Southwest Van Driving Through Philly

[Colby]

And I Believe that You all have never had a MARKETING Class in your lifes. I am a little familiar with Business Management and Marketing...AND you don't waste money Marketing something that is Already MARKETED !!!! Granted WN is Coming to Philly... But does Prada Market in Field They already own when Walmart shows up ??? I don't think so. ......Because Prada has a Certain Class that they DO NOT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH!!!!!!!!

 

[Colby]

Quality will always show itself WELL

 

[autofixer]

And I Believe that You all have never had a MARKETING Class in your lifes. I am a little familiar with Business Management and Marketing...AND you don't waste money Marketing something that is Already MARKETED !!!! Granted WN is Coming to Philly... But does Prada Market in Field They already own when Walmart shows up ??? I don't think so. ......Because Prada has a Certain Class that they DO NOT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH!!!!!!!!

Colby, You are assuming that U passengers will stay with U. Why? When mom and paw Kettle decide to fly to point "A" this summer from PHL and they JUST say a SWA ad, whom will they call? U must tell all of those customers in PHL why they must fly U. No I don't have a marketing degree, however, I RUN a business and do REAL marketing on a daily basis. It is people with marketing degrees who have not been marketing UAIR for the 17 years that I have been associated with U. I think that the past holds the key to the future of PHL and UAIR if an aggressive marketing plan is not implemented. Look no further than: BWI, Florida, California, RDU, New York state (ala Jet Blue). :huh:

 

[mweiss]

And I Believe that You all have never had a MARKETING Class in your lifes. I am a little familiar with Business Management and Marketing

As am I. I've had marketing classes, and I have worked in marketing professionally. And have marketed directly to Fortune 100 CEOs. Yes, I do know a little bit about this topic.

AND you don't waste money Marketing something that is Already MARKETED !!!!

True, when you have a monopoly. When you are in a competitive market, you absolutely must market yourself.

But does Prada Market in Field They already own when Walmart shows up ??? I don't think so. ......Because Prada has a Certain Class that they DO NOT HAVE TO COMPETE WITH!!!!!!!!

Guess what? US customers would laugh in your face if you compared US to Prada. In their eyes, you're selling Walmart products at Prada prices. That doesn't make you Prada. That makes you a ripoff.

No, I'm not saying I think US is a ripoff. What I am saying is that many US customers do believe it is. Marketing tells the customer what to expect. Tell them with marketing to expect Prada, fine. But then you must deliver on it. If you don't, they won't forget it. And they won't believe the marketing in the future.

 

[wnfan37]

Okay so you're Honestly telling me that Driving Up and Down South Street is Gonna Be the "DEATH OF USAIRWAYS"..... Yeah All the Teeny Boopers that hang out on South Street and go out Clubbing are really gonna make a Huge Difference !!! Now, if someone were to tell me they were going around the Circle in front of the Art Museum or up and Down Market Street... OR How About 12th Street..... For those that Actually LIVE IN PHILLY Know what I mean !!!

Sounds like the Employees of WN just were looking at a Nice day to take the Van Out and go "CRUISING"....

Hell, to listen to ALMOST all of you on here lately I'd Have to wonder why you even care !!! According to MOST of you the "SHIP IS SINKING" Anyway !!!!

FYI from a corporate guy at WN... there will be daily (yes daily) barrages of trucks, and other marketing events at various spots in Philly for the ENTIRE month of March (Monday-Friday, that is).

You'll see "crusing" at lots of places... and we don't really mind if the teeny bopper is spending his/her allowance on a $29 one-way to PVD. Sure beats mom driving them, right?

 

[Colby]

Hopefully this will be the Last of this Subject that I will have to say....

The Post is Entitled "Southwest Van Driving Through Philly"...... So, a Van from South West was Driving Up and Down South Street !!!! Yeah that's Really HUGE Advertising !!! Drive to the Airport Lately.... US VANS ALL OVER The Airport.... Big Maintence Hangers with Huge US AIRWAYS LOGO ON SIDE OF BUILDING.... US AIRWAYS EXPRESS ON SIDE OF OTHER HANGERS !!!!! Yep, a Van is Gonna do it for WN !!!

As for the Customers Laughing at my Comparision..... So, Let them Laugh....

