One airline/3 different F/A scheduling ways

[ContUNITEus]

So... from what I know (and I could be wrong), all new F/As at AA are supposed to be on the system that is used at most international airlines, the one I believe that also Delta uses - a hard schedule with Reserve days (10 if I got that right).

Then, all pre-2013 F/As at AA are continuing with their rotations - A few months reserve / 1 month line-holder - the more senior you are, the less reserve months you serve.

And then there is system 3, which is the old US Airways and America West way that is basically AFAs way of dealing with seniority - Straight Reserve until one hopeful day(decade) you become a line-holder.

-------------------

I wonder what culture clashes alone from this subject will ensue at the new American....

It is an unfortunate fact that there is no way a senior US/HP F/A will ever submit to the idea of doing not even one day of reserve.

As a matter of fact, some senior AWA flight attendants truly believe and state that they put in their time on reserve - a reserve period that most likely lasted six months atop. You could not possibly try to explain to them that there are F/As at US that have been on reserve for almost 20 years... and that in order to be fair and improve the lifestyle of everyone on property, senior people would also have to pitch in.

So, with AA now in the mix, I wonder how this whole thing will pan out... considering that historically speaking, APFA has been completely opposite on this subject as what is preached by AFA carriers.

I wonder...

How many AA F/As are SENIORITY-DOWN-YOUR-THROAT and nothing else, considering that currently it is not that way?

At the new AA, once a new contract is negociated, what is the most likely system it will go for F/As - System 1, 2 or 3?

 

[eolesen]

Considering AA flight attendants will make up 70% of the combined workforce, it might be a moot point, but certainly curious to hear some of the reactions.

You also have to look at the relative seniority... given how little hiring AA has done since 2001, the HP folks may have second thoughts if they realize they're at the bottom of a DOH list.

 

[silverbird007]

So... from what I know (and I could be wrong), all new F/As at AA are supposed to be on the system that is used at most international airlines, the one I believe that also Delta uses - a hard schedule with Reserve days (10 if I got that right).

Then, all pre-2013 F/As at AA are continuing with their rotations - A few months reserve / 1 month line-holder - the more senior you are, the less reserve months you serve.

And then there is system 3, which is the old US Airways and America West way that is basically AFAs way of dealing with seniority - Straight Reserve until one hopeful day(decade) you become a line-holder.

-------------------

I wonder what culture clashes alone from this subject will ensue at the new American....

It is an unfortunate fact that there is no way a senior US/HP F/A will ever submit to the idea of doing not even one day of reserve.

As a matter of fact, some senior AWA flight attendants truly believe and state that they put in their time on reserve - a reserve period that most likely lasted six months atop. You could not possibly try to explain to them that there are F/As at US that have been on reserve for almost 20 years... and that in order to be fair and improve the lifestyle of everyone on property, senior people would also have to pitch in.

So, with AA now in the mix, I wonder how this whole thing will pan out... considering that historically speaking, APFA has been completely opposite on this subject as what is preached by AFA carriers.

I wonder...

How many AA F/As are SENIORITY-DOWN-YOUR-THROAT and nothing else, considering that currently it is not that way?

At the new AA, once a new contract is negociated, what is the most likely system it will go for F/As - System 1, 2 or 3?

at AA we do 1 month of reserve and hold a line for 3 months, the new hires are going to do 6 days per month of reserve every month until their seniority can hold off reserve. So as of now I'm doing reserve 3 full months per year. i have 15 years and even with the early outs and new hires I don't think I will be off reserve anytime soon. Now with the US merger I will probably never get off unless I fly until I'm 70 (maybe)! I'm hoping that we get a buyout offer again. wasn't eligible for the last one but I will be for the next one. The 6 days per month sounds good to me!

 

[jimntx]

As Silverbird pointed out, those of us who are already here will continue our current system--3 months lineholder followed by 1 month reserve--until we get senior enough to not serve reserve at all. This, of course, varies by base. If it's still like it used to be f/as at LGA are off reserve by the 5th or 6 year because the majority of new hires go to LGA. At DFW, a flight attendant with over 20 years is still subject to 3 months reserve each year.

I would have loved to go to the system in place for the new hires--a few days reserve each month until senior enough to get rid of them--but the senior flight attendants and the union blocked this because some who were already off reserve might have to go back and serve those 6 days reserve each month for a time.

