, more than anything else, demonstrates just how little things have changed for the better at United.

I wish I could say that things are looking rosy for the tulip carrier - the fact of the matter is that the company has literally been living off of "borrowed" time, and if REAL change doesn't come post haste, history will the parody the new slogan: United - It's time to die...

 

[Bear96]

Now avek, you make some good points, but was that last little jab about "time to die" REALLY necessary to convey the merits of your ideas?

Or was it just to unnecessarily rile people up for your own personal amusement...

 

[767jetz]

Or was it just to unnecessarily rile people up for your own personal amusement...

Bear,

Just think of avek00 as Chip's little brother.

He only comes around once in a while to try and stir the pot.

He knows nothing about UA's business plan, our pension issues, or our employee culture. I think he gets most of his info from Chip and USAToday.

767jetz B)

 

[JetMech]

When corporate America needs me to send my son to fight...I'll just tell then why not get those guys in India go ....after all it is they who benefit from "the American dream" h34r: