Slot Transaction, E-190 Sale, Crew Base Closures, & Realignment Designed to Shop the Company for Sal

When is all of this gate jumping to occur? Didn't DL open a lounge in A east? That seems like a whole lot of moving around. Does anyone know the breakdown of what airline will be where in PHL?
 
nycbusdriver said:
Hmm.

The only bunch of yahoos with more of a regional mentality than Crystal City crowd of the 70s and 80s is the Tempe brain trust.
Click to expand...

Your exactly right,
But Crystal City (regional mentality or not) in the 70s and 80s KNEW THEIR CORE BUSINESS and what they had to do keep it. They dominated their markets and printed money doing it.
They didn't always make the right decisions - but at least those "dumb ole rustheads" knew that they might want to treat the people on the front lines (that ARE YOUR business) with a little dignity, respect, and compassion rather than a liability and a hindrance. Some other airline (with a three letter Identifier) subscribed to that philosophy as well....hint NOT AWA.

Tempe - then and now - can not say the same. :shock:
The ONLY money these guys ever printed went to fund their "inner circle" for ALL their "accomplishments":

padding flight time to artificially improve OTP (although smart - costly)
alienating lucrative business travelers
diluting yields while increasing load
inability to merge the airline after 4 years
shrinking to profitability (of course until the economy rebounds)
closing bases
outsourcing main line aircraft and jobs to regional carriers
reinventing the wheel...... SHARES - MX reorganization - how's all that working out so far and who paid for it?

If they were making the airline profitable for someone other than themselves - they MIGHT have a sliver of credibility.
But they aren't, and they don't.

Employees, Passengers, and Shareholders, all have front row seats for this train wreck - and TEMPE's response:

"What a great job we are doing",
"What a great operation we are running"
"What a great ROI you are going to receive long term"
"Where's my Diet Dr. Pepper?"

Why is no one willing to stand up and tell the emperor he is naked....and full of it?

While there are many posters on this site that would prefer that posts were more "optimistic" toward the company and didn't contain criticism for Tempe, I guess I would have to say that if I were in complete denial, or part of the AWA management team, I would probably feel the same way.

But I am not.

While we continue our race to the bottom, I am still waiting for the "masters of the universe" in Tempe to live up to their HYPE ...... hopefully sooner than later. :blink:
 
There seems to be much discussion on actions and re-actions to the numbers game. That is exactly where I have my problem with this company. It is the bean counters that think they know how to run a company. An airline is a huge beast with many moving parts. When all the parts are working correctly, things roll smoothly and evenly.

In the past, and I can say this from an original USAirways point of view, our airline marketed its flights from business hubs to business cities. IE: (IBM - ITH/ELM to PIT to RIC) direct flight, not a nonstop, but a flight from a companys business center to another. This is simple marketing. Finding out what your business customer needs and designing a platform to get it done.

We have lost a good portion of our business base because we forgot how to market our airline. We aren't Southwest, and we aren't Jetblue, and we aren't Air tran.... What we are is WELL... I don't know....

A leasure Airline... maybe...
but that doesn't really make you the money you need to survive... LONG TERM...

A discount carrier.... maybe...
but our fare structure, with us selling everything under the sun nixes that...

A business carrier... We should be...
Corporate accounts, Cargo, guaranteed travel...
Gee... that sounds plausable...

My point is this... DP needs to find the real nitch on what this company is and develop a plan to make it work... Listen to your employees every once in a while, and quit worrying about the nickel and dime stuff the bean counters seem to think make or break an airline.

Food for thought...

Just my opinion...

Oh, by the way...
That will be $3.00 for the leasure thought, $2.00 for the discount thought, $7.00 for the business thought, $25.00 for having to carry to many ideas on board, and lets not forget the PIT airport tax of $13.72...
You owe $50.72... Cash or Credit....
Opps...
your credit isn't very good...
 
The last two posts were great. In regards to the last post though......the cash or credit question should be. "OOPS sorry we only accept CREDIT/DEBIT. :lol:

Again, those two posts just sum it up and call them out. There IS no plan.
 
wings396 said:
AirTran will already have 2 of them, while SWA is leaving 5-6 gates behind in D. I don't think that the addition to E will yield more than 6 new gates. While I don't know the exact amount of gates in each terminal, the math doesn't give SWA any more gates, it just consolidates them into one common gate area. Remember that this construction for SWA was planned back when they figured that they would go "gangbusters" in PHL while US faded away. As we all know, that hasn't happened and SWA has stunted their growth plans in PHL as well. Only time will tell what their long term plans are in PHL. I also forgot to mention that NW will vacate 2 gates in E, and will go over to D when they combine operations with DL. So the end result may give SWA 1 more gate if they take all of them in E, and if my numbers are correct.
Click to expand...