At the time AA implemented its current system, it must have been a stunner. In those days most airlines did the US Airways/America West way--everyone started as a reserve and eventually became a lineholder. AA's system must have really shocked some people. For instance, there was no one doing straight reserve--even new hires. When I started in 2000, I served alternating reserve and line months for the first 3 years--what we call one-on, one-off. After 3 years I went to the 3 off, 1 on reserve pattern until I get enough years to be off reserve (which I won't live long enough for that to happen at DFW. )

The reserve system for the new hires is looking forward to the combining of the Domestic and International flight attendant corps which will be completed in 2-3 years and which will result in a need for fewer reserve flight attendants at any given time because (at least in theory) all flight attendants subject to reserve will be qualified on all equipment and all routes.

 

[silverbird007]

As Silverbird pointed out, those of us who are already here will continue our current system--3 months lineholder followed by 1 month reserve--until we get senior enough to not serve reserve at all. This, of course, varies by base. If it's still like it used to be f/as at LGA are off reserve by the 5th or 6 year because the majority of new hires go to LGA. At DFW, a flight attendant with over 20 years is still subject to 3 months reserve each year.

I would have loved to go to the system in place for the new hires--a few days reserve each month until senior enough to get rid of them--but the senior flight attendants and the union blocked this because some who were already off reserve might have to go back and serve those 6 days reserve each month for a time.

At the time AA implemented its current system, it must have been a stunner. In those days most airlines did the US Airways/America West way--everyone started as a reserve and eventually became a lineholder. AA's system must have really shocked some people. For instance, there was no one doing straight reserve--even new hires. When I started in 2000, I served alternating reserve and line months for the first 3 years--what we call one-on, one-off. After 3 years I went to the 3 off, 1 on reserve pattern until I get enough years to be off reserve (which I won't live long enough for that to happen at DFW. )

The reserve system for the new hires is looking forward to the combining of the Domestic and International flight attendant corps which will be completed in 2-3 years and which will result in a need for fewer reserve flight attendants at any given time because (at least in theory) all flight attendants subject to reserve will be qualified on all equipment and all routes.

It would have been nice if we could have voted on the new reserve system, IDK what will happen now with the merger but it seems anything could happen maybe we will get a new union, maybe one that will let us actually vote on all issues. I believe that is why we have a union.

 

[silverbird007]

Also the preferential bidding system should eliminate the need for so many reserves. Maybe it will push a few more off reserve. Wish we could start it yesterday.

 

[jersey777]

at AA we do 1 month of reserve and hold a line for 3 months, the new hires are going to do 6 days per month of reserve every month until their seniority can hold off reserve. So as of now I'm doing reserve 3 full months per year. i have 15 years and even with the early outs and new hires I don't think I will be off reserve anytime soon. Now with the US merger I will probably never get off unless I fly until I'm 70 (maybe)! I'm hoping that we get a buyout offer again. wasn't eligible for the last one but I will be for the next one. The 6 days per month sounds good to me!

The current hew hires will be on the same system as the rest of us. The 6 or so reserve days per month will not be implemented until PBS is activated. The LBFO is a moot point because by the time PBS is fully in force...we will have an entirely new contract that will be voted on.

Also, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how quickly the reserve seniority will down. With 1500-1800 new hires serving one on one off....the reserve list will plummet at some bases and you will also see a drastic reduction in such historically senior places as DFW, LAX, etc...as people transfer and junior people distribute throughout the system.

And since it will be at least 2 years till we have a merged seniority list and with another early out in the AA bridge term sheet and an early out in the proposed USAir pending contract...I think reserve will be history for most of those current and active flight attendants.

 

[kirkpatrick]

maybe we will get a new union, maybe one that will let us actually vote on all issues. I believe that is why we have a union.

We'll vote on a contract but not with a line item veto. Let's hope that our numbers will enable us to make sure that whatever reserve system the eventual contract has will be some sort of reserve rotation or sharing. The old system of straight reserve until holding a line is a throwback to a different era, when you were off reserve in a few months or a year or two at the most.

MK

 

[kirkpatrick]

Also, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how quickly the reserve seniority will down. With 1500-1800 new hires serving one on one off....the reserve list will plummet at some bases and you will also see a drastic reduction in such historically senior places as DFW, LAX, etc...as people transfer and junior people distribute throughout the system.

