The DOL files suit against the IAMPF and trustees

[MetalMover]

This is one of the questions I'd like an answer to before considering if I would want to be a participant in the trust since currently I'm not and it may be offered to me?

What is the average age of those 100,000 members who haven't retired yet? If they're average age was only 25 years old then I know that they have a ways to go and will keep the plan funded for me to enjoy.

Now if the average age is 45 years old we'd be facing a future crisis situation. Even with what was put in over many years the fund will quickly begin to pay out far more than its taking in.

What is the average age of members in the plan who have not retired yet?

Good points.....Hence is the problem with 700's constant preaching that the fund is 101% funded. Well if one has to participate for 10 years, then that 10 year waiting period is soon going to arrive. So it appears there will be a crisis ALA social security where more people are collecting than contributing. This is why they may try to force this pension scam down all our throats. So even though it may be fully funded, it will not be for long when those workers start retiring in large numbers because they all needed that 10 year pension money having lost their US pensions to the PBGC. 
Keep this in mind..if it is forced into the JCBA, then I will predict it will be shot down handily by the shear TWU numbers.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have zero problem with it being an option, the problem is we all know that is not the goal.
Most of us have been through 4 or 5 contract negotiations and we have seen items enter
in the negotiations like the SRP, and we hear things like- its just the seat & toilet shop's ! what 
is the problem with that? Ask the guys from TASEL what happens with that when you add the juniority 
rule. 
 So my fear is this, we negotiate an option rule but ultimately it will come down to what the company
wants & what the IAM wants. I can hear it now "Brothers we negotiated & negotiated and we believe 
this is the best we will see, Delta plus 3 and instant vesting into our IAMPF with zero sign up fees
for our TWU brothers".  They will then put the blame on AA for zero movement on their wanting a 
single retirement package for all its IAM/TWU membership. 
 So just like the Meathead, if you let-em in the door the next thing he is doing is sleeping with the daughter
and drinking all my wine.
I had zero input and choice in the association like every other TWU member even when we were promised
one, so now this is my choice  "ZERO INVOLVEMENT IN ANY WAY IN THE IAMPF" because the meaning
of the word CHOICE is fluid with the TWU.

I like everything you wrote as a possibility except for the last line. Let's put a Jim Little history into it.

It was Jim Little who agreed to the Association and decided not to have a vote to determine if it would be something we wanted. His Administration yes but he was the ultimate decider being the Intl President and the head of the Political apparatus.

I don't believe if Harry Lombardo had been the President the story would have went the same way? Here's why. When Harry and Co basically staged a coup against Jim and his chosen successor when he won they cleaned house. Lots of people were told to leave including people who you guys expressly hated that you shared that hatred on here.

When the IAM told our Presidents they wanted them for a sit down they chose not to go because there were some issues with what the Jim group wrote that they wanted addressed. The attempted end run around Harry was a very bad move on the IAM part. But anyway here we are today. Personally I believe Harry would have had us vote on the Association before it was filed with the NMB. The guys in office now are allowing a lot more autonomy then maybe you guys on here have figured out yet.

When Harry got in all efforts against your AMFA drives stopped from the International or ATD level. I didn't see one communication trying to prevent you from your choice. If there was then prove it to me? It was left up to you to decide. Harry gave you free reign to get it done if you really wanted it.

So what I'm saying is that the guys in office today want us to have as much choice as we can possibly get. But the agreements prior were signed and done. Legally whether they wanted to or not, there was no way out of them.

Maybe it's you guys who aren't giving them a chance now?

 

[WeAAsles]

Good points.....Hence is the problem with 700's constant preaching that the fund is 101% funded. Well if one has to participate for 10 years, then that 10 year waiting period is soon going to arrive. So it appears there will be a crisis ALA social security where more people are collecting than contributing. This is why they may try to force this pension scam down all our throats. So even though it may be fully funded, it will not be for long when those workers start retiring in large numbers because they all needed that 10 year pension money having lost their US pensions to the PBGC. 
Keep this in mind..if it is forced into the JCBA, then I will predict it will be shot down handily by the shear TWU numbers.

Metal lets throw out a hypothetical. We get "forced" as you guys speculate into the IAMPF. But that 3% subpar offer ultimately winds up being 10%. Do you still vote it down because the IAMPF is in there?

Or do you say screw it and take that extra 7% you never expected and pop it in to your 401 to make up for the match we no longer have?

That's the reason I say I think I'll read the eventual TA before making any rash decisions.

 

[WeAAsles]

Good points.....Hence is the problem with 700's constant preaching that the fund is 101% funded. Well if one has to participate for 10 years, then that 10 year waiting period is soon going to arrive. So it appears there will be a crisis ALA social security where more people are collecting than contributing. This is why they may try to force this pension scam down all our throats. So even though it may be fully funded, it will not be for long when those workers start retiring in large numbers because they all needed that 10 year pension money having lost their US pensions to the PBGC. 
Keep this in mind..if it is forced into the JCBA, then I will predict it will be shot down handily by the shear TWU numbers.

I missed something on this. I'm not worried about the US guys and what they will take out. Their contributions are only a tiny drop in the bucket with 10.9 Billion in the fund. It would be more the big wig Boeing guys and others I'd want to look at.

 

[Real tired]

I missed something on this. I'm not worried about the US guys and what they will take out. Their contributions are only a tiny drop in the bucket with 10.9 Billion in the fund. It would be more the big wig Boeing guys and others I'd want to look at.