WN will be vacating 4 gates in D.

The new E extension will add 3 new gates and relocate 4 existing gates. I am going to say WN will have all 7, plus the 4 old DL gates in E which gives you 11 and there are the two NW gates that I am not sure if they are affected by the construction. That gives WN anywhere between 11-13 gates in PHL, that is more than the 9 they currently use. Whether they use all of them is anyone's guess. If they don't there will likely be 4-8 vacant gates in PHL for anyone else to come in and use (VX, B6, AS)

Travelpro72 said:
When is all of this gate jumping to occur? Didn't DL open a lounge in A east? That seems like a whole lot of moving around. Does anyone know the breakdown of what airline will be where in PHL?
Click to expand...

DL/NW are supposed to move into D, a few dates have been tossed around but nothing has been confirmed. DL has a club in A-east, however the combined DL/NW cannot fit all of their operations out of A-east. You can talk about all the drama between US and DL with those A-east gates but its simple that the combined DL/NW cannot use a mere 3 gates out of A. They will move to 5 gates at D. The Paris flight will still arrive in A but will probably be towed to D and depart from there. I believe they are currently building a new club in D.
 
Glucose Intolerant said:
Your exactly right,
But Crystal City (regional mentality or not) in the 70s and 80s KNEW THEIR CORE BUSINESS and what they had to do keep it. They dominated their markets and printed money doing it.
They didn't always make the right decisions - but at least those "dumb ole rustheads" knew that they might want to treat the people on the front lines (that ARE YOUR business) with a little dignity, respect, and compassion rather than a liability and a hindrance. Some other airline (with a three letter Identifier) subscribed to that philosophy as well....hint NOT AWA.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ with you. During the 70's and 80's USAir had no competition in many of their short-haul east coast markets and as such, gouged the business traveler in the process...by charging exorbinant fares from PIT to places like AVP, BGM, ERI, and MDT. Furthermore, it is easy to have the "perception" that you were treated with dignity, respect, and compassion when the company was raking in money hand-over-fist with high fares and practically non-existent competition. In that environment, the company expanded by opening new markets, ordering additional aircraft, and hiring more people.

When the going gets rough however...by way of changing market dynamics which heretofore have resulted in continuous operating losses for USAir(ways), the company...any company for that matter...must make tough decisions in which the front-line employees will inevitably be at the affect of. There is a tendency for employees to react in a way in which they think the company is doing something "to them"...when the reality of it is that the company is merely taking measures to survive, let alone return to profitability.

In other words, comparing today's US Airways to "how it was" is a fundamentally flawed comparison because the market dynamics are completely different. The USAir model of no competition and rediculously high fares was not a business model that could be sustainable over the long term in a hyper-competitive, deregulated environment by a carrier with residual legacy carrier costs.

I am not a US Airways management apologist per se, but just sayin' what the reality of the situation actually is.

~J A M A K E 1
 
JAMAKE1 said:
I beg to differ with you. During the 70's and 80's USAir had no competition in many of their short-haul east coast markets and as such, gouged the business traveler in the process...by charging exorbinant fares from PIT to places like AVP, BGM, ERI, and MDT. Furthermore, it is easy to have the "perception" that you were treated with dignity, respect, and compassion when the company was raking in money hand-over-fist with high fares and practically non-existent competition. In that environment, the company expanded by opening new markets, ordering additional aircraft, and hiring more people.

When the going gets rough however...by way of changing market dynamics which heretofore have resulted in continuous operating losses for USAir(ways), the company...any company for that matter...must make tough decisions in which the front-line employees will inevitably be at the affect of. There is a tendency for employees to react in a way in which they think the company is doing something "to them"...when the reality of it is that the company is merely taking measures to survive, let alone return to profitability.

In other words, comparing today's US Airways to "how it was" is a fundamentally flawed comparison because the market dynamics are completely different. The USAir model of no competition and rediculously high fares was not a business model that could be sustainable over the long term in a hyper-competitive, deregulated environment by a carrier with residual legacy carrier costs.

I am not a US Airways management apologist per se, but just sayin' what the reality of the situation actually is.

