Teamster Representation Questions

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I have a few questions for the United Airlines Mechnaics?

I am a AA mechnics who just attended a IBT organizing meeting here in Miami Fl. I was told by the IBT intl reps that UAL is building 2 new hangers because they have brought mre work back in house that was contracted out either by them or IAM or AMFA. They didn't say when it was farmed out. My question is it true that they have done this?

I was also told that there is a job protection clause in the contract that if you get a layoff notice and bump into a staion that NO ONE will have to leave the station you bump into. The station you elect to go how ever that process at UAL works will just absorb you.

I was also told that they are going to merge the seniority list by end of yr. The question is at one time at LAX the jr guy was 18yrs give or take so if you got laid off and have not been recalled your working in ORD and when the seniority list is completed that the CAL guys with less time than you will remain and you with 18 yrs if commuting back and forth from ORD to LAX will remain. Is that what you want? Is this true?

I have also been told that AMFA is dead at UAL and also been told a card drive will begin once contract and intergration of CAL/UAL is complete which is TRUE?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I have a few questions for the United Airlines Mechnaics?

I am a AA mechnics who just attended a IBT organizing meeting here in Miami Fl. I was told by the IBT intl reps that UAL is building 2 new hangers because they have brought mre work back in house that was contracted out either by them or IAM or AMFA. They didn't say when it was farmed out. My question is it true that they have done this?

I was also told that there is a job protection clause in the contract that if you get a layoff notice and bump into a staion that NO ONE will have to leave the station you bump into. The station you elect to go how ever that process at UAL works will just absorb you.

I was also told that they are going to merge the seniority list by end of yr. The question is at one time at LAX the jr guy was 18yrs give or take so if you got laid off and have not been recalled your working in ORD and when the seniority list is completed that the CAL guys with less time than you will remain and you with 18 yrs if commuting back and forth from ORD to LAX will remain. Is that what you want? Is this true?

I have also been told that AMFA is dead at UAL and also been told a card drive will begin once contract and intergration of CAL/UAL is complete which is TRUE?

The two new hangers are primarily for the new 787s on order, not any return of outsourced work.

There is no furlough protections for those who were on property at date of signing. We are currently in negotiations for an amalgamated agreement, whether that protection survives or not is unknown.

The seniority issue has not been decided yet, the ibt has shared next to no information on when the final decision will be made.

At this point in time it makes little sense to file cards. Just as an example, if UAL were to file, the ibt would no doubt argue to include the CAL mechanics in the vote to dilute the numbers, and vice versa on a CAL first filing. UAL management has called all bargaining groups back to the table in an attempt to get agreements in place by years end, it is therefore advantageous for the drives in question to wait until the agreements are in place and collect and file on one group at the combined United.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The two new hangers are primarily for the new 787s on order, not any return of outsourced work. So the hangers were not to be built because of anything that the IBT did?

There is no furlough protections for those who were on property at date of signing. We are currently in negotiations for an amalgamated agreement, whether that protection survives or not is unknown. Can you be a bit more specific? IBT says no one will get laid off while cba is is place. That if UAL closed a station it will absorb any mechanic at any station he goes too? Is that just due the ongoing negotiations or part of something they have in your contract?

The seniority issue has not been decided yet, the ibt has shared next to no information on when the final decision will be made. IBT Intl told me it was going to be done by end of yr and that is was going to done totally by seniority. I assumed occupational. Not 1 Ual then 1 CAL but by date then age or how ever you guys go by to determin who is senior if hred same day.

At this point in time it makes little sense to file cards. Just as an example, if UAL were to file, the ibt would no doubt argue to include the CAL mechanics in the vote to dilute the numbers, and vice versa on a CAL first filing. UAL management has called all bargaining groups back to the table in an attempt to get agreements in place by years end, it is therefore advantageous for the drives in question to wait until the agreements are in place and collect and file on one group at the combined United.

I understand collecting cards now would be futile I was just curious of how UAL felt about AMFA and would they switch back? What is feeling about IBT and the job they are doing since taking over for AMFA?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I understand collecting cards now would be futile I was just curious of how UAL felt about AMFA and would they switch back? What is feeling about IBT and the job they are doing since taking over for AMFA?

No the hangars have nothing to do with anything the ibt has done.

Here is a link to one news story on the Newark hangar:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/United_charter_firm_announce_Newark_Airport_improvements.html

We have "no layoff" protection for the duration of our contract for those who were on property at date of signing. Our contract becomes amendable in mid 2013, the company and the union are in negotiations to close a new deal before years end. The protection is in our current agreement, it is not limited to only one station move. ie a mechanic might be bumped to more than one station, this is subject to seniority. There is no guarantee that the "no layoff" clause will survive as-is into the next agreement.

