Roddey Not Happen
- Thread starter AM49AAA
- Start date
In response to those who are saying that US Air has the upperhand in negotiations with the state, I wholeheartedly agree. There is no question they are in the controlling position.
The point that I made in my previous post is they owe it to the state to negotiate in good faith whether they choose to stay or leave.
The state is looking for a response of some sort and not to be put on a wire to flip-flop for the next couple of months. The state has stepped up to the plate it is certainly time for US Air management to come out of the dug-out and at least approach the plate.
When US Air was lobbying the reps from the state 24/7 in their succesful attempt to resurrect the company out of bankruptcy the state stepped up big time. They did not leave US Air twisting in the wind, the tables are turned now and its time for US Air to respond.
Business 101 and ethics 101 at Cambridge states this is the proper thing to do!!!
The point that I made in my previous post is they owe it to the state to negotiate in good faith whether they choose to stay or leave.
The state is looking for a response of some sort and not to be put on a wire to flip-flop for the next couple of months. The state has stepped up to the plate it is certainly time for US Air management to come out of the dug-out and at least approach the plate.
When US Air was lobbying the reps from the state 24/7 in their succesful attempt to resurrect the company out of bankruptcy the state stepped up big time. They did not leave US Air twisting in the wind, the tables are turned now and its time for US Air to respond.
Business 101 and ethics 101 at Cambridge states this is the proper thing to do!!!
As a 737 Captain, I offer my observation from the last two weeks of operating in and out of our 3 major hubs.
PIT is by far the fastest, least delay prone, and efficient airport setup from which I operate. PHL is a nightmare. Most times, I taxi out of PIT and takeoff almost immediately. I haven't been #30 or #40 in PIT since a blizzard 15 years ago. I have been #30 three times this year in PHL alone.
Consider the amortized costs of two jets engines idling awaiting takeoff. I suggest to you that the so called $9 to process a passenger through PIT is a pittance compared to paying to maintain those two huge blowers under the wings to move the plane forward 100 feet at a time every 10 minutes.
Even a 10 or 15 minute delay awaiting takeoff is enormously expensive.
This is also, notwitstanding, the issue of airborne vectoring. PHL underlays Washington centers airspace. Consider again, those two huge blowers, no longer at idle, but consuming Jet Fuel at an astronomical rate due to the low altitude. Trust me folks, it isn't cheap to run those things.
Only half of the story is being pitched.....either by design or by total ignorance of the facts.
My gut leans towards the later.
I recently had a senior management pilot in my cockpit jumpseat. I forward to you the essence of one of his observations.
USAir has a deeply entrenched management mindset, one that has been present for decades.
When the company decided to take delivery of upwards of 10 Airbus per month, management knew that this had never been done before, and that interdepartmental cooperation spell either disaster or success.
Steve Wolf called everyone together and more or less demanded that the walls come down....no more territorial battles.....success hinged largely on this fact alone.
In retrospect, the walls came down. No other airline in the world accepted (successfully) the number of aircraft in the short period of time that we did.
After the Airbus deliveries ceased howver, it was back to business as usual. Turf battles reignited. Stonewalling, finger pointing, and departmental protectionism again became the norm.
Litterally, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
I have many examples to prove my point, but let me close with regard to the PIT hub.
There is a bean counter somewhere staring at his data, lamenting the fact that $8 goes to service debt at PIT, and the remaining $1 goes to pay the janitor to clean the toilets. This same bean counter is not looking at the broader picture which includes jet fuel, engine costs, crew costs, delays......and the total package. He has not been tasked with the broader picture. Today's management structure would not allow him to do this even if he decided to do so.
Folks these are the true barriers to success at our company.
Management, if you are out there listening in cyberspace somehow...I bid you to ride with me on my next 3-day trip and prove me wrong.
Climbing off my soapbox......
