"The Attacks Will Be Spectacular"

[delldude]

 
Let me know when you sign up or sign up a family member.

 
Like I said, late seventies.

 

[Ifly2]

Several generations of them, like a dozen or two, actually.

And throw in the necessary truly confiscatory tax rates for everyone, to support the global occupation, along with the rationing of resources and abrogation of basic human rights.

Forget the constitutional ones, we only care if those apply to people "like us" anyway.

 

[EastUS1]

Several generations of them, like a dozen or two, actually.
 

 
And yourself personally? Assuming your reply was in reference to service.

 

[Ifly2]

I did my share, because I believed it was the right thing to do.

I am unwilling to commit several generations of my kids, or yours, either to occupying the muslim world or to the depravations that would be necessary to support such a conquest.

I also do not believe that the country would survive the crushing weight of the military effort required to do that for a long enough period of time.

Destroy IS militarily, yes.

Then follow up for once and leave something constructive in the vacuum we create.

 

[EastUS1]

I did my share, because I believed it was the right thing to do.

I am unwilling to commit several generations of my kids, or yours, either to occupying the muslim world or to the depravations that would be necessary to support such a conquest.

I also do not believe that the country would survive the crushing weight of the military effort required to do that for a long enough period of time.

Destroy IS militarily, yes.

Then follow up for once and leave something constructive in the vacuum we create.

 
1) Then you've my thanks for your service. May I ask which branch? That last not to play internet games, but by way of conversational interest.
 
2) Then you had best be willing to see us fall from external subjugation, and I'd much prefer that blood be shed rather than to EVER submit...Period. Whatever this nation's faults; it remains the very finest "social experiment", if you will, that's EVER existed in ALL of human history, and is fully worth fighting for, and if needs be, dying for.
 
3) Nonsense. Observe history in the WWII era including the Marshall Plan and the rebuilding of much of europe.
 
4) Per "destroy"? I'm much with General "Stonewall" Jackson there: "War is the sum of all evils", but our species, at least at this point in our evolution, too often provides no other at all reasonable recourse.
 
5) Per "vacuum": Nothing long abides in any stable form in our species' whole history, but we must yet do the best we can for our given societies welfare.

 

[777 fixer]

Here's the credentials of one of people you posted link to in #104.
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/author/patrick-brennan
 
Really?

 

[777 fixer]

 
Like I said, late seventies.

 
In all our previous conversations why does this all of a sudden come up?

 

[777 fixer]

2) Then you had best be willing to see us fall from external subjugation, and I'd much prefer that blood be shed rather than to EVER submit...
 
 

 
Then shed your own.  

 

[777 fixer]

3) Nonsense. Observe history in the WWII era including the Marshall Plan and the rebuilding of much of europe.
 

 
News flash.  This is not Europe circa 1945 were dealing with.

 

[EastUS1]

 
Then shed your own.  

 
I was very fortunate in the combat theater of ops and can only pray for and support the less fortunate, the actual heros, to the best of my ability. Some of us simply aren't nearly so much totally full of childish BS as yourself.

 

[Ifly2]

Navy
VAW 116 for one WestPac and workuos with CVW 2 aboard CV-61 in the airframe shop
NAS North Island Air Traffic Controller

This ain't no Marshall Plan deal.

Europe and Japan had long cultural experience with and the desire for the type of society and goverment and social institutions that favor the kind of stability and order that we consider "good". Most importantly the people were willing to work and sacrifice for a return to order and future prosperity.

In the at-question areas of the ME those balues and that history does not exist. Particularly in the IS occupied areas, much of Afghanistan, much of Pakistan, etc. Worse, those values, our values and ideas are not just not understood but also despised by significant portions of the populace, and especially by the leadership.

They are fighting what little westernization has already occurred naturally among their own people.

You know that, right?

So the Marshall Plan was a helping hand.

Accomplishing the same in the ME by force would require a brutal and total occupation of many generations, like dozens of them. An occupation forced upon a people in order to force on them a way of life that they despise and do not want.

That **** gets expensive and takes extraordinary manpower and resources, and is exactly what we are supposedly against.

We do need to step in and follow up, and help the people build a viable alternative to the Talibans, AQ, IS, etc. Education and a real middle class are vital.

We always bail on that part

 

[EastUS1]

Navy
VAW 116 for one WestPac and workuos with CVW 2 aboard CV-61 in the airframe shop
NAS North Island Air Traffic Controller

This ain't no Marshall Plan deal.

Europe and Japan had long cultural experience with and the desire for the type of society and goverment and social institutions that favor the kind of stability and order that we consider "good". Most importantly the people were willing to work and sacrifice for a return to order and future prosperity.

In the at-question areas of the ME those balues and that history does not exist. Particularly in the IS occupied areas, much of Afghanistan, much of Pakistan, etc. Worse, those values, our values and ideas are not just not understood but also despised by significant portions of the populace, and especially by the leadership.

They are fighting what little westernization has already occurred naturally among their own people.

You know that, right?

So the Marshall Plan was a helping hand.

Accomplishing the same in the ME by force would require a brutal and total occupation of many generations, like dozens of them. An occupation forced upon a people in order to force on them a way of life that they despise and do not want.

That #### gets expensive and takes extraordinary manpower and resources, and is exactly what we are supposedly against.

We do need to step in and follow up, and help the people build a viable alternative to the Talibans, AQ, IS, etc. Education and a real middle class are vital.

We always bail on that part

 
Ah! My late Father was serious Navy, serving on several carriers, while I was admittedly "merely" a USAF sort, but I've some vicarious notions of just how tough carrier ops were/no doubt still are.
 
"Accomplishing the same in the ME by force would require a brutal and total occupation.." Quite likely, but at least in my estimation, far superior to continued indulgence in the decline of western "civilization", and yes, I use that word with wry reluctance...But consider the oppositon here, that's both by religious indoctrination and the proven brainwashing of youth to be fully intent on nothing less than murderous, global conquest.
 
There is no easy answer. In conditions like we now see; oceans of blood will ultimately be spilled whatever we now choose to do, and frankly?....I'd much rather it be "theirs"....

 

[777 fixer]

 
I was very fortunate in the combat theater of ops and can only pray for and support the less fortunate, the actual heros, to the best of my ability. Some of us simply aren't nearly so much totally full of childish BS as yourself.

 
Then like I said.  Shed your own. 

 

[Ifly2]

"2) Then you had best be willing to see us fall from external subjugation"

By a group that controls a few roads and villages in Syria/Iraq, and doesn't even own any boats?

Yeah, right...

A terrorist attack on a stadium?

Yeah, that could happen. We are at war.

A couple million people are not going to "subjugate" 350 million on our own shores.

 

[777 fixer]

 
 
 
2) Then you had best be willing to see us fall from external subjugation, and I'd much prefer that blood be shed rather than to EVER submit..

 
My, what a simplistic, juvenile, talk radio world you live in.  Tell me, what country has the power to subjugate us?  And how exactly is having troops in the mid east keeping us from being subjugated.