the Christmas Rush + Insanity has begun, for the Day that Never Was !

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

 
What's so hard about letting people celebrate a holiday for the reasons most meaningful to them?
 
With your tone and intolerance you sound just about as nasty and incoherent as any Bible-thumper I've ever heard.

 
OK 'Chock,........I'll play along.
 
For ME personally, I KNOW whats REAL, and whats Not, so I have no enormous problem with the christmas/jesus ...BS, but I do have a Big Problem with what is our Greatest Treasure in this country, .....Our CHILDREN, and what they're taught !!
 
Let me further extrapolate.
 
The True story in this country about the interaction with the white Christians and the First Americans (the Indians).  
 
Fortunately today the VAST majority of History teachers in the USA.....REFUSE to teach fraudulant stories about the White European = GOOD / The Native American = BAD .
 
Heck, slowly but surely the word QUEERS  is starting to disappear (unless you live in western PA.)   (   >   :
 
Parents who start filling the very young heads of a child with (in this case) of Christmas  BS story's is WRONG in my humble view.
 
When a wide-eyed youngster start asking her parents...."WOW, whats all this "December Excitement" about ?, wouldn't it be better to say.........."Well   sweetie, Dad and I believe that it's all about Christmas, and that a man named Jesus .. W A S born in a manger ON  December 25th, so WE celebrate that day with lights, decorated trees, giving each other gifts"  etc.
 
THAT I have NO problem with  !!!
 
As you MAY remember, I started out my original post by declaring that............."Even I.... find the EXCITEMENT in (say) a Seven year old's eyes during the christmas season......heartfelt .
 
Should you Still have any further questions, feel free to ask.
I    DEFINITELY  will answer.

 

[eolesen]

You must live either a really boring or a really frustrating life if all you have time for is to piss on the beliefs of other people, Bears.

 

[delldude]

Queers in western Pa?
 
We were taught its 'pole smokers' from some saint from New England.

 

[signals]

OK 'Chock,........I'll play along.
 
For ME personally, I KNOW whats REAL, and whats Not, so I have no enormous problem with the christmas/jesus ...BS, but I do have a Big Problem with what is our Greatest Treasure in this country, .....Our CHILDREN, and what they're taught !!
 
Let me further extrapolate.
 
The True story in this country about the interaction with the white Christians and the First Americans (the Indians).  
 
Fortunately today the VAST majority of History teachers in the USA.....REFUSE to teach fraudulant stories about the White European = GOOD / The Native American = BAD .
 
Heck, slowly but surely the word QUEERS  is starting to disappear (unless you live in western PA.)   (   >   :
 
Parents who start filling the very young heads of a child with (in this case) of Christmas  BS story's is WRONG in my humble view.
 
When a wide-eyed youngster start asking her parents...."WOW, whats all this "December Excitement" about ?, wouldn't it be better to say.........."Well   sweetie, Dad and I believe that it's all about Christmas, and that a man named Jesus .. W A S born in a manger ON  December 25th, so WE celebrate that day with lights, decorated trees, giving each other gifts"  etc.
 
THAT I have NO problem with  !!!
 
As you MAY remember, I started out my original post by declaring that............."Even I.... find the EXCITEMENT in (say) a Seven year old's eyes during the christmas season......heartfelt .
 
Should you Still have any further questions, feel free to ask.
I    DEFINITELY  will answer.

I can actually see where your coming from. Unless your 5 senses perceive it, you don't believe it. You lack religious faith. Faith is believing in something you can't conceive. I threw in the word religious because you are not faithless otherwise you would never have had the drive to achieve your goals.

The true story about the 'white' Christian and Native Americans is that most that came here were low lives and scumbags. Think of it like when Castro emptied his prisons and sent that Freedom Floatilla to our shores. The first Europeans were nothing but murders, thieves, rapists and anything else that was considered UNDESIRABLE!

Mick said it best-I was a fag in NY and a Queer in LA.

I can understand your rationalization about the Jesus thing. Forget Hanukkah, Ramadan, Kwanza, or any other stupid belief that arises in December, but focus on Jesus, the make-believe spawn that defies logic!

Being a Christian, I don't take offense by your comments because for the most part I agree with you.

But lets face the reality.

Kids don't give a damn about Jesus. All they focus on Santa and presents. Christ was born for the Jews. Easter should be the real CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY, but somehow we associate Christmas and giving with Christians.

