Split topic- From the AA board

[bagstacker]

A quote from an American:

"War is an art and as such is not susceptible of explanation by fixed formula"
- General George Patton Jr

It took him a while to get around to being an American!

From Wikipedia - "Patton, along with many other members of his family, often claimed to have seen vivid, lifelike visions of his ancestors. He was a staunch believer in reincarnation, and much anecdotal evidence indicates that he held himself to be the reincarnation of the Carthaginian general Hannibal, a Roman legionnaire, a Napoleonic field marshal, and various other historical military figures."

I wonder who/where he is now?

Patton was a fascinating and complex character, much more so than portrayed in the 1972 movie "Patton" which was concerned with his WWII exploits. Many other works, including his own memoir, War as I Knew It, give a fuller, more rounded look at Patton IMHO.

 

[local 12 proud]

It took him a while to get around to being an American!

Oh really...how so?

I would suggest he was quite the Quintessential American!

BIOGRAPHY OF GENERAL GEORGE S. PATTON, JR.
One of the most complicated military men of all time, General George Smith Patton, Jr. was born November 11, 1885 in San Gabriel, California. He was known for carrying pistols with ivory handles and his intemperate manner, and is regarded as one of the most successful United States field commanders of any war. He continually strove to train his troops to the highest standard of excellence.

Patton decided during childhood that his goal in life was to become a hero. His ancestors had fought in the Revolutionary War, the Mexican War and the Civil War, and he grew up listening to stories of their brave and successful endeavors. He attended the Virginia Military Institute for one year and went on to graduate from the United States Military Academy at West Point on June 11, 1909. He was then commissioned a Second Lieutenant in the 15th cavalry Regiment.

Patton married Beatrice Ayer, whom he dated while at West Point, on May 26, 1910. In 1912 he represented the United States at the Stockholm Olympics in the first Modern Pentathlon. Originally open only to military officers, it was considered a rigorous test of the skills a soldier should possess. Twenty-six year old Patton did remarkably well in the multi-event sport, consisting of pistol shooting from 25 meters, sword fencing, a 300 meter free style swim, 800 meters horse back riding and a 4-kilometer cross country run. He placed fifth overall, despite a disappointing development in the shooting portion. While most chose .22 revolvers, Patton felt the event's military roots garnered a more appropriate weapon, the .38. During the competition Patton was docked for missing the target, though he contended the lost bullet had simply passed through a large opening created by previous rounds from the .38, which left considerably larger holes.

After the Olympics, Patton kept busy taking lessons at the French cavalry School and studying French sword drills. In the summer of 1913, Patton received orders to report to the commandant of the Mounted Service School in Fort Riley, Kansas, where he became the school's first Master of the Sword. He designed and taught a course in swordsmanship while he was a student at the school.

Patton's first real exposure to battle occurred when he served as a member of legendary General John J. Pershing's staff during the expedition to Mexico. In 1915, Patton was sent to Fort Bliss along the Mexican border where he led routine cavalry patrols. A year later, he accompanied Pershing as an aide on his expedition against Francisco "Pancho" Villa into Mexico. Patton gained recognition from the press for his attacks on several of Villa's men.

Impressed by Patton's determination, Pershing promoted him to Captain and asked him to command his Headquarters Troop upon their return from Mexico. With the onset of World War I in 1914, tanks were not being widely used. In 1917, however, Patton became the first member of the newly established United States Tank Corps, where he served until the Corps were abolished in 1920. He took full command of the Corps, directing ideas, procedures and even the design of their uniforms. Along with the British tankers, he and his men achieved victory at Cambrai, France, during the world's first major tank battle in 1917.

Using his first-hand knowledge of tanks, Patton organized the American tank school in Bourg, France and trained the first 500 American tankers. He had 345 tanks by the time he took the brigade into the Meuse-Argonne Operation in September 1918. When they entered into battle, Patton had worked out a plan where he could be in the front lines maintaining communications with his rear command post by means of pigeons and a group of runners. Patton continually exposed himself to gunfire and was shot once in the leg while he was directing the tanks. His actions during that battle earned him the Distinguished Service Cross for Heroism, one of the many medals he would collect during his lifetime.