That's all I have to say on this subject.... Im not going to sit here and waste my time Argueing with everyone that is going to Run Scared of Freakin WN !!!!

 

[Dilligas]

I do not understand the arrogance and attitudes in this thread.

Southwest is a successful business entity and mocking them, ridiculing their marketing, or making snide remarks about some perceived "class" distinction is pointless. They are kicking butt and taking names, people. What is your airline doing that you are proud of?

You're really missing the picture here, and this elitism will not feed your family.

My hat's off to the folks at WN for being innovative, clever, and very strategic in their assessment of opportunity and the vulnerabilities of their competition.

 

[Dilligas]

<snip>
...That makes you a ripoff.

No, I'm not saying I think US is a ripoff. What I am saying is that many US customers do believe it is.

U may be a ripoff to its' customers, but at least they treat the employees really, really well and create a pleasant work environment.

Why don't you apply?






"Marketing? We don't neeeed no stinkin' marketing..." h34r:

 

[mweiss]

U may be a ripoff to its' customers, but at least they treat the employees really, really well and create a pleasant work environment.

Why don't you apply?

With that marketing, I just might!

 

[jimntx]

I do not understand the arrogance and attitudes in this thread.

Southwest is a successful business entity and mocking them, ridiculing their marketing, or making snide remarks about some perceived "class" distinction is pointless.

Can I have an AMEN from the choir! The "former major airlines" graveyard is littered with the corpses of airlines that did not take Southwest seriously. I still remember a friend of mine in Houston who worked for Braniff saying that they were not the least bit concerned about that new Southwest Airline (with the word Airline said with a large dollop of sarcasm). "After all, Braniff is a real, quality airline and Southwest is nothing but a Greyhound bus with wings. They are welcome to the riff-raff they will attract. We don't need that business."

Even more today, each and every airline needs every "butt in the seats" it can get. To make a statement that "Yeah All the Teeny Boopers that hang out on South Street and go out Clubbing are really gonna make a Huge Difference !!!" is just whistling in the dark.

SW knows that it starts with capturing that teeny-bopper or low-cost vacationer or stingy business traveler. The teeny-bopper's parents, and the neighbors of the vacationer and the competitors to the stingy business traveler will follow. For every Colby (or me) who wouldn't go to the grocery store, much less across country, in that crowded, cramped cabin, there are at least 10 people who will talk alll winter long about how much money they saved on their summer vacation by flying Southwest. "And it was SO MUCH FUN! You should have seen the rap song that the flight attendants did for the safety announcements!"

Whether Southwest appeals to me personally or not is not the issue. Southwest will survive nicely without my business. They go after the most passengers, and could care less whether they are wearing business suits or sweat suits. And, in this business climate, I know a lot of business travelers who are packing their business suits, wearing their sweat suits while traveling on Southwest, and changing at the airport when they get to their destination.

Five years ago, these same people wouldn't have been caught dead anywhere but in F/C on United, American, Delta, Continental, US Airways, or Northwest. I'm afraid that those of us of the "majors" are still chasing after that group of travelers that no longer exists--certainly not in the numbers that it existed pre-9/11. I non-revved from DFW to BHM recently. 12 of the 14 F/C seats were occupied by non-revving AA employees, families, and furloughees (me).

Southwest never had that market segment; so, they don't miss it when its gone.

 

[PI-RDU-SS]

Dear Marketing Experts.

Rule number 1 in marketing is "owning a piece of the consumers mind." This is from the great book on the marketing position of the mind.

1. USAirways is not Prada: USAirways has a low position in the consumers mind. It has poor management, it has employees with low morale, it is shrinking, it is known for price gouging in the NE for many years. It took the attitude of"it's us or the bus. It had an unfortunate safety record in mid 90's. It is percieved as a "cooly effeicent run airline according to the executive team at merger time. All this has been adding up to the flying publics mind for years. It is a money loser. A few ads can not change the position of the mind that US holds to the flying public in general. It must be done out at the airport and on the planes each time a customer gets on a US plane or speaks to anyone at US.

