Spirit to Start LAX-PHL daily non-stop - eff 4/14/16

[jcw]

When will AA start mixing metal on routes other than hub to hub?

I think they have been doing it for a while (i.e. RDU to LAX or PIT to LAX or IAH to CLT)

 

[eolesen]

It was a loss-leader for Piedmont, but PeoplExpress never had the market share that Piedmont enjoyed because they offered no services except a cramped seat.  In the aftermath of PeoplExpress' demise, their top managers said that was the only route they served that never showed any profit.

PS - I was a Norfolk-based 727 FE and FO during that period.  I watched it happen.

PI had the market share because they operated 7x daily to PE's 5x. Not too difficult to have higher marketshare when you dump capacity and under-price your product. That's the same behavior that got AA in trouble several times with startups (Legend, Vanguard, Access) although predatory behavior was never actually proven in court....

BTW, PE never "demised". I was there -- we became CO, and the EWR hub remains a cornerstone of UA's network today.

Meanwhile, the PI hubs at BWI and DAY are long-gone from the US (now AA) network.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Ahh Legend...those all F class F-100's.Used to be a stampede to raid the galley on that one at LGA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

PI had the market share because they operated 7x daily to PE's 5x. Not too difficult to have higher marketshare when you dump capacity and under-price your product. That's the same behavior that got AA in trouble several times with startups (Legend, Vanguard, Access) although predatory behavior was never actually proven in court....

BTW, PE never "demised". I was there -- we became CO, and the EWR hub remains a cornerstone of UA's network today.

Meanwhile, the PI hubs at BWI and DAY are long-gone from the US (now AA) network.

 
Sure, those hubs are gone.  
 
How are the CO hubs at GSO (the one that was going to push USAirways into the Atlantic Ocean, remember?) and CLE doing for UA these days?

 

[dash8roa]

with the type of service NK offers Id say it should not be too hard to squash them out of the market

Let NK cater to the Clampetts.  

 

[Hope777]

PI had the market share because they operated 7x daily to PE's 5x. Not too difficult to have higher marketshare when you dump capacity and under-price your product. That's the same behavior that got AA in trouble several times with startups (Legend, Vanguard, Access) although predatory behavior was never actually proven in court....

BTW, PE never "demised". I was there -- we became CO, and the EWR hub remains a cornerstone of UA's network today.

Meanwhile, the PI hubs at BWI and DAY are long-gone from the US (now AA) network.

And WHY is EWR the way it is today???  Gordon !  You know the Good Ole Boy that was run off from USAir.  He knew what EWR was and could be.  He went on to make a Sweetheart Deal with USAir.   Swapping LGA Assets for the Pull Down of EWR.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

The late founder and CEO of the Winston-Salem-based Piedmont Airlines had the perfect solution to the low-fare intruders.  When PeoplExpress started their very first route (EWR-ORF) it was in direct competition with PIA.  Tom Davis bought several B727-200s (the first of that model for that airline) 
 
Was Tom Davis still CEO the at that point, or had Bill "Boss Hogg" Howard taken over by then?

 

[nycbusdriver]

 

The late founder and CEO of the Winston-Salem-based Piedmont Airlines had the perfect solution to the low-fare intruders.  When PeoplExpress started their very first route (EWR-ORF) it was in direct competition with PIA.  Tom Davis bought several B727-200s (the first of that model for that airline) 
 
Was Tom Davis still CEO the at that point, or had Bill "Boss Hogg" Howard taken over by then?

 

 
I am fairly certain it was still Tom Davis.  Not 100% sure, though.
-------------------------------------------------------------
After posting the above, I researched it.  Tom Davis was definitely at the helm when People Express began operations on April 30, 1981.
 
On May 6, 1981, Mr. Davis left the job of President in favor of then Executive VP Bill Howard.   Mr Davis remained Chairman and CEO.

 

[Hope777]

I think it was Bill Howard at that point.  Mr Davis retired in 83 I believe, I do remember signing over my uniform allowance check to the employee fund that purchased Mr Davis' MB at retirement.  

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think it was Bill Howard at that point.  Mr Davis retired in 83 I believe, I do remember signing over my uniform allowance check to the employee fund that purchased Mr Davis' MB at retirement.  

 
Do the research.  Tom Davis was running the airline in 1981 when People Express started its first route EWR-ORF.  (That's the point of the discussion, BTW.)

 

[Hope777]

Not sure when we began the fight with PE, late 82 early 83.   Thats when PI finally added non-stop EWR-CLT flights.  All flights prior went thru either ORF of RDU with a 2nd stop in CLT.  I do remember the 727-100's but the best was once we got the 200's.  Either 150 or 164 seats.  We would look into the plane once it got to the gate to see which side the galley was on.   Using Sticky Tab seats charts.....so much fun

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not sure when we began the fight with PE, late 82 early 83.   Thats when PI finally added non-stop EWR-CLT flights.  All flights prior went thru either ORF of RDU with a 2nd stop in CLT.  I do remember the 727-100's but the best was once we got the 200's.  Either 150 or 164 seats.  We would look into the plane once it got to the gate to see which side the galley was on.   Using Sticky Tab seats charts.....so much fun

 
I was in the 727 training department at Piedmont when we began going to SAN to pick up the 727-200s purchased from PSA for the sole purpose of responding to the People Express threat.  I was on the crew that took delivery of the first one.  It was 1981, NOT 1982 or 1983.
 
Do the research.  People Express began operations on April 30, 1981.  Not 1982 or 1983.
 
At what time People Express started CLT service is not germane to the topic of responding to low-cost threats.

 

[topDawg]

The old mentality would be for AA to increase frequency to hourly nonstops and match the upstart's fares, and attempt to drive them out of business. I don't think that's going to work against Spirit, but AA does have nearly $10 billion in cash, so it's not like AA would run out of money quickly if it tried some old-school competitive response.

meh its what, 1x daily? 
 
on a route that is just AA currently (IIRC?) add some of the new lowest class fares, maybe upgrade or a extra flight or two and leave it alone. AA via US owns the route anyways...... 

 

[texasreb]

I think that it's about go time to squash Spirit. Apparently they think that they can walk into any off AA's markets without any repercussions.

Said Braniff to Southwest.

 

[Worldport]

Said Braniff to Southwest.

Poor analogy........unless you work for Spirit