PIT sues

[oldiebutgoody]

The bottom line is that airlines CANNOT SHRINK TO PROFITABILITY. PERIOD. How much business has reducing the last bank of flights from the hubs cost us? No commuter airline has ever survived without some kind of affiliation to a mainline carrier. U will NEVER compete with the likes of Delta, SW and Airtran flying 737s and 757s with RJs, no matter how new they are. U has already shrunken to a point of not being able to generate enough revenue to cover costs (even with the HUGE givebacks by labor); if another shrinkage is announced, ALL employees had better look at other alternatives and get on with their lives somewhere else. US Airways is DONE! I don''t know why anyone believes anything this management has said in the past, they''ve proven themselves to be liars and very dishonest in most, if not all, of their dealings. They had months to work many of these issues out, but rather waited until the evening before exiting chapter 11 to "dump" these requests on the judge. If legislators, as well as prosecutors, don''t look at this as a total misuse of bankruptcy laws I will be VERY surprised. I look to see these laws "tightened up" to prevent such abuses in the future.

 

[skyflyr69]

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On 4/26/2003 12:37:58 PM Phoenix wrote:

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On 4/26/2003 1123 AM dfw79 wrote:


Eh...shut the hub down and see how well they like it then. 🙂

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Yeah, shut it down.  That will show them.  They should be happy they don''t have some low ser vice airline like Southwest flying in there.

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its a LOWFARE airline not low service. the mature airlines could learn a thing or 2 about service from Southwest.

 

[DCAflyer]

The article does not say A-County is suing US Airways. The county filed a proof of claim in the bankruptcy court. No other court has jurisdiction over this matter and any such attempt by the County to file a lawsuit in another court would undoubtedly be met by US Airways with a demurrer, which seeks a legal determination that a lawsuit is fatally flawed. Hence, it would be thrown out of court.

But in any event, A-County is not suing US Airways. The County submitted a filing in bankruptcy court saying that they have a claim against US Airways, and the county will be treated as any other creditor of the airline, ending ending up with newly-issued U stock... worth about one and a half cents on the dollar.

 

[Pacemaker]

How will JCMD go below 279 aircraft? We have "an agreement"? So what? When has this guy honored diddly squat? He has lied, misrepresented, misled, and deceived every step of the way. He will do it the same way next time, by announcing that we are in a crisis and our survival is at stake, and either we go down to x number of planes and accept the accompanying concession package, or we are going to liquidate. And btw, this is not "shrinking to profitability". For every mainline aircraft he parks, he's going to add half a dozen SJ's. He's going to maintain the schedule and the route-structure and he's going to continue to furlough mainline employees every step of the way, and none of these "contracts" are worth the paper they are written on.

Have you guys been asleep the past year?

He doesn't know any other way. Expect the worst, Dave won't disappoint.

 

[PITbull]

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On 4/26/2003 7:30:11 PM Pacemaker wrote:

How will JCMD go below 279 aircraft? We have "an agreement"? So what? When has this guy honored diddly squat? He has lied, misrepresented, misled, and deceived every step of the way. He will do it the same way next time, by announcing that we are in a crisis and our survival is at stake, and either we go down to x number of planes and accept the accompanying concession package, or we are going to liquidate. And btw, this is not "shrinking to profitability". For every mainline aircraft he parks, he's going to add half a dozen SJ's. He's going to maintain the schedule and the route-structure and he's going to continue to furlough mainline employees every step of the way, and none of these "contracts" are worth the paper they are written on.

Have you guys been asleep the past year?

He doesn't know any other way. Expect the worst, Dave won't disappoint.

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Pacemaker,

I am of the hope that your statements will prove wrong...but being in these negotiations with this mangement this past summer, and bearing witness to the fact that this company has a huge disregard for their employees as well as contactual language, even language that they wrote and can't seem to fit into their plan. I have the "gut, sick" feeling, you just maybe right with regard to our mainline employees. If we're going down, it won't be without the fight of our working lives. I will take their management reputations with me and make sure the business world knows their MO.

 

[Dea Certe]

For some really interesting reading on Corporate Greed, take at look at the American Airlines board. A poster called "TWAnr" (I think) took the time and trouble to post links to many comments and editorials on the airlines. Some are actually by respectable sources and not your usual airline bashers. I believe the thread is titled "Editorials and Commentaries".

It's worth a read if your blood pressure meds are holding. It's starting to look like the rabble is getting louder.

Dea

 

[nycbusdriver]

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On 4/26/2003 12:37:58 PM Phoenix wrote:

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On 4/26/2003 1123 AM dfw79 wrote:


Eh...shut the hub down and see how well they like it then. 🙂

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Yeah, shut it down. That will show them. They should be happy they don''t have some low ser vice airline like Southwest flying in there.

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PIT would love nothing more than to get SWA or other discounters to come in and take up the slack if USAirways shuts its hub.

Two problems with that clever plan:

1. None of the discounters will EVER replace the city choices that USAirways now offers, even if they could be convinced to serve the airport. The discounters pick only the "cream" cities to serve.

2. None of the discounters would EVER agree to lease rates that would net PIT the $6-7 per pax that USAirways is now paying. It just won''t happen.

So, the clever plan will be virtually useless in maintaining revenue or service at PIT.

 

[CLIPPEDWINGS]

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On 4/26/2003 539 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

......No commuter airline has ever survived without some kind of affiliation to a mainline carrier.




Oldie....I agree with the above statement. I also believe that is where the alliance with United comes into play. Remember, Siegel (Saddam) came from Continental EXPRESS...that is what he knows. I believe his plan MIGHT be to turn US into a feeder for United.

However, NONE of us at US knows what the big picture is. PIT/no PIT... Pittsburgh has a lot to lose if US pulls out. Allegheny County is as much to blame as US. Who else wants to come to Pit? Probably no one.