2. USAirways thinking it is Prada is what has gotten the company in the trouble it is in. Some in management do not see it or will not acknowledge it. USAirways can run all the great ads in the world but they are a waste of money when you go out to airport and see a plane like the B-737 with all the paint falling off. Waiting 1 hour for bags in PHL. You see the inside the beltline and Philly attitude come across. Great ads that make passengers expectations higher, only worsen the situation when company does not deliver on ads run. They just make the psg angry when the think they will get something of quality and value and get high price and low quality.Great ads and a poor business plan just help a company go out of business faster. So maybe US should not advertise after all.

3. S/W sets the expectations right and they over deliver on service. It is not inflight service like first class but it says it will get you there for a cheap fare, on time, employees are happy to work for company, planes are new and clean. They even have fun while doing this in ads and at the airport. S/W has the corporate culture of Herb Kelleher, a funny street wise competitor and everybody knows that is the image America loves. They tell you, we only serve peanuts and no assigned seating and that is what the public expects. With US they say they have F/C and then you get peanuts and something to drink in a plastic cup after you have to ask for it many times. The difference is the psr, expects more then that in their mind. They paid more but got same thing as S/W. What do you think they will do next time they fly and felt that US ripped them off. Thats right they will call SW like they have for so many years while the old arrogant run airlines dismissed them until now they own the best "positiion of the customers mind." USairways corporate culture is just like all the management teams that have tried to run this messed up airline. They are all arrogant Ivy League MBA's who seem to know it all except how to make money! They forget that all the $ signs and numbers are really the efforts of your loyal customers or your employees. If you try and go out and make money you can't because people know you are going to rip them off. If you go out to serve then you will make it.

S/W will beat US badly because they are a very smartly run airline with a consistant game plain. They have employees who look forward to gettiing up and going to work and serve the flying public. They work together and don't let mgt seperate and conquer.

How many US employees got up this AM and said I am so glad and proud to go to work for this well managed company. (I bet just the few that work on top floor of CCY.)


I believe it was when S/W first entered DTW that they did some great advertising and starting to get a position of the DTW consumers mind, when they rented a flat bed truck and had green beer party as they drove it around town in a St. Patricks Parade. Not much cost but they got publicity all over the US on the news that night. Herb Kelleher was leading the way on the back of flat bed handing out the green beer to people watching parade. (a flat bed truck, a model of a S/W plane and green beer gets national news and great marketing for them. They did it the morning of the parade. They just said we are going to do it and make it happen and they did. US would have had 15 reports to fill out and 25 VP's to sign off on it.

Also, the people everywhere S/W has gone has seen the fares drop almost the day they announce service. The flying public knows who really lowered the fares and it is not US when they have gouged for decades and lowered once S/W hit it's markets. Just look at S/W market vs. US. US is probably zero for twenty in markets it has gone up against the Walmart.

Walmart is I believe now the largest corp. in USA. It serves the masses. How many Americans go to Prada to shop? Not that many I bet.

USAirways management team can take their arrogant Harvard MBA, Prada shopping, latte drinking mentality and watch that greeter in blue vest from Walmart (S/W) beat you again. They did that when US did ad for Flyers game. ou sponsored a show that let S/W logo be shown all during the game I bet. Who is smarter? I know if I were S/W I would be thanking US of doing this. I bet the Harvard MBA did not know that during the comercial the viewer went to frig and got more cold pizza and beer and then returned to game just in time to miss US ad and see S/W logo for rest of game for two hours. It should show you the respect people have for winners and people who are easy to do business with. S/W walks right into town and takes the official sponsor of all sports teams and the home town airline is shut out.

I assume from your marketing skills Prada could ask for a premium price over their top competitor with dirty stores, low inventory, no staffing at counters or to help you when lines are long. Lose money and pay bonus to management with none existant business plan. Paint faling off the wall and in need of repair, but they can just put www.prada.com on it and all is well. They can take the attitude I had one day when still with US. I had Sales VP at airport and he saw the extra long line going out the door. He said this is great look at this. I though this bad as we had only 2 positions open at counter and one was a first class check in only. He would not help coach flyers. The VP said company did great job that day. I said no we have not. Look at all the people we are making mad. He said we have them ticketed in our line and where can they go. I said nowhere this time but next time you might see them over at DL/UA/AA or SW. Well guess what happened they all walked and today US might be 4th in market share at RDU after being # 1 for many years. US saved some money by offering little service and lost all those customers that still have that "position of the mind" from that experience. The ads running back then was "USAir begins with U." (what a joke of an ad campaign.)

