PHL Ramp Problems

[usairways85]

No doubt PHL''s facilities suck, with limited space it is extremely hard to expand and will be costly to do. The new A-west is a rather far walk and hopefully moving walkways will be installed, but it isn''t that bad. The waiting areas at some gates are incrediably small, maybe enough seats to allow half the plane to sit while waiting to board. The rest just have to wonder around or lean against a wall. US should implement a better shuttle bus service than what they have. It should stop at F, C, B, and A. Currently many busses just sit idle or run with 5 passengers max.

However, as many of you can''t get....take away the PHL hub and US will burn up in smoke. Despite the many problems PHL faces, if you take away 12 daily transatlantic flights and 18 caribbean destinations, the carrier will be helpless. US'' caribbean expansion out of BOS is great, but any caribbean expansion out of LGA and DCA is doubtful and if US really tried to expand FLL or MCO to the caribbean, AA would quickly take action. Sorry, but regardless of the multitude of problems PHL has, it''s still crucial to the US Airways network.

 

[tadjr]

The staffing numbers are great in the computer perfect world, but not in reality. We had a horrendous day yesterday with 1 delayed flight causing lines out the door. Should have been staffed adequately, but somehow they forget that we are to take a 30 min lunch sometime during the day. Manager couldnt understand why we only had 4 agents working the lines when we have 6 scheduled (this also included all 6 of us skipping our first 15 min break to work the line). Just cause it looks good on paper DOES NOT mean it works in reality.

 

[PITbull]

Supercruiser,

Very insightful logic there...no one can argue sufficiently any of your facts you bring to the front row. Not enough to be convincing.

Management's thinking and actions continue to prove eratic and "off the cuff".

Just last year in March, Dave said at a meeting with AFA that in his opinion, CLT was nothing more than a hub on "steroids". Now, he conveys that its PIT that needs to be taken out.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 7/9/2003 8:00:47 PM tadjr wrote:


The staffing numbers are great in the computer perfect world, but not in reality. We had a horrendous day yesterday with 1 delayed flight causing lines out the door. Should have been staffed adequately, but somehow they forget that we are to take a 30 min lunch sometime during the day. Manager couldnt understand why we only had 4 agents working the lines when we have 6 scheduled (this also included all 6 of us skipping our first 15 min break to work the line). Just cause it looks good on paper DOES NOT mean it works in reality.

You mean none of those shiny ticket machines didn''t step up to the plate...

 

[MarkMyWords]

Supercruiser -

While I agree that PHL has its operational problems, many can be solved by making it a continuous flow hub. Our current system of banking flights does nothing but compound the problems that we face in PHL daily. I don''t agree with Clue''s analysis of PHL as a continuous flow hub. Destinations in FL, the Caribbean and major business centers have a lot of demand for local traffic out of PHL. If you maintain jet service to these places every 2-3 hours you will have the ability for anyone to connect to these flights with in an acceptable time. Now places like ALB, SYR, ROC, CMH do not have the strong local demand and it wouldn''t make sense to offer service every 2-3 hours with a 737. But it would make sense if you offered that service on an RJ every 2-3 hours and increase frequencies. So instead of ALB-PHL having 4 flights a day on a 737, they could have 8 flights a day on the RJ''s and offer more connecting opportunites and better choices for the customer.

Then factor is the cost savings from wasted fuel when you have an entire complex waiting for the runway within 10 minutes, versus a slow and steady trickle of flights in and out. Crew productivity increases because the first flight in no longer has to wait for the last flight to get in with connections to depart. Every airplane has a quick 40+ minute turn depending on the aircraft type. Agent/Utility productivity increases because they can work more flights in an 8 hour shift then with the banking system. Because it is continuous flow, you would still have to utilize the same number of employees because you will have to schedule break and lunch relief where in the hub system we have now, breaks are schduled all at once when the bank is gone.

