PIT vs CLE - sorry another PIT topic

[kao]

US had a chance to shine..a few months back in the local paper it was announced that if any airline in CLE could come up with a new unserved destination or new service-jet or express-they could be in the running for free advertising ect. I forget all the details but it was a chance US could have and should have taken....free advertising and oh yeah, reduced landing fees for something like a year....when asked why nothing was done was told never received the info packet on this....??? Then go ask for it!!!! We used to send planes out full westbound....they took the 90 percent full plane away in the PM to paint it 2 years ago...must be still painting it...took all the dca flights away even though flyi had just closed shop.....bring in a 737 after the busy summer and wonder why it is not full....shaking head......

 

[Travelpro72]

As I said before, "You folks can come up with numbers, percentages and figures, it is strictly PERSONAL and POLITICAL". The facts are there that MANY deny and counteract with PHL bs. It IS what it IS and we should all move on. God knows most of Pittsburgh and surrounding area has. Just look at US traffic. What WILL the folks of Pittsburgh do?

 

[songbirdstew]

PIT will not come back.

I agree w/ that as Seagal before and now Tempe have screwed it up ...here's an interesting article though...

Airport officials look across the ocean
By Thomas Olson
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, August 23, 2007


Allegheny County officials are talking to three international carriers, including Virgin America, about starting nonstop flights between Pittsburgh and Europe, said Pittsburgh International Airport's chief on Wednesday.
Kent George, executive director of the Allegheny County Airport Authority, said he and other county officials plan to pitch Pittsburgh to international airlines at an industry conference next month in Stockholm. It is hosting the 13th World Route Development Forum Sept. 23 to 25, in which airport officials worldwide compete to lure airlines to begin or expand service to their cities.

"This is a very difficult task," because it's not easy to demonstrate there's sufficient Pittsburgh demand to fill international flights year-round, George said. He declined to name the other two airlines to which he's talking.

Virgin America began operating Aug. 8, with San Francisco service to Los Angeles and New York. It plans to expand to Las Vegas and Washington, D.C., by early October.

Pittsburgh has been without nonstop service to Europe since November 2004, when US Airways ended nonstop flights to Frankfurt and London. But there's new impetus for restoring European service: The recently negotiated "open skies" treaty between Washington and the European Union will allow more flying across the Atlantic beginning in March.
The Pittsburgh market already has benefited from the domestic low-fare airlines that local officials have lured here since 2000, said a study released yesterday. In the past six years, Pittsburgh International's addition of discount carriers lowered average fares by 27 percent and brought jobs to the airport and tourism to the region.


Low-fare airlines such as Southwest, JetBlue and AirTran employ 429 people and contributed to the creation of another 189 jobs, according to the study by Wilbur Smith Associates, Cincinnati.

The study estimates that leisure travelers in the Pittsburgh area saved $64.4 million in air fare last year through discounter alternatives to major airlines. Local business travelers saved an estimated $109.8 million.

The study also found that low-fare carriers brought 110,600 visitors to Pittsburgh last year who spent about $43.3 million in this region.

"But we have to support those carriers," said George during a news conference. He noted that two discount carriers -- Vanguard and Independence Air -- entered then pulled out of Pittsburgh in recent years.

The airport authority hired Wilbur Smith Associates to analyze the economic impact of low-fare service here in June, one year since the arrival of JetBlue, the latest discounter to begin service. The authority has endeavored to lure discounters here since 2002, when US Airways filed for bankruptcy and began converting Pittsburgh from a hub operation with more than 500 daily flights to a base with 125.

US Airways' share of Pittsburgh flights has plunged to 51.5 percent from 86.8 percent in 2006, said the study. At the same time, discount carrier's share has jumped from 1.7 percent to 17.5 percent.

Separately, George said he has not formally accepted a similar position with the Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood (Florida) International Airport. George, who has headed the airport authority for nine years, said the Florida contract has not been finalized but that he expects to make a decision next week.