The last news we received on seniority integration was that due to UALs concent decree language (language put into our CBA by the courts decades ago) that seniority will be ordered by Date of Hire. The problem is, we've heard nothing on the implementation and we've heard alot about legal challenges by CAL AMTs who do not want to be integrated by DOH. Thus we're still waiting on a final determination.

AMFA or ibt? It would depend on who you ask.

There are two drives at UAL unfortunately at cross purposes, while there is agreement on leaving the ibt, the choice as to where to go is split. There are those that wish to return to AMFA, and those that have secured assurances from the IAM and wish to return there.

Speaking only for myself, the ibt is by far the worst of the 3 unions I've been apart of at UAL. That said, any union change must also be met with a mindset change by the majority of this membership. Too many simply sit back and watch, too busy with other things to take an active roll in their union and its day-to-day activities. Apathy is the biggest proble we face at UAL.

JMHO

 

[xUT]

The two new hangers are primarily for the new 787s on order, not any return of outsourced work.

There is no furlough protections for those who were on property at date of signing. We are currently in negotiations for an amalgamated agreement, whether that protection survives or not is unknown.

The seniority issue has not been decided yet, the ibt has shared next to no information on when the final decision will be made.

At this point in time it makes little sense to file cards. Just as an example, if UAL were to file, the ibt would no doubt argue to include the CAL mechanics in the vote to dilute the numbers, and vice versa on a CAL first filing. UAL management has called all bargaining groups back to the table in an attempt to get agreements in place by years end, it is therefore advantageous for the drives in question to wait until the agreements are in place and collect and file on one group at the combined United.

Interesting. Since SFO has (had) several hangers in SFO that have been empty for years, why the new hangers in Newark?
IIRC Dock 5 & 6 could handle 757/767 so one would think a 787 would fit as well.
What's the story?
B) xUT

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Interesting. Since SFO has (had) several hangers in SFO that have been empty for years, why the new hangers in Newark?
IIRC Dock 5 & 6 could handle 757/767 so one would think a 787 would fit as well.
What's the story?
B) xUT

We are "United" in name only.

The 787s are being deployed from sCAL stations ... every other fleet type is having routes restructured throughout the system but the "New Girl" belongs to the Ex-Cons alone.

At least for now.

 

[xUT]

We are "United" in name only.

The 787s are being deployed from sCAL stations ... every other fleet type is having routes restructured throughout the system but the "New Girl" belongs to the Ex-Cons alone.

At least for now.

Thanks TSH,

Looks like it doesn't bode well for the SFO MOC. Could be that they are getting a free hanger from NJ like they did in INDY. But still NJ is a high cost of living area as well as inclement weather issues (Heated and Cooled hangers).
I haven't been back to SFO since I was walked out in 2008 ( even though I live less than 15 miles away) and since then my old friends and contacts have been laid off, took the early out, don't care, retired and/or moved on to other ventures.

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to have hangers in NJ and leave empty hangers in SFO unless the SFO MOC is slated to be terminated.
What does the infamous ibt tell you guys about this?

Good Luck and Take Care,
B) xUT

 

[TWU informer]

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

How is the intergration of the CAL & UAL guys going with the Teamsters?

Are they working on solving this or have they been just jerking you both along?

What are they talking about doing away with at either company as they combine the two contracts?

Do they plan on having the intergration done or contract first? Just what are they telling you?

 

[swamt]

The two new hangers are primarily for the new 787s on order, not any return of outsourced work.

There is no furlough protections for those who were on property at date of signing. We are currently in negotiations for an amalgamated agreement, whether that protection survives or not is unknown.

The seniority issue has not been decided yet, the ibt has shared next to no information on when the final decision will be made.

At this point in time it makes little sense to file cards. Just as an example, if UAL were to file, the ibt would no doubt argue to include the CAL mechanics in the vote to dilute the numbers, and vice versa on a CAL first filing. UAL management has called all bargaining groups back to the table in an attempt to get agreements in place by years end, it is therefore advantageous for the drives in question to wait until the agreements are in place and collect and file on one group at the combined United.

"The seniority issue has not been decided yet, the ibt has shared next to no information on when the final decision will be made."

The ibt will never share information about how they are going to integrate the senoirity. They will do it however they want to do it. And the way they do it will be determained how it affects all the officers. In other words they will protect their owns a$$es first, then look at the membership.
If you guys would have kept AMFA, the membership would have told the union how to handle the integration. Just like the membership did over at SWA with integrating AT. This is what the AA guys need to consider with their, soon to be, senoirity integrations coming up. Good luck to all of you...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

SWAMT

Although you have gone thru this at SWA and know how the IBT works and all of the info you have posted here to help us at AA, I and other apprieciate, I am LOOKing for answers from UAL and or CAl guys, so that when i repeat it or ask where I heard it I can say from a UAL/IBT represented employee.

