Passengers Subdue Man On Southwest Flight

[wingwalker]

We've had drunks, drug abusers, etc... on board for all the decades that I've been flying. Yes, the cabin crew has had it's training to try and "diffuse" a situation. But then common sense kicks in. Passengers have always assisted the cabin crews with the crazy passenger(s). I've also never been afraid to kick the living hell out of a passenger who is getting wild or use my "tools" that are handy to subdue a passenger. If that bottle of Chardonay over the head doesn't work, that pot of hot coffee will. Those are the most extreme cases. But every time, the passengers have backed us up and the Judge saw it our way.

 

[SKY HIGH]

Or would you try to engage the guy in a "heart to heart" about "feeling his pain" and trying to get him back in the seat? Or might you find it difficult to reason with him as he was kicking at the cockpit door????

Sky high states: Spare me your sarcasm. I watched lower Manhattan smoke for months! My parents lived in NYC for 25 years. I'm all about SAFETY AND SECURITY. I grew up with it.
That a young man died at the hands of passengers on Southwest has me wondering why NO ONE will comment on how this incident was handled POORLY.
Bother way, KCFlyer, this incident happened PRIOR to 9-11. TRY SEPT 2000!!!

 

[swflyer]

That a young man died at the hands of passengers on Southwest has me wondering why NO ONE will comment on how this incident was handled POORLY.
Bother way, KCFlyer, this incident happened PRIOR to 9-11. TRY SEPT 2000!!!

[post="244109"][/post]​

Okay, what, if anything, does this 5 year old event have to do with the current attempt at the cockpit, foiled with the assistance of the passengers???

SKY HIGH ----> Ax to Grind??? <_<

 

[SWAFA30]

That a young man died at the hands of passengers on Southwest has me wondering why NO ONE will
comment on how this incident was handled POORLY.

I'll be glad to comment. To comment on what happened on the SLC bound flight where the passenger died would be inappropriate...I wasn't there.

As a Flight Attendant I can comment on the fact that prior to 9/11 we were...and to a large extent still are woefully unprepared for such an occurence. We're not trained for what happened on that flight. Period. Only since 9/11 has any type of quantative self-defense training been made available to me as a cabin crewmember and even then I am required to take it at my expense and on my own time.

If the crew handled the situation poorly, it's because they were never trained to do otherwise.


But, none of us wants to see this kind of thing keep happening. I'm headed in for my annual recurrent training in a few months...at the end of the session, we are asked for suggestions. What would you have me tell our training department we could do to keep this from happening again?

Until the level of training improves you will continue to have a mixture of unruly passengers, ill-prepared crewmembers and passengers who feel their lives are in danger...this will continue to be a recipe for disaster.

 

[SKY HIGH]

I'll be glad to comment. To comment on what happened on the SLC bound flight where the passenger died.
Until the level of training improves you will continue to have a mixture of unruly passengers, ill-prepared crewmembers and passengers who feel their lives are in danger...this will continue to be a recipe for disaster.


Sky high states: Beautiful post, SWAFA30. The industry MUST "redefine" Flight attendant training.

 

[KCFlyer]

Sky high states: Beautiful post, SWAFA30. The industry MUST "redefine" Flight attendant training.

My bad on the dates. Maybe terrorists read the papers and realized that SWA passengers might have posed a problem for them. But....right now you say that the industry MUST redefine FA training, yet just a couple of days ago, southwest was negligent and exhibited poor "CRM" skills. And since you pointed out that it was PRIOR to 9/11 - when breaches of the cockpit were not considered a high priority - then why do you try to paint SWA in a rather bad light??

 

[Dizel8]

"That a young man died at the hands of passengers on Southwest has me wondering why NO ONE will comment on how this incident was handled POORLY">

The fact that he lost his life is sad, but having heard the story, it does not keep me awake at night, nor did the DOJ see a need to press charges.

 

[stockinluv]

you can't defend against drunk stupid passengers. i think the best cure for this problem is just what is happening right now. if you know you are subject to getting a little rowdy after a few drinks, and won't stay in your seat, chances are you'll be a prime canidate for a 100 passenger beat down in the air then arrested when you land. no one is tolerating air rage anymore

 

[tornyhoad]

Or would you try to engage the guy in a "heart to heart" about "feeling his pain" and trying to get him back in the seat? Or might you find it difficult to reason with him as he was kicking at the cockpit door????

Sky high states: Spare me your sarcasm. I watched lower Manhattan smoke for months! My parents lived in NYC for 25 years. I'm all about SAFETY AND SECURITY. I grew up with it.
That a young man died at the hands of passengers on Southwest has me wondering why NO ONE will comment on how this incident was handled POORLY.
Bother way, KCFlyer, this incident happened PRIOR to 9-11. TRY SEPT 2000!!!

[post="244109"][/post]​

I don't give a fat flying f*** about your parents and where they live, big freaken deal. That idiot who died on our a/c got what he deserved. I think thats what should happen to any moron who screws up and tries to kick in the cockpit door....DEATH TO THEM ALL, IMO. Better to have one idiot dead than 137 dead. If you dont see it my way then tough crap, get over being wrong, :angry: .

 

[mweiss]

Wow...you paid money to be able to post that?