Rudy
PIT is by far the fastest, least delay prone, and efficient airport setup from which I operate. PHL is a nightmare. Most times, I taxi out of PIT and takeoff almost immediately. I haven't been #30 or #40 in PIT since a blizzard 15 years ago. I have been #30 three times this year in PHL alone.
Consider the amortized costs of two jets engines idling awaiting takeoff. I suggest to you that the so called $9 to process a passenger through PIT is a pittance compared to paying to maintain those two huge blowers under the wings to move the plane forward 100 feet at a time every 10 minutes.
Even a 10 or 15 minute delay awaiting takeoff is enormously expensive.
This is also, notwitstanding, the issue of airborne vectoring. PHL underlays Washington centers airspace. Consider again, those two huge blowers, no longer at idle, but consuming Jet Fuel at an astronomical rate due to the low altitude. Trust me folks, it isn't cheap to run those things.
Only half of the story is being pitched.....either by design or by total ignorance of the facts.
My gut leans towards the later.
I recently had a senior management pilot in my cockpit jumpseat. I forward to you the essence of one of his observations.
USAir has a deeply entrenched management mindset, one that has been present for decades.
When the company decided to take delivery of upwards of 10 Airbus per month, management knew that this had never been done before, and that interdepartmental cooperation spell either disaster or success.
Steve Wolf called everyone together and more or less demanded that the walls come down....no more territorial battles.....success hinged largely on this fact alone.
In retrospect, the walls came down. No other airline in the world accepted (successfully) the number of aircraft in the short period of time that we did.
After the Airbus deliveries ceased howver, it was back to business as usual. Turf battles reignited. Stonewalling, finger pointing, and departmental protectionism again became the norm.
Litterally, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
I have many examples to prove my point, but let me close with regard to the PIT hub.
There is a bean counter somewhere staring at his data, lamenting the fact that $8 goes to service debt at PIT, and the remaining $1 goes to pay the janitor to clean the toilets. This same bean counter is not looking at the broader picture which includes jet fuel, engine costs, crew costs, delays......and the total package. He has not been tasked with the broader picture. Today's management structure would not allow him to do this even if he decided to do so.
Folks these are the true barriers to success at our company.
Management, if you are out there listening in cyberspace somehow...I bid you to ride with me on my next 3-day trip and prove me wrong.
Climbing off my soapbox......
Rudy
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Bob,
Again, the reason for the increase with $9 in PIT, is because U has taken out approx over 50% capacity. That translates to less flights out of PIT and LESS passengers, which now has driven the price way up as a consequence.
I am sure you know that, but according to your post, it implies how rediculous Pittsburgh Authority costs are. And the more flights U takes out, the worst that number will get.
Flights out of PIT went from approx 500 daily departures at one time to present day 104. And starting in Sept. will be approx 97.
Again, the reason for the increase with $9 in PIT, is because U has taken out approx over 50% capacity. That translates to less flights out of PIT and LESS passengers, which now has driven the price way up as a consequence.
I am sure you know that, but according to your post, it implies how rediculous Pittsburgh Authority costs are. And the more flights U takes out, the worst that number will get.
Flights out of PIT went from approx 500 daily departures at one time to present day 104. And starting in Sept. will be approx 97.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Shaka,
Bravo! My sentiments exactly.
Bob,
Dave's tactics, plot and scheming manuvers, have placed his employees on "death row". We've traded position with OUR company on financial ruin. Many families have a very difficult time paying for medical expenses that have been add on to their wage concessions. I know of employees who will NOT seek health care because they cfannot afford the out-of-pocket expenses with all the other concessions they endure AND DO COME TO WORK SICK. You may be thinking, "but this is what they agreed to". We could argue that all day long on how and why, but it is what it is. And therefore they are getting sicker and sicker, and perhaps to a point of terminal for not seeking medical treatement early. Who I believe is responsible is Dave and team...directly or indirectly.
On the flip side. Dave and team have positioned this company for them to become instant millionaires once the stock starts trading, and only in one year, and we haven't made a profit yet.
One is not better than the other in my opinion of your scenerio. They are both the same. Low down!