 
As I silently read all the posts, I used to think you were a stand up type guy, back when you signed our petition, but now I wonder.
 
Some of your posts are becoming sickening.  You and your "friend".
 
Since we all hunger for knowledge, here's a little document that everyone can read and make their own choice.
 
View attachment 2014_5500_excerpt.pdf
 
I hope the file works, if it doesn't, I'll try again.  Get it while it hot.  I won't host it for long.

 

[WeAAsles]

As I silently read all the posts, I used to think you were a stand up type guy, back when you signed our petition, but now I wonder.
 
Some of your posts are becoming sickening.  You and your "friend".
 
Since we all hunger for knowledge, here's a little document that everyone can read and make their own choice.
 

2014_5500_excerpt.pdf
 
I hope the file works, if it doesn't, I'll try again.  Get it while it hot.  I won't host it for long.

Dude stop being so tired. Get some sleep.

Thanks for the info.

Sickening huh?

 

[Real tired]

 
See if you can run these numbers:
 
 
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:11197]

700UW,
Credit Suisse says the IAMNPF is funded much lower than 102%. They say under FMV assessment it is more like around 60%. So you got numbers, I got numbers. Who do you believe? After reading the DOL letter, it appears the IAM has not been turthful about what's going on with the fund.

 
 

 

[Real tired]

Dude stop being so tired. Get some sleep.

Thanks for the info.

Sickening huh?

 
Alright.  I think I need to apologize for the "sickening" comment.
 
Maybe it's just your tenacity.  I realize you're trying to make a change for the better, but each time I read your posts, I think back on all the belittling comments you made to members of my group when we were trying to make a change in our representation.

 

[WeAAsles]

Alright.  I think I need to apologize for the "sickening" comment.
 
Maybe it's just your tenacity.  I realize you're trying to make a change for the better, but each time I read your posts, I think back on all the belittling comments you made to members of my group when we were trying to make a change in our representation.

I'll apologize for that. I just didn't like the way some people were trying to play the angle to try and make it happen. If you remember there were a few things I pointed out that I liked about them. Particularly their negotiations updates. Very thorough.

Here's how I kind of see three groups.

IAM reminds me of Costco. Great products but they come in too big packaging for me to shop there personally. (But I have a Costco card)

TWU reminds me of Whole Foods. I like whole foods. Semi Mom and Pop a little and I think they're trying to see everyone eat a little better (My opinion)

AMFA reminds me of the Mom and Pop grocery store. Good products but people don't go there too often and they're trying to compete against the convenience of much bigger stores.

All good places to shop depending on what you like and your preferences.

 

[MetalMover]

I missed something on this. I'm not worried about the US guys and what they will take out. Their contributions are only a tiny drop in the bucket with 10.9 Billion in the fund. It would be more the big wig Boeing guys and others I'd want to look at.

 What concerns me is that they may "need" the TWU members participation to sustain it

Metal lets throw out a hypothetical. We get "forced" as you guys speculate into the IAMPF. But that 3% subpar offer ultimately winds up being 10%. Do you still vote it down because the IAMPF is in there?

Or do you say screw it and take that extra 7% you never expected and pop it in to your 401 to make up for the match we no longer have?

That's the reason I say I think I'll read the eventual TA before making any rash decisions.

My reply to yours or anyone else's who might be interested in it is this......I do NOT wish to participate in any pension plan run by ANY union.
 
I now pose a question to you, hypothetically.....What if we are forced into the IAMNPS......And one needs to participate 10 years.....What comes of those who want to retires in less than 10 years? Should they get screwed?

 

[700UW]

Totally understand that it is separate but apparently it is acceptable to spend pension funds on holiday parties and wine. Sounsds like the IAM went to the Hoffa school of accounting. It is the IAM leadership that doesn't get the difference between pension fund monies and general fund and how they should be spent.
The fund now has three strikes against it confirmed. Independent analysis shows its not fully funded, the DOL has taken action for fund mismanagement, and it's a multiemployer plan that can be negatively impacted by other companies pulling out.

The holiday parties were for plan employees and family

 

[WeAAsles]

What concerns me is that they may "need" the TWU members participation to sustain it

My reply to yours or anyone else's who might be interested in it is this......I do NOT wish to participate in any pension plan run by ANY union.

It does kind of put a bad taste in my mouth for that reason as well. Being mad at the company for screwing us on our Pension is one thing. But I do hate the idea that people will hate their Union if they feel they screwed them as well when the plan takes hits and especially if it took even more in the future and they wouldn't let me get out before that happened.

Teamsters especially.

 

[WeAAsles]

The holiday parties were for plan employees and family

They shouldn't have parties especially if the plan reduced payouts for any participants.

Just doesn't look good.

 

[WeAAsles]

Metal I saw you added a question. I know the plan has a vesting period but there's no way that's not going to be waived if we joined in. Especially if some ass hats (Nelson phrase) forced us into the plan.

And I'm still (hopefully not naively) sticking to the idea that we'll be given a choice?

 

[Buck]

Actuarial Value and Fair Value in 2012 by Credit  Suisse
 
Source: Form 5500 Filings, Credit Suisse Accounting & Tax Research
 
I would like an explanation for the Fair Value of 57%  charted page 5
 
 
 
 
 
 
View attachment document-957405261.pdf