When people come up to me and ask What Would Jesus Do? I answer them that I'm not Jesus. Then I go on to tell them that he would probably turn water into wine.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Nice rational post....'signals,.......and I thank you for it.  (NOT some finger pointing post like from eolesen.  Helll, he's QUICK to point me out as a finger pointer, but feels free....'to fire - away' at me because he doesn't like my FREE SPEECH ) !!!!  (Eric must've FORGOT the old trueism of.....'People who live in Glass houses....should,nt throw STONES' )
 
You probably won't believe this  'sig, but less than a hour ago, I changed cable company's, and had my new 'install  by a wonderful tech, a person 55 years old who was (GET THIS),..................a DEACON in a local Episcoplal church.
 
I know, I KNOW 'sig,...........your already feeling sorry for the poor guy....after all the questions I THREW AT HIM (respectfully).
It was a GREAT 'give and take'...but we left each other being better people, .......forever  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As to My topic of........' The Day That Never Was '    (" 25th of Dec ")...the Deacon Admitted to me that the early christian leaders PURPOSELY made-up..............the 25th of Dec., to lure the Pagans to christianity  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
And thats all I wanted.   JUST the TRUTH .  !!!!
 
As to....'Ascention,.....or Immaculate conception,.......well he said............." look, you go into the mall (store), hear the sales pitch from the sales person, then you either BUY..or don't BUY., ....NO hard feelings either way"
 
Again, .....thats ALL I ever wanted to hear.
I'll NEVER EVER forget this person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Hey dell.  does this mean I wont get COAL in my stockin'  ???????????????   (  >  :

 

[ChockJockey]

The true story about the 'white' Christian and Native Americans is that most that came here were low lives and scumbags. Think of it like when Castro emptied his prisons and sent that Freedom Floatilla to our shores. The first Europeans were nothing but murders, thieves, rapists and anything else that was considered UNDESIRABLE!

 
If you are referring to the predominantly English settlers of the American Northeast and Mid-Atlantic then this statement is wildly inaccurate.  The Puritans and Separatists, while politically undesirable, were nonetheless pious, moral, hardworking people who had very little tolerance for crime or vice.  The companies that financed the initial colonies weren't so stupid as to staff their ventures with violent criminals. 
 
To be sure, unsavory characters made their way over under various guises and by different degrees but it's not as if the Royal Navy simply dumped rapists and murders onto the shores of Massachusetts en mass and called it a colony.

 

[signals]

As far as that goes, CJ, you have to look at ALL the European settlers. I believe the Spanish were the most ruthless towards ALL natives of the New World.

 

[eolesen]

Nice rational post....'signals,.......and I thank you for it.  (NOT some finger pointing post like from eolesen.  Helll, he's QUICK to point me out as a finger pointer, but feels free....'to fire - away' at me because he doesn't like my FREE SPEECH ) !!!!  (Eric must've FORGOT the old trueism of.....'People who live in Glass houses....should,nt throw STONES' )

If you piss in my front yard, don't be outraged when my dog takes a dump in yours.

 

[delldude]

Nice rational post....'signals,.......and I thank you for it.  (NOT some finger pointing post like from eolesen.  Helll, he's QUICK to point me out as a finger pointer, but feels free....'to fire - away' at me because he doesn't like my FREE SPEECH ) !!!!  (Eric must've FORGOT the old trueism of.....'People who live in Glass houses....should,nt throw STONES' )
 
You probably won't believe this  'sig, but less than a hour ago, I changed cable company's, and had my new 'install  by a wonderful tech, a person 55 years old who was (GET THIS),..................a DEACON in a local Episcoplal church.
 
I know, I KNOW 'sig,...........your already feeling sorry for the poor guy....after all the questions I THREW AT HIM (respectfully).
It was a GREAT 'give and take'...but we left each other being better people, .......forever  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As to My topic of........' The Day That Never Was '    (" 25th of Dec ")...the Deacon Admitted to me that the early christian leaders PURPOSELY made-up..............the 25th of Dec., to lure the Pagans to christianity  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
And thats all I wanted.   JUST the TRUTH .  !!!!
 
As to....'Ascention,.....or Immaculate conception,.......well he said............." look, you go into the mall (store), hear the sales pitch from the sales person, then you either BUY..or don't BUY., ....NO hard feelings either way"
 
Again, .....thats ALL I ever wanted to hear.
I'll NEVER EVER forget this person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Hey dell.  does this mean I wont get COAL in my stockin'  ???????????????   (  >  :

 
2015 year old hearsay.......Dude you kill me.