Truth be known... the greater Pittsburgh area DOES have much much more originating traffic, but it goes to other places like Cleveland. It is cheaper to fly out of smaller airports in the tri-state area. If A. county authority reduces costs for US then maybe ticket prices will be more in line AND people WILL fly out of PIT.

I don''t have the answers and don''t pretend too..but this is at least something more positive to read for a change.


THIS TOO SHALL PASS. THERE REALLY IS LIFE BEYOND THE US AIRWAYS SYSTEM.

 

[dfw79]

The name calling is childesh...but some people live in the past. That''s all I''ll say about that.

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On 4/29/2003 1001 AM CLIPPEDWINGS wrote:

Truth be known... the greater Pittsburgh area DOES have much much more originating traffic, but it goes to other places like Cleveland. It is cheaper to fly out of smaller airports in the tri-state area. If A. county authority reduces costs for US then maybe ticket prices will be more in line AND people WILL fly out of PIT.

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The only problem they aren''t flying on CO out of CLE, so they are in the situation as PIT. They could be going to CAK as well, but the locals there already said most of their traffic is orginating in the Akron/Canton and Youngstown areas. Yes O&D gets beat down by high fares...but when the O&D doesn''t rise that much after US Airways, what is the excuse then? Oh ya...not enough nonstop destination choices. It is a never ending cycle of excuses in this industry.

 

[N628AU]

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On 4/29/2003 1001 AM CLIPPEDWINGS wrote:

Remember, Siegel (Saddam) came from Continental EXPRESS...
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Good lord, are you comparing Siegel to Saddam Hussein? The man who gassed and raped and murdered tens of thousands of innocent people. You may not like what Siegel has been forced to do, or how he did it, but that seems out of line to me.​

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[AOG-N-IT]

Folks, The bottom line is always, yet sadly about money.

U now is not the U of the 80''s or 90''s when the PIT Bond Money was negotiated. Hince the need for the last minute moves that Dave has used to his/U''s benefit.

The costs of PIT''s operations are way out of perportion when compared to other focus cities. Changes have to be made period, regardless of whether the plan is to scuttle mainline operations in PIT?..or to make it the Mecca of RJ''s?

The powerbase of leadership of the U of old is gone. Siegel and crew does not have a single regional tie allah Colodny or Schofield

PIT is going to see some of what the folks in CLT and SAN got a bunch of after the mergers. This is about cost..but it''s also a touch of everything going full circle in life too.

I''m from CLT..and I work in PIT now , I have no desire to see anyone suffer beyond what has taken place to date everywhere within our system.

I do think some need to temper thier regional tantrums and think in terms of what''s good for the chances of long term survival of this airline. The few are never greater than the many when it comes to survival.

Many have had to relocate because of thier jobs..I''ve had too myself!! So before you fly off the handle about having to adjust your life any further...First ask yourself

(1) Is my job worth it?

(2) Is the impact of change worth it to my family?

(3) Am I prepared to live with my choices and move forward?

Should the answer to any of the above be NO ? It''s time to find another career field. Change in some form is going to continue with or without you. This much you can bank on.

 

[NAPAUS]

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On 4/26/2003 207 PM PITbull wrote:



Article: The authority contends US Airways agreed when it signed the operating agreement to pay its proportional share of expenses at the airport.



Folks on this board don''t remember that much of the debt that Allegheny airport is straddled with was created  mostly and mainly by USAirways way back in early 90s. They insisted and demanded even way back then  that Allegheny County build a NEW airport NOT refurbish the old one. In exchange U demanded majority of the gates for an infusion of $500 Million to help with the cost of building this airport. They had also threatened to leave back then if this wasn''t accomplished. Don''t forget U was the #1 employer of Pittsburgh and over 11,000 jobs in the region. The county did what any county would do and comply. NOW THIS NEW MANGEMENT WANTS TO PLAY HARD BALL WITH THE COUNTY AND EXTORT ANOTHER $155 million to fund their new business plan ON TOP OF CONCESSIONS TO BE GIVEN FOR THE DEBT RELIEF AND GATES. They also have the B--ls to ask for $255 Million for their renovations for U for PHL.

We still  have 9,000 jobs in PIT, and those jobs are in jeopardy if U leaves. That''s alot of pressure for a County. If all business negotiations in this country operated the same as U mangement, we would be a nation of liars, theives, extortionists, and black mailers  preying on the hard working taxpayers of this country. Thank god that many corporations don''t dishonor "good faith" agreements, and run in to BK to screw anyone who did business with  that company in good faith.
Keep in mind, that this mangement got all of PA on board to help them receive the ATSB loan and lobby to keep U in business. They also told allegheny County officials that they would NOT terminate the leases...again lies.

SO, I SAY AS A RESIDENT OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY AND AS  A TAX PAYER OF ALLEGHENY COUNTY, AND AS AN EMPLOYEE OF U.... If  U doesn''t negotiate in "good faith", THEN THE LAW SUIT STANDS!!!!! And if I were the governor, I would sue for MUCH more damages than that
for straddling the residents of Allegheny County with USAirways debts AND WALKING AWAY FROM THEIR PROMISE BACK IN 1992 as well as a few months ago.

I guess some on these board would think that the community should just "suck it up" and be silent just like the employees of  U.... well not this resident or this employee.



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If you remember that promise was made after long hard negotiations with Allegheny County...Ed Colodny should have made good on his threat and moved the hub lock, stock and barrel to INDY....Remember..i sure do...Moon Township and the PIT mentality is finally geting what it deserves..too bad the employees in PIT will suffer... Take the airplanes and move to a new hub city that will welcome US with open arms.. PITTSBURHG finally nalied their own coffin..SHUT!!! R.I.P. PIT!!!