Thomas Olson can be reached at [email protected] or (412) 320-7854.
Back to headlines

 

[zethya]

Comparing the internal merits/statistics of CLE and PIT has little to do with why CO uses CLE as a Hub and US ignores PIT. The reason CO is growing CLE has essentially nothing to do with O&D. Simply, CO has made CLE work as a successful "CONNECTING" reliever to EWR - and that is what it is - nothing else. EWR is MORE delay prone than PHL. Strategically, US has not and likely does not wish to invest in PIT as a PHL reliever. If they did, they'd first have to learn how to run a seamless PHL operation and then determine how to construct and successfully run an operation with 3 East Coast hubs (PHL, CLT, PIT) - and still retain/grow overall existing profitability.

 

[Travelpro72]

Comparing the internal merits/statistics of CLE and PIT has little to do with why CO uses CLE as a Hub and US ignores PIT. The reason CO is growing CLE has essentially nothing to do with O&D. Simply, CO has made CLE work as a successful "CONNECTING" reliever to EWR - and that is what it is - nothing else. EWR is MORE delay prone than PHL. Strategically, US has not and likely does not wish to invest in PIT as a PHL reliever. If they did, they'd first have to learn how to run a seamless PHL operation and then determine how to construct and successfully run an operation with 3 East Coast hubs (PHL, CLT, PIT) - and still retain/grow overall existing profitability.

Hey they can't even get glassware on an F'n airplane or run an operation that can get you from point A to point B in the same day. They'll NEVER accomplish the above.

 

[Itestwell]

Aaaaah, I could read this for hours.......aren't there some old RJ's that we could throw into PIT to make them feel like someone cares? They don't have to fly, just park 'em on the A concourse and make the place look busy.... Maybe once in a while flip on the blinking red light on the roof so they can pretend to push back?

:mf_boff:

 

[BoeingBoy]

EWR is MORE delay prone than PHL.

The DOT disagrees, at least for the respective hub carriers.....

Jan 07 - CO/EWR = 63.0%, US@PHL = 71.0%
Feb 07 - CO/EWR = 60.8%, US@PHL = 56.7%
Mar 07 - CO/EWR = 57.9%, US@PHL = 47.6%
APR 07 - CO/EWR = 60.5%, US@PHL = 56.1%
May 07 - CO/EWR = 67.6%, US@PHL = 59.4%
Jun 07 - CO/EWR = 56.0%, US@PHL = 51.8%
Jul 07 - CO@EWR = 62.6%, US@PHL = 59.6%

Simply, CO has made CLE work as a successful "CONNECTING" reliever to EWR - and that is what it is - nothing else.

Which is precisely what many have said that PHL needs.....only to hear the "PHL at all costs" spin

Strategically, US has not and likely does not wish to invest in PIT as a PHL reliever.

Is the word "strategically" even in Tempe's dictionary??

If they did, they'd first have to learn how to run a seamless PHL operation

If they could figure out how to do that they wouldn't need a reliever for PHL, would they??

then determine how to construct and successfully run an operation....

So far the evidence is that they can't......

Jim

 

[Itestwell]

The DOT disagrees, at least for the respective hub carriers.....

Jan 07 - CO/EWR = 63.0%, US@PHL = 71.0%
Feb 07 - CO/EWR = 60.8%, US@PHL = 56.7%
Mar 07 - CO/EWR = 57.9%, US@PHL = 47.6%
APR 07 - CO/EWR = 60.5%, US@PHL = 56.1%
May 07 - CO/EWR = 67.6%, US@PHL = 59.4%
Jun 07 - CO/EWR = 56.0%, US@PHL = 51.8%
Jul 07 - CO@EWR = 62.6%, US@PHL = 59.6%

SHARES cutover hurt us... otherwise, we would have blown CO away in April with like 62%....