 

[ChockJockey]

As far as that goes, CJ, you have to look at ALL the European settlers. I believe the Spanish were the most ruthless towards ALL natives of the New World.

 
Be that as it may, I don't think there's anything to show that the soldiers, administrators, and churchmen that were sent on missions of claim and conquest in the New World were any more or less "low lives and scumbags" than their counterparts that stayed in Spain.

 

[ChockJockey]

As to My topic of........' The Day That Never Was '    (" 25th of Dec ")...the Deacon Admitted to me that the early christian leaders PURPOSELY made-up..............the 25th of Dec., to lure the Pagans to christianity  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
And thats all I wanted.   JUST the TRUTH .  !!!!

 
You should read the Wikipedia entry for Christmas.  You seem to be the kind of guy that likes getting a shock from what other people consider common knowledge, so prepared to be blown away.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

 
2015 year old hearsay.......Dude you kill me.

 
dell,........................." Sheppards tending thier flocks at night" does NOT correspond to the weather THEN and NOW in the Bethlehem Area.
Sorry to break that to you.
 
Back when I was a kid,....(A looooooong time ago),...NO ONE questioned what came from the sermons of priests or pastors.
 
BUT,  because all types of christians (especially the younger ones) are BOLDLY asking more questions, which is WHY  christian church leaders NOW are 'coming clean' about the attachment of early christianity, (in Christs's case) (birth) to the ancient pagan celabration of Saturnalia.
Furthermore   dell, its ANOTHER reason that  N O W H E R E in the christian bible is there a dec. 25th referrence to christs birth.
Pure coincidence you say dell (the omitance I mean)  ????
From a savvy ol' sage like you my 'brotha',................................................HARDLY.

 

[delldude]

Nothing to come clean about. Its quite easily researched.
 
Christians saw lost souls ripe for redemption in those masses who celebrated the festival called Saturnalia between Dec 17-25.
Many converted to Christianity but still wanted to party, run nekked in the streets and so on. Didn't bode too well for the home team at first, so they declared the last day of the fest to be Christ's birthday trying to separate the fest and define Christianity. Still didn't work too well as they must have had some kickasss partys.
Looks to me, in Christian tradition, they tried to convert a bunch of pagans by hijacking their holiday festival and converting them.   Took a while.
 

Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city.
LOL......Those Catholics know how to party....LOL

 

 
How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?
[SIZE=small]A.    Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25.  During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration.  The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.”  Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week.  At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.[/SIZE]
B.    The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time.  In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).
C.    In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.  Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[SIZE=12pt][2][/SIZE]
D.    The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
E.      Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia.  As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.”  The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
F.      The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who  first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[SIZE=12pt][3][/SIZE]  Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[SIZE=12pt][4][/SIZE]  However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.
G.    Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city.  An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators.  They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[SIZE=12pt][5][/SIZE]
H.     As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[SIZE=12pt][6][/SIZE]  On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country.  In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped.  Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

dell.
You read and posted the same thing I READ, soooooooooooooooooooo the 'bottom line' is that Jesus was NOT born on 12/25.
(eolesen if he's reading THIS must be shiitin' a brick by now).
 
LOOK.
Just like the TRUTH about what REALLY happened to the Indians, and how important it is to me,....all i've ever wanted was the TRUTH about Jesus's birthday, and for christianity to    S T O P  the BS about 12/25.
 
I'm starting to dig up research about JC not ascending on so called easter "SUNDAY"   !!!!!!!!!
 
I've got no personal problem with Immaculate conception, or ascention.
Why ?  Because I'm capable of using the smart 'noggin' that the CREATOR gave me. Just like the Plains Indians had no problems with the 'Jesus thing'..............DESPITE....new dudes coming into thier territory (with a ' BOOK ' tucked under thier arm) !
 
I'm guessing the choices a guy like SITTING BULL had was,..............................
 
" Lets see, do I choose door # 1 (A new guy with a 'BOOK' yapping about some guy named JESUS)................or ..door # 2 (ANOTHER new Guy with a  'BOOK ' yapping about some guy named JESUS, PLUS another guy named a POOP, I mean POPE, .....or door # 3,......our old ways of loving our children, having Great respect for our Elders, NEVER trying to take another mans Wife, or visa versa   etc. "
 
I think S B....chose 'door # 3.
 
 
"PS",
You got a "PM"
(you crotchetty old FAART)

 

[delldude]

Ancient Aliens