Again, the continuous flow hub concept would reduce hub costs, increase prductivity, reduce fuel costs and reduce ATC constraints. Mainline airplanes to the most popular destinations: MCO, TPA, FLL, ORD, DFW, ATL, etc. Regional Jets to increase frequencies while maintaining current capacity at stations like ALB, SYR, CMH, ROC, BUF, etc.

Pity -

I wasn''t saying that the COB postings were a direct result of someone being fired for the PHL bag fiasco. I was merely asking if it was coincidence or were people actually being held accountable. Seems interesting that those 3 positions all became available at the same time. Let''s say that you are the CEO and you see the financial results of the bag incident. Where do you start for accountability. If it were you, it is at the VP level. If it were me, it is at the local level. To me, the way the local management handled the ordeal was inexcuseable. Did that stop at the local level, probably not. Could the Regional be held accountable? Depends on his level of involvement. Should the VP? Sure. Depending on his level of involvement.

Oldie -

Dave and company had nothing to do with the design or construciton of terminal A in PHL. If you will remember, that was a W&G project. And exactly where would you have put the new international terminal in PHL? Or would you rather we just continue to operate out of the old one and use the PTV''s? There is not a lot of places to put a new concourse in PHL so to expand, you have to go where the land availability is. Hence the new A and F concourses. The layout of the International A is very similar to operations at other international airports. Even PIT. I can''t remember the gate numbers, but if you arrive at the farthest gates in the corner, you can''t board at the next gate up the concourse because customers off the inbound flight have to pass your gate in the arrivlas hallway to get to Immigration/Customs. I believe it is the same set up in CLT, IAD, ATL, DTW, ORD. I would love to see all these low cost carriers you talk about come into PHL and offer flights to SNN, FRA, AUA, BGI, etc. You think you can design a better airport, then you missed your calling.

PHL Flash -

Job reassignemnts don''t necessarily mean that they are a promotion. They are moving people to positions that better suit there abilites. Perhaps Bill would be better at running an out station then the Ramp Operations in PHL. It depends on how you look at it and what his career goals were. And going from Planning and Perfomance Manager to Catering Manager, does that sound like a promotion to you? As for the CCY ManPower Analyst, Do you see a common thread here? He used to be in PHL, He helped with the PHL numbers, He did the schedule, etc. Could that be why there is a vacancy there now?

I am not saying that the system isn''t overburdend and understaffed. Yes, there are major staffing issues everywhere. Hopefully this is going to be addressed.

 

[LavMan]

PHL''s problem could be solved, have Westinghouse, Feds and State clean up the abandon plant and use it to expand the airport. Plenty of land their to use.

 

[supercruiser]

>>While I agree that PHL has its operational problems, many can be solved by making it a continuous flow hub>Then factor is the cost savings from wasted fuel when you have an entire complex waiting for the runway within 10 minutes, versus a slow and steady trickle of flights in and out.

 

[fast]

Dear Pitt Bull.
Just a fyi.. Dave did have something to do with the new A terminal design. This building was changed daily. The designs and blueprints were a mess. When B/K was filed constuction stopped and to restart it required 3 signatures to get going again. One was Daves, The Cites and the construction company itself. Everyone wanted to be sure they got the $$$.
The constuction firm changed hands 2 times if I remember. Check out USAirways employee page. They had details.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

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On 7/10/2003 8:55:17 PM LavMan wrote:


PHL''s problem could be solved, have Westinghouse, Feds and State clean up the abandon plant and use it to expand the airport.  Plenty of land their to use.

----------------​

The City of Philly is actively considering actions commensurate with your suggestion, including reconfiguring the entire airfield and/or building a runway in the Delaware and/or reconfiguring the terminal... who knows what will happen, but some near term capacity improvements are ''fast tracked'' FWIW.

 

[blueoceans]

"Just last year in March, Dave said at a meeting with AFA that in his opinion, CLT was nothing more than a hub on "steroids". Now, he conveys that its PIT that needs to be taken out."