 

[wingwalker]

"you can't defend against drunk stupid passengers. i think the best cure for this problem is just what is happening right now. if you know you are subject to getting a little rowdy after a few drinks, and won't stay in your seat, chances are you'll be a prime canidate for a 100 passenger beat down in the air then arrested when you land. no one is tolerating air rage anymore"

You are exactly right. I've been a Flight Attendant for a very long time. Common sense takes over when things start going down hill. It's always been "Keep 'em out of the Cockpit" (now Flight Deck) whatever it takes. And it's been that way pre - 9/11. Physical force is the last resort, but is an option. If a Flight Attendant is thinking it may get physical, it probably will and the rest of the passengers are aware of what's going on. I've always had passengers willing to back us up. Especially now.

What happened to the man who died had nothing to do with training. I seem to remember that he was drunk and had been doing drugs. One cannot "train" for the perfect scenario. One must use their head. That man sealed his own fate when HE decided to drink and HE decided to do drugs and involve the other passengers and crew into HIS life. It is/was a sorry out come. But none that anyone could have predicted. Even today, just from the tv show, people still don't get it. Some passengers are their own worst enemies.

 

[wingwalker]

"I'll be glad to comment. To comment on what happened on the SLC bound flight where the passenger died would be inappropriate...I wasn't there.

As a Flight Attendant I can comment on the fact that prior to 9/11 we were...and to a large extent still are woefully unprepared for such an occurence. We're not trained for what happened on that flight. Period. Only since 9/11 has any type of quantative self-defense training been made available to me as a cabin crewmember and even then I am required to take it at my expense and on my own time.

If the crew handled the situation poorly, it's because they were never trained to do otherwise.
But, none of us wants to see this kind of thing keep happening. I'm headed in for my annual recurrent training in a few months...at the end of the session, we are asked for suggestions. What would you have me tell our training department we could do to keep this from happening again?

Until the level of training improves you will continue to have a mixture of unruly passengers, ill-prepared crewmembers and passengers who feel their lives are in danger...this will continue to be a recipe for disaster."


SWAFA - I to am a Flight Attendant. The only difference in training post 9/11 is to no longer be passive, but aggresive. The law states that self-defense training is optional. At my airline, one can take it or not take it. If one chooses to take the class, our company will pay for it. But of course any airline can have their own rules. They have to at least have it available. No rule as to how it is made available.

What kind of training do you think you or the crew needed to have had a different outcome? The minute that guy hit that door, start yelling for help and grab the nearest hard object and whack him over the head with it. That's what a Flight Attendant should do. The heck with any image you want to portray at that point.

Training will do nothing to change the quality of passengers that fly. When I started to fly, people dressed when they came on board. Now it's an inner city bus station. (don't be offended, check out chicagos downtown facility sometime) The ground staff can only check for the obvious signs of intoxication, mental illness or if someone is having a meltdown out in the waiting area before they get on the plane. Unless every passenger undergoes some sort of mental compentcy test, we're always going to have some screwballs. It's up to you to understand that. Educate yourself as much as you can, but ultimately it is up to you if you feel comfortable flying these days. I'm not afraid to fly. 9/11 did shake me up, my very first leg when they opened the airports again was the flight path over lower Manhatten into LGA. I am more aware than ever, but I'm not going to let anyone drive me from my chosen profession.

 

[wnbubbleboy]

I don't give a fat flying f*** about your parents and where they live, big freaken deal. That idiot who died on our a/c got what he deserved. I think thats what should happen to any moron who screws up and tries to kick in the cockpit door....DEATH TO THEM ALL, IMO. Better to have one idiot dead than 137 dead. If you dont see it my way then tough crap, get over being wrong, :angry: .

[post="244480"][/post]​

Lighten up Francis :down: I doubt anyone had the intention of killing anyone. I remember seeing the guy interveiwed who held him down. He was just trying to protect his daughter who was on the flight with him.

 

[WNjetdoc]

I don't give a fat flying f*** about your parents and where they live, big freaken deal. That idiot who died on our a/c got what he deserved. I think thats what should happen to any moron who screws up and tries to kick in the cockpit door....DEATH TO THEM ALL, IMO. Better to have one idiot dead than 137 dead. If you dont see it my way then tough crap, get over being wrong,  :angry: .

[post="244480"][/post]​

Humm, strange. I was in Philly yesterday, went to Usaviation and made a post....the exact same post above. It would seem that tornyhoad left himself signed on, then me, just assuming I am signed in on every computer in the system, (joke for you slow folks), made the above post but under tornyhoads sign in....sorry dude.

So I didn't pay anything for the post mweiss. I don't want anyone to think I feel everyone should be killed on our flights that do stupid stuff like that, but if you do then you're taking a chance. As I said above, better to kill one than 137. If that idiot had actually broken into the c/p then who knows what would've happened. He screwed up, big time, and paid the ultimate price.

Oh, and for you, Bubblebuttboy, I didn't say the passengers intended to kill the nitwit, but when you are fighting for your life stuff happens. You being an X-Navy squid should appreciate putting your life on the line, correct? Now was it moops or moors?

 

[wnbubbleboy]

You being an X-Navy squid should appreciate putting your life on the line, correct? Now was it moops or moors?

[post="244739"][/post]​

Tornyhoad, I apologize.

Jetdoc, got it.

Now with regards to me being a squid I would like to clarify:

We both got our checks from the same place they were stamped "Department of the Navy." I carried ALICE around with me everywhere, slept outside, and my tool was and M-16. You sir, in the AIR side grew your hair long and had beer bellies, and loose women. So I do admit you're a little smarter than I was, but I was never a squid. Semper Fi.