The CWA/IBT have begun negotitions with the company.

[WeAAsles]

Does it matter? The point is they stepped out.
 
It was my understanding that they still had two separate agreements that they were all ALPA but the East guys didnt like the proposed seniority integration and split to form USAPA. 
 
The question remains, if infighting over representation is so destructive why cant the IAM do what is best for Labor and just step aside like USAPA and the AFA? If they had then we would be in negotiations as well. If they go forward with this half assed plan it may be a long time, or maybe thats the objective?

Bob what does all of this have to do with the CWA agents negotiations? But anyway I know that you feel the IAM should just step away. What if they were thinking that the TWU should step away since they are a much larger organization?

Don't talk about the rules either because it would be hypocritical to only cite them when it's advantageous for what you want.

 

[dfw gen]

So the bottom line is the twu and the iam could not care enough about the membership to negotiate together untill this association crap gets rejected? Record profits and all they care about is self preservation. Screw the membership all they care about are the dues.

 

[dfw gen]

You would think they would try to put a good example forward to try and sell the sh*t sandwich of an association. Nope not the case even before the association as a sign of good faith they could TRY and work together.
I do predict that if maintenance does leave the iam/twu association under current management within ten years they will lose the whole ball of wax. Again you would think in the interest of self preservation they woukd make some type of effort to SHOW us something.

Fools all of them!

 

[AANOTOK]

The Association hasn't even been formed/certified yet and it is already causing havoc. Again, a sign of things to come!

 

[NYer]

You would think they would try to put a good example forward to try and sell the sh*t sandwich of an association. Nope not the case even before the association as a sign of good faith they could TRY and work together.
I do predict that if maintenance does leave the iam/twu association under current management within ten years they will lose the whole ball of wax. Again you would think in the interest of self preservation they woukd make some type of effort to SHOW us something.

Fools all of them!

 
Whether there's an Association or one of the unions wins total representation...unless we agree to work together it doesn't matter who's shingle is on the front door.

 

[hp-csr-phx]

Meanwhile back to the CWA/IBT, hopefully we will get a transition agreement to recall furloughed and displaced  agents to work for either airline.

 

[eolesen]

Guys, there are dozens of other threads for the mechanics.

Do you think it might be possible to stick to the topic here, which is the agents' contract negotiations?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob what does all of this have to do with the CWA agents negotiations? But anyway I know that you feel the IAM should just step away. What if they were thinking that the TWU should step away since they are a much larger organization?
 

Has that ever happened anywhere?
 
I have no problem with the IAM being given the chance to be on a ballott, or even the Association if they get the cards.   I have a problem with Jim Little and Buffenbarger saying we are to be put in this without a vote. I would even be against adding dead people, management, people in other departments  and people who dont work here on the eligibility list in an effort to keep them off the ballott. I would be OK with a fair election, you are the one who says you do not want to see us vote on it because the TWU and IAM would then have to fight over us and those who lost would be bitter, so it should just be imposed on us. So I say if you dont want to see that the IAM should just step aside like the AFA and USAPA, dont see or hear of any problems over there. 
 
Some rules are fair, others aren't, if you believe they aren't fair shouldn't you challenge them?  I have no problem with the IAM being given the chance to be on a ballott, or even the Association if they get the cards.  If not then then you would probably be very happy in Communist China or Fascist Germany (as long as you had Blond hair, blue eyes and weren't Jewish. 
 
Isn't challenging rules that put you at a disadvantage an essential part of the Freedom that we say we as American enjoy? 
 
EO has a point move this to a TWU thread if you want to continue.
 
I wish the agents the best of luck. For the AA people this is long overdue. Congrats on getting some form or representation, even if they do keep you split between two collective bargaining agents. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Has that ever happened anywhere?
 
I have no problem with the IAM being given the chance to be on a ballott, or even the Association if they get the cards.   I have a problem with Jim Little and Buffenbarger saying we are to be put in this without a vote. I would even be against adding dead people, management, people in other departments  and people who dont work here on the eligibility list in an effort to keep them off the ballott. I would be OK with a fair election, you are the one who says you do not want to see us vote on it because the TWU and IAM would then have to fight over us and those who lost would be bitter, so it should just be imposed on us. So I say if you dont want to see that the IAM should just step aside like the AFA and USAPA, dont see or hear of any problems over there. 
 
Some rules are fair, others aren't, if you believe they aren't fair shouldn't you challenge them?  I have no problem with the IAM being given the chance to be on a ballott, or even the Association if they get the cards.  If not then then you would probably be very happy in Communist China or Fascist Germany (as long as you had Blond hair, blue eyes and weren't Jewish. 
 
Isn't challenging rules that put you at a disadvantage an essential part of the Freedom that we say we as American enjoy? 
 
EO has a point move this to a TWU thread if you want to continue.
 
I wish the agents the best of luck. For the AA people this is long overdue. Congrats on getting some form or representation, even if they do keep you split between two collective bargaining agents.

Unions shouldn't have any rules or laws written by POS Politicians that bind our hands. I'd be more than fine if the IAM or us either had a say in the matter without having to see either side put at a disadvantage because some "rule" said they have to get cards.

You only want them to go by those rules because you can't stand them and wish they would just beat it. Not exactly Union brotherly love if you ask me.

And the only reason I'd be fine with the NMB ruling in favor of the association and just certifying the association is because of that rule that puts the NO UNION option on that ballot.

