Ted discovers success

Paul

Veteran
Nov 15, 2005
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How can an airline that charges for on-board food, offers beverages in measured quantities, and has a funny name be a success story?

Apparently, when your only choices are either to sink like Independence Air or book a permanent berth in bankruptcy court like US Airways, you start questioning the fundamental way you do business and improve your game. Of course, if you have a team of battle-hardened industry veterans supported by top notch Wharton-grade consultants, your odds are perhaps better than most. The fact that you are part of an industry colossus like United had its advantages too: established route structures, excellent aircraft maintenance facilities, and above all, easier brand association.

This is precisely how the story of Ted, the low cost carrier (LCC) within United Airlines, was described by Sean Donohue, the head of Ted and United Express; Allen Will, Director of Finance at Ted; and Andrew Watterson, Director of Mercer Management Consulting's Aviation Aerospace and Defense Practice.

Ted started as an experiment within United two years ago. Its quirky name is derived from the last three letters of UniTED, and Sean was the first to admit that he originally believed that the name was the product of someone's wicked sense of humor. However, the name grew on the airline's management team, and United's employees have embraced their 'little sibling,' and view Ted as an opportunity for them to have fun at a time when very few legacy airline employees have much to celebrate.

The basic premise was simple: utilize just one aircraft type (Airbus A320), concentrate on leisure traveler dominated routes eliminate costly frills like food, increase capacity by replacing the first class cabin (usually filled by customers redeeming frequent flyer miles or upgrading from cheap fares anyway) with Premium Economy, and what do you get? PROFITS!

The Wharton Journal
 
Ted started as an experiment within United two years ago.Just a spin off of UniTED Shuttle is all!

Just another UniTED Shuttle is all. PROFITS! Show everyone on this board exactly what TED makes in profits when UniTED as a hole still lost 128M this quarter.

Show us the money????
 
Ted started as an experiment within United two years ago.Just a spin off of UniTED Shuttle is all!

Just another UniTED Shuttle is all. PROFITS! Show everyone on this board exactly what TED makes in profits when UniTED as a hole still lost 128M this quarter.

Show us the money????

Have you been on TED? It is night and day from Shuttle By United. The people that fly on TED seem to like it. Overall I would agree that TED has been a success. You don't like it? Then fine. That is your choice and you don't work here or buy tickets so why should we care what you think.
 
ALL WE ARE ASKING IS SHOW US THE MONEY???? Everyone at UniTED claims how much profit TED brings in, but you have NEVER shown us the money. HMMMMM, great idea here! Since your management claims that TED is so profitable, why don't you as employees ask them to spot the losses of UniTED and the profits of TED in seperate SEC fillings???

You talk the talk, so show us the walk??????
 
ALL WE ARE ASKING IS SHOW US THE MONEY????

You talk the talk, so show us the walk??????

Are you a share holder? Are you planning on investing in UAUA? If not then UAL does not HAVE to show you anything. How about accounting for the big loss at F9? Got anything to prove that you are moving in the right direction? SWA is in town. TED is doing well and you are worrying like a Manning on a playoff weekend.
 
Fish,

As if United is the first company that does not break down individual unit financial results. Please try to prove that you have at least a thimble full of intelligence and come up with something more hard-hitting to swing at. The fact is that while not all TED markets are profitable, each has seen yield improvement. And many TED markets have seen incredible yield improvement.
 
Fish, Hate to admit it, but you are right on target. The data below from the USDOT shows UA yields for the latest annual period versus the prior year. Sorry if it came through a little messy. However, their is no doubt UA yields in the Ted markets are down significantly, overall down 9.1%. I've heard good things operationally about Ted but it looks like its just diluting their own yield environment at the approximate same cost structure. Sound familiar - CaLite, Shuttle by United, Song - the graveyard of carriers within a carrier.