With regard to the politicians, we as Labor are very very well aware that it is an election year. AND WE WILL USE IT TO OUR ADVANTAGE.
Bravo! My sentiments exactly.
Bob,
Dave's tactics, plot and scheming manuvers, have placed his employees on "death row". We've traded position with OUR company on financial ruin. Many families have a very difficult time paying for medical expenses that have been add on to their wage concessions. I know of employees who will NOT seek health care because they cfannot afford the out-of-pocket expenses with all the other concessions they endure AND DO COME TO WORK SICK. You may be thinking, "but this is what they agreed to". We could argue that all day long on how and why, but it is what it is. And therefore they are getting sicker and sicker, and perhaps to a point of terminal for not seeking medical treatement early. Who I believe is responsible is Dave and team...directly or indirectly.
On the flip side. Dave and team have positioned this company for them to become instant millionaires once the stock starts trading, and only in one year, and we haven't made a profit yet.
One is not better than the other in my opinion of your scenerio. They are both the same. Low down!
With regard to the politicians, we as Labor are very very well aware that it is an election year. AND WE WILL USE IT TO OUR ADVANTAGE.
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
First off, I do not think that Allegheny County or the Unions are in any position to dictate to US how many mainline airplanes they will use where. If US were to committ to 150 mainline airplanes here in PIT, and PIT were to recover slower from the recession then other areas of the country, then we would be right back where we were before. Flying airplanes on routes that don't make economic sense just continues the revenue loss. AFA, ALPA, IAM, CWA or Allegheny county should have no say in where the assets of the company are deployed. Those decisions are, and should continued to be, driven by where the airplane makes money not used as a political chess piece or written obligation to an employee union.
The bottom line is the market place has changed and will continue to change. We have a choice. We can continue to look to the past for mistakes and finger pointing or we can plan for the future. Those that do not adapt to changing market conditions will become extinct. To have an outside source, such as a county government or a union, dictate where and how you will utilize your companies resources is not in the best interest of the company. That is why we have people in marketing, pricing, inventory, market planning, a/c planning, etc.
The one thing I will agree with is that the company should be showing more good faith efforts in dealing with the employees and the communities we serve. Shaka is absolutely right. Everytime the company called upon the political leaders of this state, the jumped to support US and it's employees. US should be just as responsive to PA when it comes to responding to their proposals.
PB, I disagree with you over the issue of the stadiums versus the airport. Which brings in more money to a region, Pro sports or an airline hub? Which is more important to a city/region, the 9,000-11,000 jobs associated with the airline hub or the limited jobs created in association with sport arenas? Yes this is the airport that we wanted. Yes this was going to be the crown jewel in the northeast for connections. Bottomline, it isn't making money. You can't continue to do things "like we used to" because everything has changed since we committed to the facility. You have to utilize your resources where they will make money.
The bottom line is the market place has changed and will continue to change. We have a choice. We can continue to look to the past for mistakes and finger pointing or we can plan for the future. Those that do not adapt to changing market conditions will become extinct. To have an outside source, such as a county government or a union, dictate where and how you will utilize your companies resources is not in the best interest of the company. That is why we have people in marketing, pricing, inventory, market planning, a/c planning, etc.
The one thing I will agree with is that the company should be showing more good faith efforts in dealing with the employees and the communities we serve. Shaka is absolutely right. Everytime the company called upon the political leaders of this state, the jumped to support US and it's employees. US should be just as responsive to PA when it comes to responding to their proposals.
PB, I disagree with you over the issue of the stadiums versus the airport. Which brings in more money to a region, Pro sports or an airline hub? Which is more important to a city/region, the 9,000-11,000 jobs associated with the airline hub or the limited jobs created in association with sport arenas? Yes this is the airport that we wanted. Yes this was going to be the crown jewel in the northeast for connections. Bottomline, it isn't making money. You can't continue to do things "like we used to" because everything has changed since we committed to the facility. You have to utilize your resources where they will make money.
