ch53D
Senior
- Jan 21, 2007
- 260
- 3
It seems that a union and a association are the same thing.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=association
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/union
screw me once shame on me..........
- Thread starter furp
- Start date
It seems that a union and a association are the same thing.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=association
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/union
T
The Goose
Guest
That was the strike vote, taken before the start of negotiations. The TWU will hold a strike vote also as a matter of practice before its negotiations with AA begin. This is standard operating procedure for any union (and association evidently) entering negotiations and typically does pass overwhelmingly. If it doesn't, the representation has little leverage to bargain for its membership (with respect to the upcoming TWU/AA negotiations, precious little is left to bargain with as most everything of any value has already been given away for no consideration of any kind thanks to the "Working Together" sham).
The strike vote only gives the representing body the authority to call a strike if negotiations fail (impasse declared per RLA) and the parties are released to self-help.
My comment was in reference to voting on the NWA tentative agreement - amfa refused to present the TA with NWA to its membership for a ratification vote, up or down.
Other than the strike vote, the only voting allowed by amfa's "leadership" was whether or not to end the strike. No TA proposals ever made it to the membership.
ch53D
Senior
- Jan 21, 2007
- 260
- 3
When exactly did the TWU take a strike vote at AA? In my 18 plus years I’ve never seen one.
You’re wrong again. December 30, 2005 AMFA members rejected a T/A.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060106063058/...33_12-30-05.pdf
T
The Goose
Guest
Please see:
http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/06_News&...010-20-2005.pdf
It seems the company (NWA) "inserted" some language (thou shalt not harrass the scabs) and "prevented" a vote. These terms that "prevented" a vote on this TA is what was settled for in the agreement to end the strike.
amfa did a pretty good job of cleaning up their documents - had to hunt for this one.
I'm not above missing some of the news - it does appear they got to vote on something according to your document - I missed it evidently.
ch53D
Senior
- Jan 21, 2007
- 260
- 3
Sorry it didn't take the first time.
This document has no support to your previous posts. Negotiations went on for 444 days which a lot of things changed which keep votes from happening. You have been wrong with every post and my documentation shows it.
T
The Goose
Guest
You're welcome to believe in and support any organization you choose.
Bottom line - if any agreement is reached and not presented to the membership for a vote regardless of the reasoning, that organization turns into what you profess to hate, the TWU, for the same reasons. At that point, one is no better than the other.
ch53D
Senior
- Jan 21, 2007
- 260
- 3
So if the TWU agrees with AA on a T/A and the company adds to it before the vote, which wasn’t agree upon by the TWU it would be ok for the TWU to let the membership to vote on it?
T
The Goose
Guest
I'm rather surprised there wasn't more said about this at the time, but with Elaine (?) having been a board member of NWA, I'm not surprised. Friends in high places do wonders. After the agreement was made between the company and the association, there should have been no changes allowed in the T/A. The NMB should have stepped in at this point but again, friends in high places seem to have gotten any intervention overruled.
Barring that, add the language, educate the membership as to the consequences of the add-in, and have a vote. The membership is supposed to have the final say, correct?
Much like the APA, amfa is an association - there is a committee that decides what the membership is allowed to vote on.
I can't stomach the thought of another deciding for me what I can or cannot vote on. That is hardly a democratic principle and one of my main objections to the amfa way of doing business. If a contract is a POS, then I demand the right to say so with my vote, and not have another decide for me.
You've totally missed my point; that is, neither amfa or the TWU is free of problems, some of which border on corruption by both entities.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 892
- Banned
- #24
Don't confuse the poor twu wanna-believer Goosed with any type of facts CH, he might start snorting twu flavored cutting oil again.
It shouldn't be any problem for the worthless twu to get all the concessions back plus some extra, since they are "negotiating from a position of strength" now. :unsure: We have no worries since Burdchette is gonna reach into them thar management pockets and pull out a bunch of money fer us.
I am still waiting for the twu ILC that they promised they would get after AMFA at NWA got the AA AMT's the best contract in the industry (well almost), as short lived as it was.
With greedy mAAnagement grabbing the big money for themselves, it shouldn't be a problem for the twu this time to show us how its done. Maybe after the first twu strike vote Goosed claims takes place??? :blink:
ch53D
Senior
- Jan 21, 2007
- 260
- 3
It seems you’re the only one that has a problem with the negotiating committee and the powers of an elected National officer(s). I don’t remember it being a major issue on the NWA board at the time. But I can’t trust you with remembering when you could not remember time lines of event and factual issues with the strike in your past posts.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
Veteran
- Oct 9, 2003
- 1,401
- 2
All of your facts only confirm one representative organization is no better than the other. I'm quite well aware of the TWU's shenanigans re: their "international" level. So much has been given away there's little (no pun intended) left to bargain with. As for the TWU's international level, it's evident these people have worked hard to ensure they are accountable to nobody.
My complaint with the scam association, amfa, is it's beliefs that are based in the same social Darwinism that drives AMR's executives to tell us how much they deserve their bonuses (we're better than you, therefore ..."). Any group that is willing to divide it's membership in a manner similar to India's caste system is no good for any of its members.
amfa achieved its popularity for no other reason that being the ONLY group out there not hobbled by the AFL-CIO's "no-raid" policy at that time. You know that (it's akin to a guy getting married to whatever will have him - it probably won't work very well).
Otherwise, they offered nothing. No affiliations, no strength or peer respect, and had no problem with offending real unions and their respective memberships (then asking for help with their ill-advised strike against NWA). I found it quite comical that over 500 instances of the word "union" were deleted from the NWA contract book, then to see how many of their supporters referred to amfa as a union when it became obvious their strike wasn't going very well. This was and still is a group of amateurs hacks looking for the best deal.
This is where I have a major problem in the upcoming TWU elections. I (any many others) will not vote for former amfa supporters due to the devisive beliefs of same. Backpeddle all you wish. Most haven't forgotten.
As far as the SOS (same old ####) crowd seeking reelection or upgrading their positions, many won't vote for them either. My ballot will be returned with few selections - the field of candidates is sickening.
In short - the TWU is a mess due to self serving ambition and will, without a doubt, become worse regardless of which belief is installed to office.
It's alot like deciding between democrats and republicans - all that's at issue is deciding how one wishes to be screwed.
ps - burn injury? All that got burned was my (and others') ass in 2003.
I see we have another "YES" voter claiming they got "burned" in 2003.Don't tell me you voted no because then you would be a liar. :down: Please tell us Goose where is the AFL-CIO? Why didn't the AFL-CIO call a national strike of the airlines when all this bankruptcy B.S. started? When will any of the AFL-CIO "affiliated" unions strike an airline?
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
I must agree with you that the members were not allowed to vote on the TA's and for a very silly reason which ended up being signed into the agreement to end the strike any way. The clause written into the contract that kept it from going to vote strippend AMFA of any recourse against the Original Scabs and AMFA Scabs.
Are you high?
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Wretched Wrench
Veteran
- Apr 21, 2003
- 1,626
- 12