~J A M A K E 1
Click to expand...
Thank you for your intelligent response. When you read this string, it sounds like no one gets a paycheck. And better yet, everyone is so brilliant, why aren't they running the airline. It's very easy to sit back and "Monday morning quarterback", but it's alot more involved than people realize. I'm greatful to still get the paycheck twice a month. And everyone thinks SW treats their employees so great....it's no different. I have friends there that are jumping ship because they feel just like many of our employees do. It's the times....read the papers and listen to the news!
 
flyus2 said:
Thank you for your intelligent response. When you read this string, it sounds like no one gets a paycheck. And better yet, everyone is so brilliant, why aren't they running the airline. It's very easy to sit back and "Monday morning quarterback", but it's alot more involved than people realize. I'm greatful to still get the paycheck twice a month. And everyone thinks SW treats their employees so great....it's no different. I have friends there that are jumping ship because they feel just like many of our employees do. It's the times....read the papers and listen to the news!
Click to expand...
Their paychecks are definitely different at WN
 
JAMAKE1 said:
I beg to differ with you. During the 70's and 80's USAir had no competition in many of their short-haul east coast markets and as such, gouged the business traveler in the process...by charging exorbinant fares from PIT to places like AVP, BGM, ERI, and MDT. Furthermore, it is easy to have the "perception" that you were treated with dignity, respect, and compassion when the company was raking in money hand-over-fist with high fares and practically non-existent competition. In that environment, the company expanded by opening new markets, ordering additional aircraft, and hiring more people.

When the going gets rough however...by way of changing market dynamics which heretofore have resulted in continuous operating losses for USAir(ways), the company...any company for that matter...must make tough decisions in which the front-line employees will inevitably be at the affect of. There is a tendency for employees to react in a way in which they think the company is doing something "to them"...when the reality of it is that the company is merely taking measures to survive, let alone return to profitability.

In other words, comparing today's US Airways to "how it was" is a fundamentally flawed comparison because the market dynamics are completely different. The USAir model of no competition and rediculously high fares was not a business model that could be sustainable over the long term in a hyper-competitive, deregulated environment by a carrier with residual legacy carrier costs.

I am not a US Airways management apologist per se, but just sayin' what the reality of the situation actually is.

~J A M A K E 1
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with you as well.

Making tough decisions in business is one thing

Making ignorant decisions at the expense of your employees is reckless.

These guys do what they want - then blame everyone but themselves when it doesn't work out.

You said: "The USAir model of no competition and rediculously high fares was not a business model that could be sustainable over the long term in a hyper-competitive, deregulated environment by a carrier with residual legacy carrier costs."

Well I am sorry - I might have been around during the "model of non-competition" but if you really think SWA and others (including US Airways today) "don't gouge" or maximize profits on markets they dominate, you would be kidding yourself and you would be wrong. Business 101 : maximize profitability on a route or a service that you dominate or can provide.
And regardless - we were making money and we were treated well. That doesn't cost a thing. Now I still get a paycheck - but a fraction of what it once was - much like my company.

It's no different than the gas station that's next to airport (and rental car return) you know the one that charges 40 cents more a gallon. (Unlike here - at least at the gas station you know about it it up front ) You don't have to fill up there - but you do because you were running late and because it's convenient your NOW going to pay for it.

Kinda like what AMR did under Crandall with yield management....you know the dark art that allows airline to price their tickets to actually make a profit. You want a non stop from LAX-DFW at 5 pm its going to be $600 O/W Want to go from LAX-TUL via DFW at 5 am ..... $250 R/T. I know this is a foreign concept because the boobs from Tempe all but did away with that in lieu of just "fillin up the plane". Even though we are flying around full we are still losing money. We continue to still have the highest load factor in the industry yet still have the lowest yield.

Why?

But if am correct and using your logic - it's OK that airline workers can have their retirement and pay decimated (as long as you get cheap airfare), my colleague's and I can can subsidize those $100 tickets for weekends in LAS so as to be "competitive" even though unprofitable. More like brain dead.

Businesses are in Business to make money. Free Market Capitalism.
I am not even going to go into the whole "privatize profits and socialize losses" mentality that has taken over ALL of business today, but fathom this:

The middle class jobs of the 1950s-1980s you know when an airline employee could earn a decent wage and retire and god forbid send their kids to college - the outrage!!!!! But these corporate criminals would have you believe that " the unions" are to blame for the economy tanking and the loss of jobs in America. I say "Bravo Sierra"!
Companies can still pay a fare wage and still make money.