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
Pitty
Calm down before you have a heart attack. I know you are angry, but please try to understand that everyone has an opinion and it unfair of you to somehow make everyone seem wrong because they do not agree with you.
I find it laughable that the city of Pittsburgh would NEED a threat to get them to get rid of that old rat trap of an airport and build a state of the art facility. The city should have build it because the old airport was third world at best. Don't blame US Airways because YOUR city sat on their asses and watched the rest of the country modernize while they had the worst airport.
Would you honestly give a damn about this issue if it were any other city or state? You come on here almost shaming people because they are not waving the PA flag. Let me make this clear. For all I care US Airways could pull out of the entire state of PA. And yes, they should NOT ask for a dime from YOUR state or YOUR tax dollars. This company is as crooked as any other and has the right, like you said, to go anywhere they desire or pull out anywhere they desire. So for that we agree.....but please stop trying to make this a central issue because you are only coming across in a very negative way.
I would like to know where you were when we pulled out of so many other cities? I'm sure you were concerned, but where was the anger? the passion? The PITBULL that defends PA like a mother bear? Sorry, Pitty, but I find that hypocritical. Yeah, Blah, blah, US Airways has thousands of jobs in PA. But you forget that PA is the last to get shafted by this company. The 25,000 jobs you proclaim lost from U were not from PA, sista. Try the rest of what was...but everytime someone brings it up, you and others dismiss it has old grudges. But now that it is your beloved PA, everyone should rally in Harrisburg? Keep dreaming.
I do applaud you for your hard work and dedication, but when you make the state of PA the central issue because it is where YOU are from, you slap in the face the concerns of the bases in CLT, DCA, BOS, and LGA...inparticularly LGA, where that beautiful facility is being waisted on rj's and the base doesn't rise above 22 lines in the largest city in the US. The Shuttle is going to hell. The LGA facility is falling apart. We have given all Florida flying to Song and Jetblue (even though they are at JFK), the pilots aren't trained for eow so the SJU flights and any other flts cant be flown out of the LGA base. We are told we are going to exploit the LGA market but with the same little airplanes you say will darken the skies of PA. Where are you PITTY? Do you have any concern about the state of New York and its rj darkened skies?you spoken to the LEC LGA President about HIS concerns? I know, you' re interest is in the PIT base, but it is called the MEC for a reason and all members should be concerned for ALL bases and cities served.
I am just fed up with the constant negative energy of this company and it ain't all from Sleezgle and his croonies. I am at the point in my life where I have had it. With the negative, hateful energy I sense everyday from this company and this forum, I just want to put my hands up and say no more. I think most of you just want to fight and #### and play victim. You can argue it to me until your blue in the face. I can only hope the angry parties involved with talking to the company have cooler heads when sitting down because if I were in their position and had the venom thrown at me I wouldn't even listen.
I keep hearing how PIT id the redheaded step sister. Please!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break!!! Take a number and stand in line. One word for ya, PA....VICTIM!! :angry:
:down:
Calm down before you have a heart attack. I know you are angry, but please try to understand that everyone has an opinion and it unfair of you to somehow make everyone seem wrong because they do not agree with you.
I find it laughable that the city of Pittsburgh would NEED a threat to get them to get rid of that old rat trap of an airport and build a state of the art facility. The city should have build it because the old airport was third world at best. Don't blame US Airways because YOUR city sat on their asses and watched the rest of the country modernize while they had the worst airport.
Would you honestly give a damn about this issue if it were any other city or state? You come on here almost shaming people because they are not waving the PA flag. Let me make this clear. For all I care US Airways could pull out of the entire state of PA. And yes, they should NOT ask for a dime from YOUR state or YOUR tax dollars. This company is as crooked as any other and has the right, like you said, to go anywhere they desire or pull out anywhere they desire. So for that we agree.....but please stop trying to make this a central issue because you are only coming across in a very negative way.