Market YE3Q04 YE3Q05 % Chg

DEN FLL $0.0691 $0.0789 14.2%
DEN LAS $0.1896 $0.1842 -2.8%
DEN MCO $0.0933 $0.0897 -3.8%
DEN MDW $0.1967 $0.1095 -44.3%
DEN MIA $0.1036 $0.1015 -2.0%
DEN ONT $0.1528 $0.1476 -3.4%
DEN PHX $0.2002 $0.1993 -0.5%
DEN RNO $0.1520 $0.1545 1.6%
DEN TPA $0.0868 $0.0874 0.6%
Total $0.1258 $0.1212 -3.7%

IAD FLL $0.0922 $0.1024 11.0%
IAD LAS $0.0960 $0.0767 -20.1%
IAD MCO $0.1658 $0.1393 -16.0%
IAD MIA $0.1572 $0.1382 -12.1%
IAD SJU $0.0984 $0.1005 2.1%
IAD TPA $0.1505 $0.1280 -15.0%
Total $0.1256 $0.1083 -13.8%

LAX LAS $0.2884 $0.2653 -8.0%
LAX PHX $0.2287 $0.1909 -16.5%
Total $0.2829 $0.2618 -7.5%

ORD FLL $0.0939 $0.0779 -17.0%
ORD LAS $0.0820 $0.0786 -4.1%
ORD MCO $0.1198 $0.0961 -19.8%
ORD MIA $0.1263 $0.1060 -16.0%
ORD PBI $0.1292 $0.0997 -22.9%
ORD PHX $0.0830 $0.0783 -5.6%
ORD SJU $0.0796 $0.0750 -5.9%
ORD TPA $0.1085 $0.0877 -19.2%
Total $0.0959 $0.0845 -11.9%

Above Total $0.1127 $0.1025 -9.1%
 
Above Total $0.1127 $0.1025 -9.1%

Couple of quick questions:
Is that yield per ASM?
Did you correct for routes that were mainline last year?
(going from 138 to 156 seats adds 13% more seats, I'd accept a 9.1% drop in yeild if I increased capacity by 13% at minimal cost)
IAD was a big loser... I wonder if a certain airline in the throws of death had anything to do with it? Would you think they'll rebound?
 
ALL WE ARE ASKING IS SHOW US THE MONEY????

Smelly Fish,

One simple question... why?

UA clearly states that they do not publicly report the revenue of various United products. Why should they show their hand to anyone? Least of all you?

No one here cares what you believe anyway. You are an insignificant spec in the grand airline universe.

If you want to see the money, just follow the cash position and operating profits in the coming quarters. That is all you need to see. The rest is smoke and mirrors anyway.

P.S. good luck at F9. :lol:
 
Couple of quick questions:
Is that yield per ASM?
Did you correct for routes that were mainline last year?
(going from 138 to 156 seats adds 13% more seats, I'd accept a 9.1% drop in yield if I increased capacity by 13% at minimal cost)
IAD was a big loser... I wonder if a certain airline in the throws of death had anything to do with it? Would you think they'll rebound?


And not all of those routes were even operated by an Airbus last year, (ie ORD-PBI was done a lot on the 737) so the seat increase is even more dramatic.

Or even operated at all like DEN-MDW or LAX-PHX (was a express route)

DC
 
767 No one here cares what you believe anyway. You are an insignificant spec in the grand airline universe.

HMM wonder why you say that? Because you hate me? I don't give a ####! UniTED suxs, it will always suc and we'll ALL be watching those profits rolling in "YEAH RIGHT"! Time will tell, but alot of folks think UniTED will follow in the foot steps of USAIR and BK II. I guess your the man that will whole heartidly be the saving grace of that shitty company! :up:
 
Show the yeild???? How hard it that????
Please give us just one good reason why United should provide competitively-sensitive market-specific information (beyond what's required by the DOT and SEC) to its competitors like Frontier and Southwest, much less to know-nothing United-haters like yourself.

And as Busdrvr noted, PRASM is a much better indicator of a route's financial performance than yield because it takes passenger loads into account. Plus please also answer these three additional questions that Busdrvr didn't ask: 1.) Aren't these just local O&D yields that don't reflect the impact of connecting passengers on a route's performance? 2.) Wouldn't one expect the ratio of local to connecting passengers to be different on each route? 3.) And wouldn't one expect that ratio on each route to change at least a little bit from year to year, especially if the route changed from mainline to Ted?
 
Without commenting on Fishy's viewpoint, most analysts agree that whether or not Ted is really profitable or not is going to be a moot point as long as there's no way to truly allocate all of the costs for services provided by corporate. It's the same problem that Song has(had) with Delta.

The only airline I can think of who was able to truly show that their LCC airline within an airline was profitable was BA, and that's because they treated Go! as as an entirely different company, and not as a sub-brand or a division of the parent company.
 

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