Dave has also said that Charlotte was one of the best airports in the country and he''s hugely satisfied with it. PIT is a GREAT airport and PHL is a HUGE city. The problem is that two hubs in the state of PA do not an efficient airline make.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 7/11/2003 8:08:15 AM RowUnderDCA wrote:

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On 7/10/2003 8:55:17 PM LavMan wrote:


PHL''s problem could be solved, have Westinghouse, Feds and State clean up the abandon plant and use it to expand the airport.  Plenty of land their to use.

----------------​

The City of Philly is actively considering actions commensurate with your suggestion, including reconfiguring the entire airfield and/or building a runway in the Delaware and/or reconfiguring the terminal... who knows what will happen, but some near term capacity improvements are ''fast tracked'' FWIW.


Unfortunately, PHL is a union town which means there will be cost overruns and will need 20 years to finish the project...US doesn''t have 20 years to wait....

 

[supercruiser]

For air travelers, a long and winding road
The expanded airport has sign and distance drawbacks.
By Tom Belden
Inquirer Staff Writer


JOHN COSTELLO / Inquirer

Frequent travelers Don and Sher Kasum (far left) make the trek from Terminal F to Terminal E, one of the airport’s trouble spots.


Most air travelers these days are prepared to pull off their shoes before going through airport security. But in Philadelphia, a pair of sturdy hiking boots may be more appropriate.

Though Philadelphia International Airport has been improved dramatically in many ways over the last two years, an expansion has created a set of terminals that sprawl for more than a mile and require walking longer distances than ever before.

Travelers say some of the long walks are made more annoying by what has been inadequate or confusing signage in the new international terminal and in Terminal F. Some of the problems are typical for new public facilities, where good signs are not always up by opening day.

But some of the annoyances have persisted for months, especially at Terminal F, where a new, more direct route to get from the baggage-claim area to ground transportation opened in May, but without a sign at a key location telling travelers it was there. Thus many travelers have walked more than twice as far as they have had to.

With the summer vacation season in full swing, the problems could give fits to an even larger-than-average number of airport users.

On any given day, such people can be found in various states of confusion.

Perhaps Claire Grasier, for example, will be able to navigate the twists and turns at the airport after she has earned her doctorate. But recently, the former US Airways employee, now a graduate student at Immaculata University, was standing in a corridor of the new international terminal, A-West, looking at a directional sign, baffled about where to go to return a piece of luggage to British Airways that a friend had taken away by mistake.

"I worked at the airport for 19 years and I can''t find my way around," Grasier said with a laugh. "It''s really not clear... and I''m working on a doctorate."

On a recent Sunday, Scott and Diane Selkowitz of Havertown experienced what can happen if travelers are not able to follow a normal route out of Terminal A-West.

After arriving from London on British Airways and clearing Customs in A-West, they found themselves among a confused gaggle of visitors from abroad trying to find the rest of the airport. Because two escalators were not working, travelers were taking what Scott Selkowitz said was a single working elevator to a ground-floor corridor, where a small cardboard sign provided the only clue about which way to turn.

"Foreign visitors were saying, ''I have a US Airways flight. Where do I go?'' " he said. "There''s no one to ask. Those of us from Philadelphia were giving directions, and it was embarrassing."

Airport users also can be stumped by temporary signs directing people from the parking garages to the airline counters and baggage-claim areas of A-West, which opened in May. The signs, which will be in place at least two more months, have more than 30 lines of information on them, requiring a careful reading to avoid a wrong turn.

Some of the longest walks are for US Airways passengers departing on international flights, and for arriving international travelers connecting to a domestic flight on any airline. Though the A-West departure gates opened more than two months ago, the terminal''s ticket counters and its ground-transportation pickup zones are not scheduled to be ready until late next month.

That means departing US Airways passengers still check in at the Terminal B-C ticket counter and then could have a long walk to reach their gate.

"It''s a never-ending challenge," city Aviation Director Charles J. Isdell said. "We''ve expanded the terminal area by about a third over the last few years."

Isdell said his staff had tried to determine whether the airport required longer walks than other facilities its size, but had not found information with which to make a valid comparison.