On that one its not Fleet I'm worried about actually, it's your group that I think more than likely could be inclined to cut off their noses to spite their faces. I really do believe they have the propensity to be that dumb, sorry.

 

[Bob Owens]

Unions shouldn't have any rules or laws written by POS Politicians that bind our hands. I'd be more than fine if the IAM or us either had a say in the matter without having to see either side put at a disadvantage because some "rule" said they have to get cards.

You only want them to go by those rules because you can't stand them and wish they would just beat it. Not exactly Union brotherly love if you ask me.

And the only reason I'd be fine with the NMB ruling in favor of the association and just certifying the association is because of that rule that puts the NO UNION option on that ballot.

On that one its not Fleet I'm worried about actually, it's your group that I think more than likely could be inclined to cut off their noses to spite their faces. I really do believe they have the propensity to be that dumb, sorry.

Every three years I go though an election, fair enough, would not want it any other way, even pushed to make sure my peers didn't have to wait till an election to remove me if I didn't do the right thing. However the Collective bargaining agent once voted in never has to have an election unless more than half the "eligible" people actively solicit either decertification or another Union.  
 
We may have a chance to fix the AA/ATD, we wont be able to fix the Association. We have no rights to fix it, there will be no Association Convention where you can try and change things. It will be a mess. We would have to convince not only the rest of the TWU it needs to be fixed but we would have to get the rest of the IAM convinced it needs to be fixed. Both Unions represent some very low wage earners so our issues will not rise to the top of the agenda, especially since the Association itself would have us split between two Unions. 
 
In MX basically we would be pretty functional if the International would just settle the Title II issue and turned control over to the elected representatives, once negotiations are done we need to look into further consolidation and if we all merge into one Local be allowed to run our contracts with the same freedom that Locals 555, 556 and Local 100 run theirs. They need to not make the same mistake they made with Fudge and Plowman. We could never get any where near there with the Association.
 
Title II needs to be allowed to choose "All in locals and contracts with Title I or all out". Let them decide. In New York Title II was told NO by their Title III run Local, I believe the same thing happened in DFW. The reason given is because if they leave those Locals would need to restructure, well that needs to happen anyway. This isn't 1950. Long distance phone calls are one of the few things that cost less today than they did in 1950 and Local 591 has already structured an efficient model of a Local that goes from one coast to the other. Fleet has too many Locals and there is no advantage come contract time to having seven financially stressed Locals sitting at the table. You may want seven representatives but you could have that with fewer actual Locals. 
 
Here is what you must look at, is the present structure working? Is your standard of living getting better or at least are you holding your own without working more hours? The answer is NO. Will the Alliance make things better or make things worse? The answer is WORSE. The status quo of how we went into 2003, 2008 and BK in 2012 is unacceptable. We will only continue to get bad deals. We need change, but the Association is not the change we need. Around 3000 of our 4000 members sent in petitions saying they do not want the Association, we also received hundreds from Tulsa and forwarded them to the NMB as well. The TWU is changing, maybe not fast enough and maybe not enough  but at least in Maint it is changing, the IAM is exactly the same IAM that brought their members up to our post BK wages eight years after their employer exited BK,EIGHT YEARS and the best they could do was get our BK wage where they also gave away synergies that are needed as leverage in JCBA talks to a company earning billions. 
 
This whole Association was Jim Littles baby, so was merging with the CWA, which the new team was able to get out of, the deal with the IAM was already sealed. Do you really want to go forward with Jim Littles plan? Read the language of the Association, it strips the Locals of any power whatsoever, and its something that cant be changed at a Convention either. Its a complete mess. Even the determination of what cities end up in what Union makes no sense. At least the IBT/CWA said east is one west is the other, fairly simple, the TWU/IAM Association is more confusing than a Florida Ballott. 
 
The fact is even before the IAM brought back the sellout deal I was against the Alliance, I said one or the other, before they showed their true colors I would have been ok if they stuck us all in the IAM and the TWU took all of fleet, but I cant accept an Association under any terms and I could no longer accept the IAM. So now its stick to the rules, its TWU unless they get a showing of interest.

 

[WeAAsles]

Bob I do like some of the items in your last comment but really feel we need to take it off this thread and put it somewhere else. It's not fair to continue to hijack every thread and especially one that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

 

[john john]

CWA CBA has profit sharing still. CWA currently has an arbitration schedule for DOH non-rev boarding in January. CWA has language and a grievance file for change of control that would allow some snap backs. All of these items have value. How much? The agents have their work cut out for them. Hope to see some improvements in pay benefits scope and work rules language

 

[WeAAsles]

CWA CBA has profit sharing still. CWA currently has an arbitration schedule for DOH non-rev boarding in January. CWA has language and a grievance file for change of control that would allow some snap backs. All of these items have value. How much? The agents have their work cut out for them. Hope to see some improvements in pay benefits scope and work rules language

CWA CBA as I understand it also has the agents bringing up the escorts? I may be in the minority in my views as an FSC but you can have and keep that job IMO.

 

[john john]

CWA CBA as I understand it also has the agents bringing up the escorts? I may be in the minority in my views as an FSC but you can have and keep that job IMO.

Escorts ? What do you mean ?

 

[WeAAsles]

Escorts ? What do you mean ?

Baby strollers and light wheelchairs that we carry up the jetbridge stairs for the passengers convenience. People have begun buying these insane heavy Cadillac strollers for their fat future diabetic children that we still carry up for them.

Like I said to me the agents can have that headache. Sayonara and good riddance.