An outspoken advocate for tanks, Patton saw them as the future of modern combat. Congress, however, was not willing to appropriate funds to build a large armored force. Even so, Patton studied, wrote extensively and carried out experiments to improve radio communications between tanks. He also helped invent the co-axial tank mount for cannons and machine guns.

After WWI, Patton held a variety of staff jobs in Hawaii and Washington, D.C. He graduated from the Command and General Staff School in 1924, and completed his military schooling as a distinguished graduate of the Army War College in 1932.

When the German Blitzkrieg began on Europe, Patton finally convinced Congress that the United States needed a more powerful armored striking force. With the formation of the Armored Force in 1940, he was transferred to the Second Armored Division at Fort Benning, Georgia and named Commanding General on April 11, 1941. Two months later, Patton appeared on the cover of Life magazine. Also during this time, Patton began giving his famous "Blood and Guts" speeches in an amphitheater he had built to accommodate the entire division.

The United States officially entered World War II in December 1941, after the attack on Pearl Harbor. By November 8, 1942, Patton was commanding the Western Task Force, the only all-American force landing for Operation Torch, the Allied invasion of North Africa. After succeeding there, Patton commanded the Seventh Army during the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and in conjunction with the British Eighth Army restored Sicily to its citizens.

Patton commanded the Seventh Army until 1944, when he was given command of the Third Army in France. Patton and his troops dashed across Europe after the battle of Normandy and exploited German weaknesses with great success, covering the 600 miles across France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia. When the Third Army liberated the Buchenwald concentration camp, Patton slowed his pace. He instituted a policy, later adopted by other commanders, of making local German civilians tour the camps. By the time WWII was over, the Third Army had liberated or conquered 81,522 square miles of territory.

In October 1945, Patton assumed command of the Fifteenth Army in American-occupied Germany. On December 9, he suffered injuries as the result of an automobile accident. He died 12 days later, on December 21, 1945 and is buried among the soldiers who died in the Battle of the Bulge in Hamm, Luxembourg.

Remembered for his fierce determination and ability to lead soldiers, Patton is now considered one of the greatest military figures in history. The 1970 film, "Patton," starring George C. Scott in the title role, provoked renewed interest in Patton. The movie won seven Academy Awards, including Best Actor and Best Picture, and immortalized General George Smith Patton, Jr. as one of the world's most intriguing military men.

I wonder who/where he is now?

Probably rolling over in his grave with shame from cowards like you who call themselves Americans!

 

[bagstacker]

Oh really...how so?

I would suggest he was quite the Quintessential American!
Probably rolling over in his grave with shame from cowards like you who call themselves Americans!

Well, if you read my post, I referred to his belief in re-incarnation, but I guess it went over your head.

Further reading would also reveal that I do not disagree with your assesment of Patton, he was one of the greatest generals of WWII, in any army. As I pointed out, I know more about him than the movie or google has to offer. I've read his memoir and many other works about him. Have you?

And lastly, as I've pointed out before, you and the rest of the fighting keyboardists can call me all the names you want, but it won't change the fact of failure of imagination and leadership that we are neck-deep in(and rising!), courtesy of the failed policies and neglect of the resident of the White House and his handlers. Oh, and let's not forget the do-nothing-but-give-themselves-pay-raises republican congress.

I've seen your whiny-victim, screwed-by-the-man routine all over this board. But now you shill for conservative policies (the very ones who are screwing you the most) - sounds to me like you are saying," Thank you boss, may I have another beating please mister boss-man?" Maybe you really LIKE getting screwed by the man?

That's realllll tough!

 

[local 12 proud]

Well, if you read my post, I referred to his belief in re-incarnation, but I guess it went over your head.

I read your post and not unlike most mere mortals, the Man probably struggled with his beliefs.

Do you have a window to his soul?

Further reading would also reveal that I do not disagree with your assesment of Patton, he was one of the greatest generals of WWII, in any army.

actually this is what you said:

"Patton was a fascinating and complex character"

I've read his memoir and many other works about him. Have you?

Yes!