I would like to know where you were when we pulled out of so many other cities? I'm sure you were concerned, but where was the anger? the passion? The PITBULL that defends PA like a mother bear? Sorry, Pitty, but I find that hypocritical. Yeah, Blah, blah, US Airways has thousands of jobs in PA. But you forget that PA is the last to get shafted by this company. The 25,000 jobs you proclaim lost from U were not from PA, sista. Try the rest of what was...but everytime someone brings it up, you and others dismiss it has old grudges. But now that it is your beloved PA, everyone should rally in Harrisburg? Keep dreaming.
I do applaud you for your hard work and dedication, but when you make the state of PA the central issue because it is where YOU are from, you slap in the face the concerns of the bases in CLT, DCA, BOS, and LGA...inparticularly LGA, where that beautiful facility is being waisted on rj's and the base doesn't rise above 22 lines in the largest city in the US. The Shuttle is going to hell. The LGA facility is falling apart. We have given all Florida flying to Song and Jetblue (even though they are at JFK), the pilots aren't trained for eow so the SJU flights and any other flts cant be flown out of the LGA base. We are told we are going to exploit the LGA market but with the same little airplanes you say will darken the skies of PA. Where are you PITTY? Do you have any concern about the state of New York and its rj darkened skies?you spoken to the LEC LGA President about HIS concerns? I know, you' re interest is in the PIT base, but it is called the MEC for a reason and all members should be concerned for ALL bases and cities served.
I am just fed up with the constant negative energy of this company and it ain't all from Sleezgle and his croonies. I am at the point in my life where I have had it. With the negative, hateful energy I sense everyday from this company and this forum, I just want to put my hands up and say no more. I think most of you just want to fight and #### and play victim. You can argue it to me until your blue in the face. I can only hope the angry parties involved with talking to the company have cooler heads when sitting down because if I were in their position and had the venom thrown at me I wouldn't even listen.
I keep hearing how PIT id the redheaded step sister. Please!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break!!! Take a number and stand in line. One word for ya, PA....VICTIM!! :angry:
:down:firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
HiLavMan said:
Could you please provide proof to those suicides? Is this speculation? Is there a report of some sorts that can back that up? Or is this the same BS the former EAL and PAA employees threw around for sympathy?
h34r: I have studied enough about suicide to know that no central issues causes a person to commit suicide. The problems started waaaay back. US Airways at best can only be the straw that broke the camels back, but anything short of that is being overly dramatic.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Mark,
I understand your logic, and can agree partially with what you are saying.
My biggest concern with Pennsylvania is that they have historically shelled out tax payer dollars, and did not receive a better return on investment of our tax dollars. People are leaving Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh because there is not enough good paying jobs. Why is that?
I've said this ad nauseum that Pennsylvania can not keep going down this road of giving "bail outs" and not getting a bang for the buck. USAirways presence may stimulate the economy of Pittsburgh, but at what rate or increase? Think about this....
The local economy now doesn't have enough growth even with U's presence here. At least Pittsburgh remains at at "status quo" as the employees of U (2ond biggest employer) still pays livable wage jobs. So, we all can still pay our taxes and buy groceries, pay our utilities etc. However, this same employer has laid off many employees in this particular state, and the state has one of the highest unemployment rates. With that comes debt, and less state and local tax revenue to operate. PA is deeply in the RED. The PIT airport is another dilemma added on that makes matters more serious. What keeps the economy going in our state and specifically Pittsburgh is the hospitals, and that is because we have an aging population (second highest in the country with elderly).
PA has been asked to give monies to USAirways in order for them to decide to leave or stay. Great to have business here by U and I am sure that does create some business (not like it had). But, to shell out close to $800 million, and get in exchange a sh-- laod of small jets that pay poverty level wages, does not help Pittburgh coffers. In fact, that will put them on a downward spiral off the "status quo" with tax revenues.
There has to be more of a compromise and balance. I have a daughter who is finishing PEnn State. Bio Major and Minor in Industrial Psych. She tells me she is heading out of Pittsburgh and PA because there is not enough business here or good jobs. That is Par as a statement from the youth.