Companies do have to protect themselves in economic downturns with layoffs and salary reductions to keep the doors open. Those are the tough decisions that management has to make sometimes. The reason the doors almost shut here to begin with wasn't because the employees were overpaid - it's because BAD decisions were made again and again and it seems our management was overcompensated for the service they had provided. Every time a management team left they left with millions and millions of dollars and then the employees were asked to pick up the tab by the incoming CEO because they said it's going to be "different this time but they just need 191 million". :angry:

Like I said before "I am still waiting".

So you keep believing that when market dynamics change it OK for a company to stop treating their employees with "dignity, respect, or compassion", you know like TEMPE treats the employees and our customers as long as they fill the seat and you get your cheap airfare. Besides those pesky passengers have come to expect way too much anyway. Wasn't that a Parkerism?

"Who cares about if I got Deep Vein Thrombosis on my flight to PHX - I got a $99 ticket".

It's the "Legacy Costs", the unions, and the employees that are to blame for all of this. Just look at SWA and CAL.

Convince yourself that a pilot that makes 17K a year with 200 hours experience is every bit a experienced as that greedy bastard with decades of experience making 70K a year. Gee we could could save 53K a year if we could devise a way to make them quit and hire some "cheap ones". Think of the bonuses we could hand out.

"What if we outsource our heavy maintenance to San Salvador so we can lay off all those overpaid mechanics. We can get it done cheaper at a sweat shop MRO in San Salvador that would probably give us a little $$kick back$$. That's what Franke would have done. Win Win for Team Tempe. What about those old Flight Attendants - we can make all there lives miserable. Their Union won't do anything and we can force them to fly till they drop and make reserve 20 years so they will quit. Now we can replace them young, dumb and cheap ones that we can control. So who cares if they didn't graduate High School much less college - they are Flight Attendants. Now if we can just get rid of those expensive computer systems - think of all the money we could save."
Slot transaction - let's see we get rid of 125 slots, our terminal, and get 42 in return in DCA (where we are already dominant) and route authority we will never fly - net loss 83 slots and a terminal. We are genius.

"We are the true captains of industry- Right"?
No just tidbits of things that have actually been posted on this board.

Well if you believe this malarkey - I only have one thing to ask you:

When can you start as Executive V.P. to the Director of the Assistant to the Manager of the Department of WASTE OF OXYGEN in Tempe?
We have a great benefits program - just ask our employees. :lol:

Like I said .....I respectfully disagree.
 
FlyUs said:
Can you back that up?? I'd love to see the numbers. The number of places US has packed up and run from is mind boggling. It's only a matter of time before WN enters the CLT market and.. you know what happens next.. LOL
Click to expand...


This is just a small example, but from DFW our PHX flights are very strong.
Many with connecting pax out of PHX. This to me seems positive seeing as DFW is an AA stronghold where pax could just go non-stop to most of the cities served out of PHX.
 
Lots of good points too, Glucose.
My whole problem with all these cuts, why aren't they shrinking the Corporate Headquarters?!! And the Sandcastle full of employees making 80 + a year!! :angry: :down:
I went to replace my luggage the other day, and met an Employee that was a incharge Of Corporate Vacation Travel?! I almost threw up my Diet Mt. Dew!! You got to be kidding!!?? Right? We have flight attendants on Welfare, and on the streets. And you are paying these 25 year old befoons for jobs like these??!! Start trimming the hot shot accountants, and you have money to GIVE THE FA'S A RAISE! :angry: :rolleyes:
 
WCT said:
Lots of good points too, Glucose.
My whole problem with all these cuts, why aren't they shrinking the Corporate Headquarters?!! And the Sandcastle full of employees making 80 + a year!! :angry: :down:
I went to replace my luggage the other day, and met an Employee that was a incharge Of Corporate Vacation Travel?! I almost threw up my Diet Mt. Dew!! You got to be kidding!!?? Right? We have flight attendants on Welfare, and on the streets. And you are paying these 25 year old goons to book Vacations for Corporate VP's, and Directors??!! Start trimming these hot shot accountants, and you can GIVE THE FA'S A RAISE! :angry: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Now you are getting it .....

It's a Sand Castle thing.
Hell there would even have been an East - West thing if it weren't for these guys. Who calls each side of a merging company by EAST and WEST?
We have more dead weight than we know what do with at CHQ- but we are still hiring more management.

"Hot Shot Accountants" - hell you mean TEMPS they couldn't even get the W2s right - Let's outsource them to San Salvador rather than our maintenance.
Wake up people.
 
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