And lastly, as I've pointed out before, you and the rest of the fighting keyboardists can call me all the names you want, but it won't change the fact of failure of imagination and leadership that we are neck-deep in(and rising!), courtesy of the failed policies and neglect of the resident of the White House and his handlers.

The only thing you've pointed out like the rest of your left wing 'cut-n-run' tree hugging buddies is that "we're in a quagmire", "we can't win this war", "we've created this hatred"...blaaa blaaa blaaa mantra!

I've seen your whiny-victim, screwed-by-the-man routine all over this board.

Boy if that is'nt the pot calling kettle black..

now you shill for conservative policies (the very ones who are screwing you the most)

Well if you would have read my many post you would've known by now that neither party Demicans/Republicrats are working for the Middle class IMHO.
Traditionally I've been a conservative Democrat all my life but that party has gone completely off the deep end, and many Americans seem to agree.

That's realllll tough!

You left wing radicals have encouraged many democrats to abandon the party.

Now Thats reallll tough, Deal with it!

 

[local 12 proud]

I guess great minds think alike, eh, local 12?

Seems this guy had you panty waist's pegged long ago!

A few quotes from the Chinese General Sun-Tzu, c.500–320. B.C.E., author of the ancient treatise The Art of War.

-The supreme excellence is to subdue the armies of your enemies without even having to fight them.

 

[bagstacker]

I read your post and not unlike most mere mortals, the Man probably struggled with his beliefs.

Do you have a window to his soul?
actually this is what you said:



Yes!
The only thing you've pointed out like the rest of your left wing 'cut-n-run' tree hugging buddies is that "we're in a quagmire", "we can't win this war", "we've created this hatred"...blaaa blaaa blaaa mantra!

Boy if that is'nt the pot calling kettle black..



Well if you would have read my many post you would've known by now that neither party Demicans/Republicrats are working for the Middle class IMHO.
Traditionally I've been a conservative Democrat all my life but that party has gone completely off the deep end, and many Americans seem to agree.
You left wing radicals have encouraged many democrats to abandon the party.

Now Thats reallll tough, Deal with it!

Me, a radical? Ha! Of course, if you believe that the Constitution is something besides bird-cage liner, or that the rule of law means anything, it is enough for some people to brand you an enemy of the state.

Shows just how far to the right some folks have veered.
If, by radical, you mean someone who wants to see a Democratic Party that is something other than Republican Light/Corpora-crat beltway-bandit types that until recently held all the cards, I'm your huckleberry. B)

 

[Garfield1966]

On behalf of Clinton, and as much as I hate it BushII also.

Regarding 9/11. I don’t think anyone was thinking that what ended up happening actually could or would happen. Clinton took actions that put Bin Laden on the radar. He launched a few missiles which were viewed as a diversion form his domestic issues. Had he or anyone else for that mater come out and said we need to be wary of a "major" attack on US soil that could jeopardize up wards of 4,000 us lives in one fell swoop, that person would have been laughed off the podium. One can argue that is exactly what we pay the CIA/FBI to do. To think of the worst possible crap that can happen and protect us from it. It is glaringly obvious that no one saw this one coming.

My opinion is that this nation, as the article that TWA pointed out tends to be very reactionary instead of proactive. We are consistently a day late and a dollar short in what ever we seem to do. Our paranoia is turning us into a closed society. There is some www out there (gross.com) or something along those lines that had the videos of all the beheadings that took place in the ME. According to them, they have had to change servers several times (ended up moving their server off shore) due to the US government wanting the site shut down. Seems they did not want us looking at the cruel reality of war. Our government does not want us to know what goes on. They do not want us to see the flag draped coffins coming off the transports from war torn areas so they ban it ‘out of respect’ for the families. That picture of the coffins lined up in the cargo hold was not disrespectful. Heart breaking yes, somber yes. Disrespectful no way. If anything it made us sit up and take notice. It made us realize that there are real lives at risk.

One other thing I noticed. When I was in Europe recently, I noticed that the news covering the ME was quite a bit different. Seemed more balanced. They showed what was going on more than one side. I am not sure if that is because of self censorship on the part of US media, the fact that the Europeans do not really have a dog in the fight so they don’t have to make one side out better than the other, or our government placing subtle hints that you can only show so much. My suspicion is that it is a combination of all the above.