How will U stimulate our economic growth and expansion, differently then in the past with their continued presence. So far, it hasn't done diddly squat except keep the airport debt serviced. And that will soon change, either way. PA can not now be dragged in to build facilities for specifically U, when we don't know if they will stay down the road or decrease capacity even more with all these build -in for them. REmember, we did this before with U in the early 90s with the building of the new airport, and look where that got us......MORE IN DEBT AS A COMMUNITY. Thanks but no thanks.
Keep in mind Mark, U can stay or go, bring down more capacity and only occupy a few gates or bring in MAA or not. That is their choice. PA does have a "plan B". And you would be surprised who may come in to PIT. Even a few airlines occupy 10 or 12 gates each. It will fill capacity, and PA won't have to shell out anything but to negotiate new lease agreements.
Now I would love to see U stay in PIT. But I can transfer. Don't want to but could. On the flip, this deal has to be good for PA other than paying for 1 business to stay. There has to be a written commitement on both parts, or they both are wasting their time. With regard to Labor, as Pittsburgh residents, we get hit from both ends. MAA wages, and our local and state taxes going up to make the difference U refused to pay. Again, we switch places as employees of Pittsburgh with our company.
That's an amazing concept.
I understand your logic, and can agree partially with what you are saying.
My biggest concern with Pennsylvania is that they have historically shelled out tax payer dollars, and did not receive a better return on investment of our tax dollars. People are leaving Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh because there is not enough good paying jobs. Why is that?
I've said this ad nauseum that Pennsylvania can not keep going down this road of giving "bail outs" and not getting a bang for the buck. USAirways presence may stimulate the economy of Pittsburgh, but at what rate or increase? Think about this....
The local economy now doesn't have enough growth even with U's presence here. At least Pittsburgh remains at at "status quo" as the employees of U (2ond biggest employer) still pays livable wage jobs. So, we all can still pay our taxes and buy groceries, pay our utilities etc. However, this same employer has laid off many employees in this particular state, and the state has one of the highest unemployment rates. With that comes debt, and less state and local tax revenue to operate. PA is deeply in the RED. The PIT airport is another dilemma added on that makes matters more serious. What keeps the economy going in our state and specifically Pittsburgh is the hospitals, and that is because we have an aging population (second highest in the country with elderly).
PA has been asked to give monies to USAirways in order for them to decide to leave or stay. Great to have business here by U and I am sure that does create some business (not like it had). But, to shell out close to $800 million, and get in exchange a sh-- laod of small jets that pay poverty level wages, does not help Pittburgh coffers. In fact, that will put them on a downward spiral off the "status quo" with tax revenues.
There has to be more of a compromise and balance. I have a daughter who is finishing PEnn State. Bio Major and Minor in Industrial Psych. She tells me she is heading out of Pittsburgh and PA because there is not enough business here or good jobs. That is Par as a statement from the youth.
How will U stimulate our economic growth and expansion, differently then in the past with their continued presence. So far, it hasn't done diddly squat except keep the airport debt serviced. And that will soon change, either way. PA can not now be dragged in to build facilities for specifically U, when we don't know if they will stay down the road or decrease capacity even more with all these build -in for them. REmember, we did this before with U in the early 90s with the building of the new airport, and look where that got us......MORE IN DEBT AS A COMMUNITY. Thanks but no thanks.
Keep in mind Mark, U can stay or go, bring down more capacity and only occupy a few gates or bring in MAA or not. That is their choice. PA does have a "plan B". And you would be surprised who may come in to PIT. Even a few airlines occupy 10 or 12 gates each. It will fill capacity, and PA won't have to shell out anything but to negotiate new lease agreements.
Now I would love to see U stay in PIT. But I can transfer. Don't want to but could. On the flip, this deal has to be good for PA other than paying for 1 business to stay. There has to be a written commitement on both parts, or they both are wasting their time. With regard to Labor, as Pittsburgh residents, we get hit from both ends. MAA wages, and our local and state taxes going up to make the difference U refused to pay. Again, we switch places as employees of Pittsburgh with our company.