I am not condemming the front line US employees for this image as it was one that is given to you by the lack of management and marketing in the past 2 decades. It is amaziing to me to see US does have some good stats that I feel are brought about by individual employees that take pride in work and do best they can for customer. (I am sure that doing this even gets them in trouble with company policy.)


It is like my dad told one SVP of USair said one day in the PI-INT Landing gear shop after the VP wanted about 300 non essential reports. Dad asked him if FAA required it, SVP said, no. My dad asked then why do it? The SVP said, do it because I need it for the productivity cost analysis ratio report. My dad asked him if the shop was behind schedule or ahead of schedule for production or costs. VP had to admit it was ahead in production and behind in cost. My dad said then why do it. VP got mad and said because I said so. My dad said he would love to accomidate his request but that he had to use all the usless reports to stress test the landing gears of the 737's. He said if they can handle that amount of weight they can take any type bad landing. The VP said I want the reports now. My dad asked why one more time, the vp lost it and said because I have a Harvard MBA and Eng. Degree from MIT and 20 years of formal education. My dad said I am sorry to hear that. The former US VP said what do you mean. He said some of us got it in 12 years others take 20 years and still don't get it. (This sums up what the mgt of US has had for the last 15 years.)

Also, I think you know now why Gordon Beauthune was so quick to praise Dave S. He knew he had someone who could not get job done. Just like when coaches take up for the losing coach in the league when he is about to get fired. They want him there so they can beat him. BBB came from COPA airlines in Latin America. What a great airline that is/was. Ever seen the some of the articles of Dave and others when they jumped from airline to airline taking inside information and having to work a deal out between the airlines. They also never stuck around to see final product, They put into place bad plans and bailed out before it was traced back to them. I still laugh at the article in Airline Business magezine about 1 1/2 years ago. It said in interview with Dave, what was greatest party of his job so far. Magizine said it was when he took his daughter throught the airports of USAirways and he looked down and told his daughter about all the jobs he was saving at the airline.

I am taking Walmart over Prada in my March Madness bracket.

I went and got an MBA from what I call a "Posion Ivy League School" and the most important thing I learned from it was throw 90% of it away. Those numbers are from customers and employees. I learned more about business from working the ramp and customer service. I will take a MBWA any time. "Mgt By Walking Around"
This is where mgt gets out of the head shed and listens to front line workers and customers and doesn't lecture to them. Take what you learn from them and make a plan, it will not fail 90% of time.

 

[mweiss]

PI-RDU-SS,

What a poignant (albeit lengthy) contribution! You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Couple of nit-picky things...

Walmart is I believe now the largest corp. in USA. It serves the masses. How many Americans go to Prada to shop? Not that many I bet.

Don't knock Prada. They have a target demographic, and hit it with laserlike precision, with very profitable results. US's problem is, as you alluded to several times, that the company behaves as if it believes it is Prada, while giving the customer a Wal-Mart experience. No customer is dumb enough to fall for that for long.

But you're absolutely right. US cannot simply market itself as a Prada while the processes remain broken. Gordon didn't start the CO marketing until the processes were fixed. Once they were, then they could start working on recapturing the market.

Also, don't knock the MBA. The formal education is extremely valuable, though not without the informal MBWA. I've had the MBWA (albeit not in the airline industry) for a while, and the formal MBA education is doing a fine job filling in the gaps. Neither is a sufficient substitute for the other. Or, put another way, the combination is worth much more than the sum of the parts. But I'm sure you know that, having been there yourself.

 

[More Facts and Less Emotion]

The formula for competing with Southwest is simple:

Competitive fares + great service + same or better costs(no waste can be tolerated) + effective marketing = Win Philadelphia

Any one of the components missing will result in failure.

 

[mga707]

Just for the 99.9% of us who don't live in or around Philly: What in the heck IS this "Prada"?
Never heard of it, and all it reminds me of is a defunct Soviet (alleged)newspaper...

 

[mweiss]

mga707,

Prada makes extremely expensive, haute couture fashion accessories. I'd bet they sell far more in NYC and San Francisco than in Philly.