Pilots approve American Airlines contract on second try

FWAAA said:
.... This TA is slightly different but its cost savings are not materially different from the LBFO.
Click to expand...

I don't remember hearing that the previous TA was a 17% cut. If it was shown to be a 17% cut...I agree with you...not much changed with this one. I just don't see how allowing for a few more hours of flying, allowing regionals to fly more 70 seaters....although I'm not sure they're allowed any more RJs in total. Codeshareing on Alaska & Hawaiian, which we already do. I'm just curious how they got to their 17%.

Mind you...I'm not cutting down the pilots at all, actually I'm happy for them...I'm just curious how management will sell this to the rest of the "17 Percenters"
 
AirwAr said:
I don't remember hearing that the previous TA was a 17% cut. If it was shown to be a 17% cut...I agree with you...not much changed with this one. I just don't see how allowing for a few more hours of flying, allowing regionals to fly more 70 seaters....although I'm not sure they're allowed any more RJs in total. Codeshareing on Alaska & Hawaiian, which we already do. I'm just curious how they got to their 17%.

Mind you...I'm not cutting down the pilots at all, actually I'm happy for them...I'm just curious how management will sell this to the rest of the "17 Percenters"
Click to expand...

DOH...never mind...I see what you mean. The other "17 Percenters" had already agreed that the first TA was a 17% cut. I guess that was a great sell by the execs.
 
FWAAA said:
I agree that AA shouldn't add lots and lots of small planes, but AA's plans are to replace many of the even smaller 37, 44 and 50 seaters with the expected 76 seaters. Just like UA, DL and US already have. And DL just announced an order for up to 70 new 76 seaters that will replace at least that many of its Canadian Torture Tubes (50 seat CRJ200)s. That's part of the deal DL struck with its pilots whereby it is permitted to buy more 76 seaters in exchange for adding the WN 717s (many of which will eventually replace the remaining DC-9s and perhaps some 76 seaters where those are just too small for the market).

UA, DL and US all have more than 100 (and in one case, I think more than 200) 2-class 76 seaters already in operation. This is about AA catching up to its competitors. Once again, AA isn't plowing any new ground here. DL managed to hoodwink Parker into giving it most of its LGA slots and DL has been busy adding lots of nonstop 2-class 76 seaters to places like IND where in the old days, you had to connect somewhere to get to NYC. Now, DL has six convenient 2-class flights a day. AA isn't going to fly 110-120 seat mainline planes between IND and NYC. Just ain't gonna happen. But perhaps some 76 seaters to compete.

DL had about a nine year lead on AA in the 50 seat RJ race more than 20 years ago, and DL's regional subs acquired the largest 50 seat fleet in the world. By time AA caught up with its huge fleet of tiny planes, they were already uneconomical and since then, fuel prices have made things even worse. This time, at least, DL, UA and US don't have quite as long a lead on AA. As I pointed out above, Murphy's Law will probably cause the same situation just as AA gets its 250th 76 seater into service. Is that suspicion enough reason to not acquire competitive planes (just because they might be uneconomical a few years from now)? I don't know the answer.
Click to expand...
to be clear, if UA's TA w/ its pilots is approved, they will have the right to add more large RJs but they have had a 70 seat cap like AA and still has a boatload of 50 seaters since CO's scope clause prohibited 70-76 seat JETS although the Dash 8s helped.

AA will certainly use some large RJs in NYC but they already have a number of their 70 seaters in 2 class there now...(not sure of the exact percentage) ... AA still has a size limitation via slots than even the number of large RJs doesn't change.
And of course AA needs to use the large RJs in its hub operations, in part to reduce the number of 50 seaters... and based on the revised agreement w/ Embraer, there will still be alot of them around for the near term.

of course, part of the challenge is that AA still has to announce an order for an order - or two - of large RJs. With AA, UA, and US all likely placing orders, it will take years before AA's fleet composition changes - which gives even more time for your theory to take effect. :)

And of course if an AA-US merger actually happens, then whatever gains AA makes will be shared with US, in part to support a larger DFW at the expense of PHX and in part because AA and US will tax the ability of suppliers to build large RJs fast enough to allow US to get in on the action as well.
 
AirwAr said:
Alright...so what was the actual percentage cut to the pilots in this deal?

Doesn't seem like it's anywhere near the 17% cut all other groups gave. Pay raise, $100,000 bonus each(13.5% on exit), no layoffs.
Click to expand...

Just wondering because I don't know, for you job, what does your equal make at SWA, DAL, UPS, UAL, Spirit and JetBlue with equal length of service. Rough guesses ok.
 
Mach85ER said:
Just wondering because I don't know, for you job, what does your equal make at SWA, DAL, UPS, UAL, Spirit and JetBlue with equal length of service. Rough guesses ok.
Click to expand...

SWA, UPS, & Fed Ex AMTs make about $15.00 to $20.00 per hour more than AA AMTs when topped out. They also enjoy twice as many holidays at a higher pay rate. They accrue more sick time at a faster rate, and get paid for a full day on every occurrence. The rest of them make anywhere from about $4.00 more per hour to around $7.00 per hour more than AA AMT's. Again with twice the benefits that AA AMTs are saddled with. Thanks TWU!
 
V.

I understand your problem (I think).

I have no idea why you guys are locked into a group representing other unrelated jobs. I also know the problem with a large number of your guys living in a very cheap cost of living area. On the pilot end, we've always dealt with guys in DFW who think a certain pay rate is plenty, and can't figure out why SFO/LAX/LGA/MIA can't live the same lifestyle.

In a general sens, I realize the mechanics are below the industry average. Other groups aren't that far below the average.

IMHO, throwing the BS 17%-20% "equal cut" mantra screwed certain groups more than others. The pilot group for one.
 
Did the calculation on the 17% for APA include something to account for the non-qualified portion of the pilot pension values?...
 
AirwAr said:
Alright...so what was the actual percentage cut to the pilots in this deal?

Doesn't seem like it's anywhere near the 17% cut all other groups gave. Pay raise, $100,000 bonus each(13.5% on exit), no layoffs.
Click to expand...

The TWU could have done what the pilots did and ended up with a better contract too, but the wonderfull TWU decided to "AGREE TO" concessions instead.
 
Bob Owens said:
They are going to freeze our A plan instead of terminating it! Oh yea, we dont have an A-plan. Didnt we give up the lump sum option in 2003?
Click to expand...

The lump sum option in our plan was unilateral removed in mid 1980's
I worked for a crew chief that was one of the last to get that option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Pilots’ union to ask American Airlines, bankruptcy judge for more time?
Replies
14
Views
3K
Tex-Mech
Tex-Mech
Hatu
pilots’ union indicates decision
2
Replies
20
Views
5K
Phoenix
Phoenix
J
American & US Airways apply to transfer all Intl routes to AA
Replies
14
Views
4K
IORFA
I
C
Pilots board approves proposal 9-7...now what?
3 4 5
Replies
69
Views
14K
Buck
Buck
U
American Airlines rebranding ‘very soon’
11 12 13
Replies
180
Views
31K
777 / 767 / 757 Love
7

Latest posts

Back
Top