That's an amazing concept.
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
LavMan said:
I am saddened to ever here that someone has ended their life. I knew an agent who did so, but it was because of so much more than any problems with U. Thats the point I am making. Many times people are looking for people to blame when these things happen, but the answer is no single issue. The blackout up here helped me to see the emphasis we put on material items. Anyway, a person's life is indeed desperate when the decision to end it comes up...but please don't but the blame on US Airways...God knows I wouldn't want to give them that much power. Do you?
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
First,
Present issues with U is about this particular Hub of U which maintains 7,000 jobs. SEcond its about $800 million dollars of concessions from the STate who can ill afford it, only because they made some bad decisions in the past with bailing out others who had asked.
You may think I am slanted, but both hubs in PA represent half the jobs at U and most of U's franchise. I just happen to live in Pittsburgh, and am speaking like a tax payer more than an employee. I had hoped you could see that. I am not negative, ever. I take a hard line stance and am advocating jobs in America. I am no heroine, just taking a position I believe is the right one. You may not agree, and you have that right. You say Iam shameful. Funny, I don't feel that in any aspect. So, I beieve, with all due reespect, that is your problem, not mine.
I come on these boards to attempt to get support for labor's position. I spend my time and energy, and am relentless and sometime take a hard "left" position on purpose, in order to get the point across on its improtance to save and protect livable wage jobs in America not just USAirways.
I am sorry your perception of my position is one of negativity. I take more of a strong position of conviction and advocacy than negitivity. And that many times, is calling a spade a spade. And I have no reason to change or back off until the paradigm shifts.
With regard to LGA. Funny of all the times you've been on the boards this is the first I've heard you present. Why does it have to be about me. Why can't it be about you and your position on LGA. Has U cancelled their lease agreements? Has U asked the state of NY to give them $800 million to place more tax burden on NY tax payers? I can't take on the world. Wish I could and wish I had the energy. But if that's where you live, you should be advocating change. Have you? Or is it easier for you to "hack" me for being passionate about the state I happen to live in, and work? I would not be bringing PA up at all, if U was not demanding major gives from the state. Is that happening also to NY? I haven't heard?
I am not demanding U Maintain PIT as a HUB. They can do as they please as a business. I don't make those decisions. However, if U wants my tax dollar to convince them to stay, I have a problem.
Present issues with U is about this particular Hub of U which maintains 7,000 jobs. SEcond its about $800 million dollars of concessions from the STate who can ill afford it, only because they made some bad decisions in the past with bailing out others who had asked.
You may think I am slanted, but both hubs in PA represent half the jobs at U and most of U's franchise. I just happen to live in Pittsburgh, and am speaking like a tax payer more than an employee. I had hoped you could see that. I am not negative, ever. I take a hard line stance and am advocating jobs in America. I am no heroine, just taking a position I believe is the right one. You may not agree, and you have that right. You say Iam shameful. Funny, I don't feel that in any aspect. So, I beieve, with all due reespect, that is your problem, not mine.
I come on these boards to attempt to get support for labor's position. I spend my time and energy, and am relentless and sometime take a hard "left" position on purpose, in order to get the point across on its improtance to save and protect livable wage jobs in America not just USAirways.
I am sorry your perception of my position is one of negativity. I take more of a strong position of conviction and advocacy than negitivity. And that many times, is calling a spade a spade. And I have no reason to change or back off until the paradigm shifts.
With regard to LGA. Funny of all the times you've been on the boards this is the first I've heard you present. Why does it have to be about me. Why can't it be about you and your position on LGA. Has U cancelled their lease agreements? Has U asked the state of NY to give them $800 million to place more tax burden on NY tax payers? I can't take on the world. Wish I could and wish I had the energy. But if that's where you live, you should be advocating change. Have you? Or is it easier for you to "hack" me for being passionate about the state I happen to live in, and work? I would not be bringing PA up at all, if U was not demanding major gives from the state. Is that happening also to NY? I haven't heard?