 

[tadjr]

SHARES cutover hurt us... otherwise, we would have blown CO away in April with like 62%....

5 months after cutover and PHL isnt even UP TO 62%! :blink:

 

[Itestwell]

5 months after cutover and PHL isnt even UP TO 62%! :blink:

What is PHL up to?

 

[tadjr]

What is PHL up to?

Thats something we'd all like to know. Bada bing.

 

[Travelpro72]

Who cares what the numbers are, PHL is the money maker and all employees,customers be damned. I say close BOS, LGA, DCA, PIT AND CLT and just run it ALL through PHL. Hell Tempe can fine a way. This company is a joke, the philly operation is a joke along with the numbers to PROVE it. PIT has failed for US and US alone. NO OTHER airline. Spin it however anyone may like. US has moved on pretty much from PIT and MOST of the city and surrounding area that isn't employed by US has moved on to other carriers. Again, the numbers PROVE that TOO.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Who cares what the numbers are, PHL is the money maker and all employees,customers be damned. I say close BOS, LGA, DCA, PIT AND CLT and just run it ALL through PHL. Hell Tempe can fine a way. This company is a joke, the philly operation is a joke along with the numbers to PROVE it. PIT has failed for US and US alone. NO OTHER airline. Spin it however anyone may like. US has moved on pretty much from PIT and MOST of the city and surrounding area that isn't employed by US has moved on to other carriers. Again, the numbers PROVE that TOO.

Again, Travepro72----Your post is dead-on---I talk to many people who don't even consider US anymore in PIT----many people, and these are people who fly very frequently on last min. business trips---

Oh I forgot---how did Kirby spin that---"We can't be all things to all people.".....That's why we alienated the FF------

And your absolutely right------no matter how they try and spin it----it is a joke-----


And Just to put another spin on this whole thing here: http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stori.../17/daily8.html

Of the low-cost carriers, America West Airlines ranked among the lowest in profit margin, with an operating loss margin of 2.6 percent. The airline, which merged with US Airways in September 2005, operates as a separate airline under the Federal Aviation Administration. It lost $25 million in the second quarter.

So Why don't we start the big pull down in the west since we supposedly according to Dougweiser just can't operate unprofitable flying---

Can all of you people who think you know so much about all of this please answer that for us!

So tell me why is Dougweiser talking out of both sides of his mouth?

I mean if PIT can't fly because it's supposedly unprofitable--Then how do you explain allowing the entire west coast operation to continue to drag down the company---


I will be anxiously waiting for all of these brain surgeons here to explain this one------

 

[Travelpro72]

The way I see it is this management team hasn't been able to reverse any of the damages left by the old team with Allegheny County. When you seriously THINK about it have they improved on ANYTHING at Usairways? I think you'll hear crickets waiting for a yes. Oh you'll get the occasional few that say we're making money now so something must have improved. Yeah, money is being made off the backs of employees and a goldmine of a NE route system that everyone else seemed to want when we were dying on the vine. Some folks will have snide remarks about the PIT-PHL ordeal but it all comes down to the fact that it doesn't work because Usamericawestways doesn't WANT it to work. Are some of you REALLY that snowballed by this management? I have said it before that hardly ANYONE can be in agreement with a decision this team makes yet they will defend this carryout decision regarding PIT to their death. They lie about every other number out there, what makes you believe the numbers they throw around about PIT? I mean really.. THAT is where it gets personal for some folks. Like I said before, take out the pirogies, the mullets, the steeler fans, the smaller O&D and folks still living with their parents and whatever else people poke fun at (most true) and see that this IS in fact a political game along with a company run by inept management. They wouldn't even know where to begin if they wanted to follow Continentals idea of using CLE as a reliever to EWR. US MUST find a reliever for PHL in order to FIX the operation. PHL regardless of how you rework it and try to fix it without maybe a miracle from above will require funneling traffic to a degree somewhere else (PIT).

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The reliever for PHL is CLT.