Isdell said he sent staffers out recently to determine how long it took to walk from gates on the A-West concourse, where all international flights arrive, to the first rest rooms, just before passengers enter Immigration.

"The longest is a 21/2-minute walk," he said. "That doesn''t sound extreme to me, but if someone''s been on a plane for eight hours... they might feel grumpy about that."

Since the mid-1990s, the airport has installed 22 moving sidewalks that help over long, straight corridors. But the basic design of the airport, which has grown over half a century from a single blocky building where Terminals B and C are now, means long walks are unavoidable.

"There is clearly a trade-off," Isdell said. "This [A-West] is a gigantic building, to be able to accommodate wide-bodied aircraft. The trade-off is on a human scale."

Until mid-May, getting from the Terminal F baggage-claim area to a parking garage, shuttle bus, taxi or limousine was another annoyance at an airport where construction projects have annoyed travelers for a decade.

"It''s terrible," said an exhausted business traveler, Anh Lam, an engineer from Allentown, who was hauling three pieces of luggage from Terminal F toward Terminal E recently. "It would be a good workout if I weren''t so tired."

Lam and others were dismayed to learn they were taking the long way around. Their route required going up one floor and walking more than 1,100 feet, from the Terminal F baggage-claim area over one long bridge to Terminal E, and then over another bridge to the ground-transportation zones on the arrivals roadway system between Terminals D and E.

The travelers could have gotten close to the same point by walking about 500 feet, using a bridge that opened in May, directly linking Terminal F to the airport''s parking garages and Terminal E arrivals roadway and ground transportation.

But it will be the end of this month - and require more study by airport consultants - before signs are scheduled to go up directing travelers to the new bridge, airport officials said. That means for now, most people do not know they have any choice but to do what they have been forced to do since Terminal F opened in June 2001.

"It''s a bit of a hassle," said Jim Yosh, a business traveler from Richmond, Va., who comes to the region frequently and was hustling over the bridge toward Terminal E, carrying a suitcase, a golf bag, and a briefcase. "I''ve had to lug my bags from here to the other terminal before. It''s a headache."

Airport officials said consultants were used to recommend where to put all signs, and how big they should be, to make sure they have a uniform look and are not done haphazardly. Officials said they often do not put up directional signs on the first day a facility opens, but wait to see which way traffic seems to flow naturally. In addition, the officials said they wanted to finish a separate construction project on the Terminal D and E arrivals roadway before putting up permanent signs.

Terminal F is the only one at the airport where the baggage-claim area is in the same building with ticket counters. It was designed that way because of a lack of space to build a separate baggage-claim building next to Terminal E, and because most passengers using the building were not expected to be ending their trip and retrieving bags there.

But US Airways Express flights increasingly are replacing US Airways mainline jet service, meaning that more travelers between cities such as Philadelphia and Cleveland, Cincinnati, Richmond, Va., and St. Louis are using Terminal F - and have to find their way to and from ground transportation.

Until last month, travelers faced another hassle once they reached Terminal E - whichever route they took. Construction on the airport''s main arrivals roadway past Terminals D and E forced all ground-transportation services to the back side of the Terminal D baggage-claim building. Since that work was finished, traffic headed to the D and E arrivals area has flowed much more smoothly.

"While it was not pretty, hopefully it has a happy ending," Isdell said.

 

[Pacemaker]

Ongoing problems at PHL are more evidence to me that JCMD is not serious about running the best airline possible for the long-term. If he was you would see a row of tents filled with cots parked on the ramp because Dave and a mess of middle-managment types would be camped out 24/7 until the problems were addressed. After the 1,000th time you wait for a jetway driver (tip-this doesn't happen anywhere else) you begin to realize that no one is in charge of this mess. The number-crunchers told him they laid off x number of people and their apparant costs decreased by x amount and that's the end of the story for JCMD.

And just think folks, most of your pay and work-rule givebacks that were supposed to "save" the airline are instead being sucked headlong into the gaping, black, dripping, bottomless maw of PHL.