So again if any CAL or UAL mechanics can answer the questions I have asked it would be helpful

Thanks

AMFA@AA

 

[swamt]

SWAMT

Although you have gone thru this at SWA and know how the IBT works and all of the info you have posted here to help us at AA, I and other apprieciate, I am LOOKing for answers from UAL and or CAl guys, so that when i repeat it or ask where I heard it I can say from a UAL/IBT represented employee.

So again if any CAL or UAL mechanics can answer the questions I have asked it would be helpful

Thanks

AMFA@AA

I was not addressing your post. I was addressing 3rd seats post. Not answering your questions at all...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

How are the negotiations Going over at UAL?

What type of job do you the mechanics of UAL feel the Teamsters are doing to better your contract?

 

[xUT]

How are the negotiations Going over at UAL?

What type of job do you the mechanics of UAL feel the Teamsters are doing to better your contract?

Good luck getting an answer here.
Even Anomaly (a supposed UAL Mechanic) does not post here.
Don't bother with 'the-amt.com' as it appears to be shut down as well.
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

How are the negotiations Going over at UAL?

What type of job do you the mechanics of UAL feel the Teamsters are doing to better your contract?

Good luck getting an answer here.
Even Anomaly (a supposed UAL Mechanic) does not post here.
Don't bother with 'the-amt.com' as it appears to be shut down as well.
B) xUT

No, xUT, I will post here and respond to questions, but do not wish to be baited in to a #### session with a deaf audience. AMFA in Miami, as well as all of you who have responded to his original question (only one of you a UAL mechanic, by the way) have provided significant history on this site that you are simply against the Teamsters no matter what I or others may answer. You or others will undoubtedly pick apart and try to dismiss as lies anything I say in a poor attempt to spread your anger and distrust.

However, for any of the others who may come across this thread, here you go.

First, the hangar. There are two new hangars planned on the East coast to facilitate both new aircraft purchase orders and work formerly sent to outside contractors. The Teamsters are working to bring back formerly contracted out maintenance such as MOD work on various aircraft models. Work on UA aircraft formerly done by Timco on the East Coast is now being done by CO stations also on the East Coast who are now UA mechanics.

On your lay off question; there are no lay offs under the terms of the agreement in place until we reach a single contract. There is no bumping.

Your scenario for seniority in regards to lay off does not exist because LAX has recalled all of the formerly furloughed mechanics at UAL including those that may have been commuting from ORD. Many stations in fact have exhausted their recall lists. There are still many furloughed mechanics out there and some from closed stations such as Indy but the new contract is designed to recall in order of seniority. If you are the most senior and displaced from your station, you will be recalled before any one junior is allowed to accept any vacancy. In fact, per Article 5, there are NO VACANCIES while an active recall list exists.

You also questioned the merging of the seniority list and got a bogus answer from Third Seat Hero. I say it is bogus and he knows why. As I have explained many times before: the seniority issue at UAL is not an issue for the Teamsters or any union representing mechanics. TSH knows this. It does not matter what the unions say on the subject of mechanic seniority at UAL. UAL was sued in federal court years ago and the result of that suit dictates our seniority, not the union or management. Our list will be merged according to court order. This court order happens to be in line with the philosophies of the IBT which is hire date for lay off and recall, craft date for everything else. For most of us mechanics the two dates are one in the same but for some there is an adjustment.

The Teamsters did not come right out and take a hard line stand on this which upset many of us but I am now gaining a decent understanding of why. Although our seniority is a court order, the contract is clear that negotiations for an amalgamated agreement between two merged carriers can NOT continue until an agreement in seniority is met. The Teamsters were rightly concerned that taking a hard stance would force any mechanic groups in opposition to call for a legal challenge of the law and hold up the process of a new contract for possibly years. Two independent law firms reported that such a challenge would be pointless. A legal firm hired by a group of mechanics who were against hire date in favor of rank ratio also issued the opinion that a civil suit would be a great waste of time and money. Some of us incorrectly believed that the Teamsters were involved in some type of political or organizing stunt in order to hold off any embarrassment, but it is becoming more and more clear that they simply were allowing those who opposed hire date seniority the chance to see for themselves the problems and expense of fighting this lost cause. It is vary apparent to all of us at UA including TSH that date of hire is the most fair basis for merging the seniority list. Some at CO did not see that at first but they are coming to understand that a rank ratio, or crediting years of seniority would not be the right thing to do. The Teamsters allowed the time needed for those groups who opposed it at first to realize the legal walls in place rather than acting like tyrants and telling them what to do. I for one am OK with this now that I know see more of the big picture.

As for the card drive; I have never known a time when amfa has begun a card drive after a contract has been agreed other than a concessionary bankruptcy agreement such as the one we had at UA in the mid 2000's. UA mechanics are earning more money and are better off than we have been in years. There are some issues with payroll and a few management problems, but our new Teamster contract is by far better than anything we have seen from the other two unions which represented us. I expect even more progress from the next agreement which is currently being negotiated. If there was a card drive at UA, it would surely be on the amfa web site. There is none to be found.