PBGC Max Monthly Guarantee Tables

[DNTULSA]

FYI,

http://www.pbgc.gov/

Check it out and get informed.

B) xUT

Thanks, xUT,

I guess I don't have to worry about a pension reduction.
I was a mechanic.

 

[xUT]

Thanks, xUT,

I guess I don't have to worry about a pension reduction.
I was a mechanic.

Enjoy your well deserved retirement Sir!
B) xUT

 

[eolesen]

My understanding is that those who retired and/or have an annual benefit exceeding the ~$54K or whatever it is *will* be affected if the plan doesn't have the assets to cover it.

If you've retired and are over 60, probably no worries. It's the people who left at 50-60 and started drawing at 55 who may have trouble. The same thing happened with GM retirees who took the 30 years & out that the UAW offered. There were lots of 49 year old retirees.

 

[OldBubba]

Welcome to the PBGC!!!!!

I'm old TWA . this what I believe I have with The PBGC

If your young than 55 ( I was) you can draw 1/2 of your retirement when you turn 55, working or not for the company.
( Next year I turn 55 and I'll draw $95 a mo )
If you wait tell 56 to start drawing, you would get 60% of you retirement. A 10% increase each year. If you wait tell 65, you draw full retirement.
( If I wait tell I'm 65 I',, draw $190 a mo.)

Here the big GUN you draw no interst on your retirement!

For those who where 55, they got thier full retiement at 55.
I remember one guy that was 1 day away from 55! Talk about getting Sr#$%^!!!

 

[xUT]

Welcome to the PBGC!!!!!

I'm old TWA . this what I believe I have with The PBGC

If your young than 55 ( I was) you can draw 1/2 of your retirement when you turn 55, working or not for the company.
( Next year I turn 55 and I'll draw $95 a mo )
If you wait tell 56 to start drawing, you would get 60% of you retirement. A 10% increase each year. If you wait tell 65, you draw full retirement.
( If I wait tell I'm 65 I',, draw $190 a mo.)

Here the big GUN you draw no interst on your retirement!

For those who where 55, they got thier full retiement at 55.
I remember one guy that was 1 day away from 55! Talk about getting Sr#$%^!!!

Yep, I made the 55 cutoff by 14 days or would have been screwed.
B) xUT

 

[dfw gen]

a little clearance on the age based chart if you are say 48 years old when the plan is terminated the chart says the monthly max is $1452.00, if you have twenty one years in the plan and your pension statement says that if you left today at age 65 you would receive $23,000.00 a year. would that mean that my monthly max would be the figure at plan termination ie $1452.00 a month? or would it be the amount that i started to collect at my retirement age? if it freezes at plan termination and the age of termination i would lose $6000.00 a year. Or would it be $23,000.00 divided by 12 ie $1916.00 per month under the age limit at 65 years old when i choose to collect? also how does the level of funding figure in to the final picture, i have heard that the plan is funded anywhere from 60% to 85%?

 

[dfw gen]

xUT spoke to an ex twa'er last night he said this would make 4 times he went thru it! He explained that for a long time TWA did not have a retirement plan that was why his figure was so low. never really sat down and actually listened to how bad you guys got hosed over the years.

 

[Kellerguy]

a little clearance on the age based chart if you are say 48 years old when the plan is terminated the chart says the monthly max is $1452.00, if you have twenty one years in the plan and your pension statement says that if you left today at age 65 you would receive $23,000.00 a year. would that mean that my monthly max would be the figure at plan termination ie $1452.00 a month? or would it be the amount that i started to collect at my retirement age? if it freezes at plan termination and the age of termination i would lose $6000.00 a year. Or would it be $23,000.00 divided by 12 ie $1916.00 per month under the age limit at 65 years old when i choose to collect? also how does the level of funding figure in to the final picture, i have heard that the plan is funded anywhere from 60% to 85%?

My understanding is that it would be as follows. Any estimate on the PBGC payout would be on the 23000 per year divided by 12 for the monthly value if that says what you would get if you retired now. There is a heavy penalty though should you decide to draw earlier, at 10% per month per their tables, so if you use the company tables for early retirement, they would be wrong if the plan is terminated. If the plan is frozen, then the same holds true, except the company tables for early retirement would still be accurate. The amount of the pension shortfall I think may be another matter, where they will seek restitution via the unsecured creditors committee, probably seeking to get equity in the company following an IPO when they issue new stock once they are ready to reemerge from out of bankruptcy. Several recent law changes provide the ability for the company to freeze the plan and prolong the payments over 15-17 years to the PBGC as an incentive to not terminate.

One other consideration for many on this board is that active employees and retirees are not represented in the same manner in the unsecured creditors committees, or better put retirees are not represented at all. This has caused active versus retirees interests to NOT be aligned.

 

[FWAAA]

a little clearance on the age based chart if you are say 48 years old when the plan is terminated the chart says the monthly max is $1452.00, if you have twenty one years in the plan and your pension statement says that if you left today at age 65 you would receive $23,000.00 a year. would that mean that my monthly max would be the figure at plan termination ie $1452.00 a month? or would it be the amount that i started to collect at my retirement age? if it freezes at plan termination and the age of termination i would lose $6000.00 a year. Or would it be $23,000.00 divided by 12 ie $1916.00 per month under the age limit at 65 years old when i choose to collect? also how does the level of funding figure in to the final picture, i have heard that the plan is funded anywhere from 60% to 85%?

Your pension will be completely protected if your accrued benefit if you quit today would be $23k/yr at age 65. Because AA filed in 2011, the 2012 tables are irrelevant - use the 2011 tables. So if you begin taking your pension at age 65, the monthly max is $4500 for straight annuity or $4050/mo if you choose a joint & survivor annuity. If you begin collecting at age 60, the limits of $2925/mo or $2633/mo are still larger than your accrued benefit of $23k/yr, and your pension would be significantly smaller than $23k/year if you retired at age 60. You'll be fine. Generally, it's the pilots who get trimmed. Exact level of funding won't matter since your numbers are within the limits.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

All these calculations presume the PBGC has the funds.

They don't.

The PBGC is seriously underfunded already, well before AA's default, which will be the largest pension default in history.

Congress set the funding for the PBGC at a low rate to be kind to Big Business, and has shown no inclination to adjust the funding to assure solvency and the ability to meet PBGC commitments. Congress has known about this time bomb for years, but has shown no inclination to act.

At some point, either Congress will have to raise payments by employers or cut PBGC payouts. Raising contributions by employers is not "business friendly", so it won't happen. That leaves us with the other obvious consequence..........reduction of PBGC payouts.

 

[Buck]

All these calculations presume the PBGC has the funds.

They don't.

The PBGC is seriously underfunded already, well before AA's default, which will be the largest pension default in history.

Congress set the funding for the PBGC at a low rate to be kind to Big Business, and has shown no inclination to adjust the funding to assure solvency and the ability to meet PBGC commitments. Congress has known about this time bomb for years, but has shown no inclination to act.

At some point, either Congress will have to raise payments by employers or cut PBGC payouts. Raising contributions by employers is not "business friendly", so it won't happen. That leaves us with the other obvious consequence..........reduction of PBGC payouts.

Nor does the company or the Government.