 

[Garfield1966]

Ahh, looks like the rats are starting to jump ship.

I was just reading that Cong Shays a rep from Connecticut has decided that we need a fixed time line for a with drawal out of Iraq becase "little progress has been made." He also said that "We need to send a very powerful message to the Iraqui people that there is not an open checkbook and our troops are not always going to be in harm's way indefinitly". I have not looked but I am guessing he is up for re-election this term. I could be wrong though.

I am betting there are alot of Sen and Cong running scared right now and wondering how they are going to sell this. I guess there is a bright side. If the people can be made ot belive that a VP who got 5 deferments and a Pres who guarded Alabama are more patriotic than a man who served 1 full tour in Nam and re-uped for a 2nd tour on a swift boat, they should have no problem of selling their flip-flop to the people.

 

[local 12 proud]

On behalf of Clinton, and as much as I hate it BushII also.

Regarding 9/11. I don’t think anyone was thinking that what ended up happening actually could or would happen. Clinton took actions that put Bin Laden on the radar. He launched a few missiles which were viewed as a diversion form his domestic issues.

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20031021-090350-3425r.htm

With all this information in mind, there is one important question regarding Bill Clinton's claim that he warned Mr. Bush about the al Qaeda threat. If Mr. Clinton did believe bin Laden posed the most serious danger to America's security, why didn't he take the opportunities he had to stop him?

"No Thanks"

I'm your huckleberry. B)

Your a daisy if ya do!

 

[delldude]

I don’t think anyone was thinking that what ended up happening actually could or would happen. Clinton took actions that put Bin Laden on the radar.

Like Trade center was hit under Bill the first time....and what happened? They regrouped and did it right under W.
All kind of intell available to Bill but he liked governing via the Poll....If you check he was very very wary of doing anything that would affect his popularity in the Polls.Remember the Somalia thingy?Hows about that Bosnia/Serbia involvement?Another war done by polls and politicians....?? and who did it cost the most?

Had he or anyone else for that mater come out and said we need to be wary of a "major" attack on US soil that could jeopardize up wards of 4,000 us lives in one fell swoop, that person would have been laughed off the podium.

Don't forget TeeWay 700, oops....funny,lots of crap swept under the rug right before elections.....like some 150 eyewitness' accounts never seriously looked into.Can't have any dirty laundry before the mid terms ya' know....

One can argue that is exactly what we pay the CIA/FBI to do. To think of the worst possible crap that can happen and protect us from it. It is glaringly obvious that no one saw this one coming.

Its been brought to the front page regarding all our agency's not sharing intell...well if you do a check this non-sharing of info between rival agency's was promoted under Bill.I forget her name but she was in some capacity and she set up these walls between agency sharing that were put in place to prevent different justice departments from sharing info that were detrimental to Bill and Hillie's past indiscretitons that were being investigated.

Our government does not want us to know what goes on. They do not want us to see the flag draped coffins coming off the transports from war torn areas so they ban it ‘out of respect’ for the families. That picture of the coffins lined up in the cargo hold was not disrespectful. Heart breaking yes, somber yes. Disrespectful no way. If anything it made us sit up and take notice. It made us realize that there are real lives at risk.

No,its how the media turned public opinion against the war in Vietnam....and made it into a political hot potato.(Dem controlled media BTW)

One other thing I noticed. When I was in Europe recently, I noticed that the news covering the ME was quite a bit different. Seemed more balanced. They showed what was going on more than one side. I am not sure if that is because of self censorship on the part of US media, the fact that the Europeans do not really have a dog in the fight so they don’t have to make one side out better than the other, or our government placing subtle hints that you can only show so much. My suspicion is that it is a combination of all the above.

Yeah,lopsided reports from the big three-CBS,ABC,NBC who will do their damned best to make W and his party look real bad so the Dem's have a better than even chance in the next election....funny,never hear any good news from Iraq now do we?? Only bombings,shootings etc....there are more humanitarian stories to see but YOUR favorite news media's are the ones censoring what you see....