I am not demanding U Maintain PIT as a HUB. They can do as they please as a business. I don't make those decisions. However, if U wants my tax dollar to convince them to stay, I have a problem.
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
PITY,
Thank you for your info. Listen, I am not trying to put you down, but I guess I am looking at you as a leader and not the common run in the mill member...not to dismiss that...and I see the airline as a whole as important in regards to leadership positions.
In regards to thinking you are shameful, I did not say that, but that people shouldn't be shamed. That is my opinion and God know we all have them...and not a problem to me.
Besides an occassional board watch, I am happy to not be as seriously involved. I admire your passion and hope the best in your endeavors.
Take care, Pitty B)
Thank you for your info. Listen, I am not trying to put you down, but I guess I am looking at you as a leader and not the common run in the mill member...not to dismiss that...and I see the airline as a whole as important in regards to leadership positions.
In regards to thinking you are shameful, I did not say that, but that people shouldn't be shamed. That is my opinion and God know we all have them...and not a problem to me.
Besides an occassional board watch, I am happy to not be as seriously involved. I admire your passion and hope the best in your endeavors.
Take care, Pitty B)
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
In Pitbull's style of showing approval or respect for another poster's reasoning, I think I love firstamendment.
You have some very good points. Of course there is nothing wrong with thinking that a company that has gone through bankruptcy and is run by a hard bargainer is less than 'ethical' or 'moral' but honestly, these are the rules of bankruptcy, which are part of the rules of capitalism in America. U isn't a particularly 'cutting-edge' practitioner of these 'rules.' U is more aggressive than they've been in the past, but they aren't off the charts of American capitalism in the post-Reagan era.
Sorry, but it's our culture, not just U management.
Feel free to think they're pigs, but (c'mon) they're just playing the game according to the rules, including sticking it to labor in PIT (maybe... I don't know)
However, I suspect that U's negotiating position at PIT is more sophisticated than stupidity. ON the other hand, have you seen the VACANCIES at CCY lately?!? Are these really vacancies or are they folks re-applying for jobs? If they are that short-handed, they might not have time to pay attention to PIT.
UAL's evolving east-coast, mid-atlantic connectivity challenges of late might be adding a wrinkle here that didn't exist when negotiations began.... That and PHL's continuing dis-function might have management doing some re-calculations. With all of that, U still wants to look as though PIT needs U more than U needs PIT.
From an airports perspective, it's very interesting. Also, note that both PHL and IAD have big capital projects coming. And U's current deal with PIT is for only 10 more years.
You have some very good points. Of course there is nothing wrong with thinking that a company that has gone through bankruptcy and is run by a hard bargainer is less than 'ethical' or 'moral' but honestly, these are the rules of bankruptcy, which are part of the rules of capitalism in America. U isn't a particularly 'cutting-edge' practitioner of these 'rules.' U is more aggressive than they've been in the past, but they aren't off the charts of American capitalism in the post-Reagan era.
Sorry, but it's our culture, not just U management.
Feel free to think they're pigs, but (c'mon) they're just playing the game according to the rules, including sticking it to labor in PIT (maybe... I don't know)
However, I suspect that U's negotiating position at PIT is more sophisticated than stupidity. ON the other hand, have you seen the VACANCIES at CCY lately?!? Are these really vacancies or are they folks re-applying for jobs? If they are that short-handed, they might not have time to pay attention to PIT.
UAL's evolving east-coast, mid-atlantic connectivity challenges of late might be adding a wrinkle here that didn't exist when negotiations began.... That and PHL's continuing dis-function might have management doing some re-calculations. With all of that, U still wants to look as though PIT needs U more than U needs PIT.
From an airports perspective, it's very interesting. Also, note that both PHL and IAD have big capital projects coming. And U's current deal with PIT is for only 10 more years.