I agree. When I was acquired in 2001 reserve only went to two years at LGA. When all those people hit three years and no one had been hired for several years is when reserve suddenly jumped up to six or eight years and eventually even higher.

MK

 

[ContUNITEus]

Thanks for your correction... I thought that the new system for new-hires was a go regardless of what. On the other hand though, going back on your quote:

The LBFO is a moot point because by the time PBS is fully in force...we will have an entirely new contract that will be voted on.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You make negotiating and ratifying a contract sound like an overnight deal, or something that can be achieved in a year with AWA management (To not sound too sarcastic). Let me just remind you that America West's 1999 (in reality 1985 if you get my sarcasm) F/A CBA was amendable and up for negotiations back in 2004. Just saying.... AWA F/As have been waiting for 9 years, while sitting on an abysmal contract that was worth the pay scales of an economy of probably 1985.

AWA and US F/As combined have been waiting for a decent proposal since 2005/6 - that's seven to eight years.


LET'S JUST HOPE THAT DP AND SK LEARNED THEIR LESSON, AND TRY THIS TIME TO DO A COMPLETELY NON-HP WAY OF DOING MERGERS. Indications are there, that it may be possible, since the team obviously learned that they needed to schmooze with labor on a non-owned airline a bit in order to get them to the altar.

But they could also do a 100% reversal on their Good-will-show, now that you all are on the hook.



I agree with whomever posted the comment that everything has to be fought for.

You can be optimistic, yes, and positive, but that is going to get you only so much with DP, SK, and Co..

 

[eolesen]

The current hew hires will be on the same system as the rest of us. The 6 or so reserve days per month will not be implemented until PBS is activated. The LBFO is a moot point because by the time PBS is fully in force...we will have an entirely new contract that will be voted on.

Perhaps, but I the agreement between Parker and APFA is that whatever agreement was in effect would remain in effect and there would't be a do-over. If PBS is in the current agreement, what makes you think that the new company is going to walk away from it? It seems to be a new industry standard...

 

[jimntx]

And since it will be at least 2 years till we have a merged seniority list and with another early out in the AA bridge term sheet and an early out in the proposed USAir pending contract...I think reserve will be history for most of those current and active flight attendants.

To paraphrase an old Jewish saying..."From your fingertips to God's reading glasses."

 

[diamondcutter]

Thanks for your correction... I thought that the new system for new-hires was a go regardless of what. On the other hand though, going back on your quote:




HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You make negotiating and ratifying a contract sound like an overnight deal, or something that can be achieved in a year with AWA management (To not sound too sarcastic). Let me just remind you that America West's 1999 (in reality 1985 if you get my sarcasm) F/A CBA was amendable and up for negotiations back in 2004. Just saying.... AWA F/As have been waiting for 9 years, while sitting on an abysmal contract that was worth the pay scales of an economy of probably 1985.

AWA and US F/As combined have been waiting for a decent proposal since 2005/6 - that's seven to eight years.


LET'S JUST HOPE THAT DP AND SK LEARNED THEIR LESSON, AND TRY THIS TIME TO DO A COMPLETELY NON-HP WAY OF DOING MERGERS. Indications are there, that it may be possible, since the team obviously learned that they needed to schmooze with labor on a non-owned airline a bit in order to get them to the altar.

But they could also do a 100% reversal on their Good-will-show, now that you all are on the hook.



I agree with whomever posted the comment that everything has to be fought for.

You can be optimistic, yes, and positive, but that is going to get you only so much with DP, SK, and Co..

Stated in the agreement . After certification of one airline we will have 60 days to negotiate . Then it goes to arbitration . So it can't be drawn out.

 

[jersey777]

Perhaps, but I the agreement between Parker and APFA is that whatever agreement was in effect would remain in effect and there would't be a do-over. If PBS is in the current agreement, what makes you think that the new company is going to walk away from it? It seems to be a new industry standard...

The bridge term sheet takes effect as soon as we exit bankruptcy and it includes preferential bidding. When it is implemented is a different matter. Then full blown negotiations start...again...and everything is up for grabs and if no agreement is reached in 6 months then both parties have already agreed to binding arbitration. With that said, I believe PBS is here to stay in whatever new contract we negotiate.

 

[jersey777]

Thanks for your correction... I thought that the new system for new-hires was a go regardless of what. On the other hand though, going back on your quote:




HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

You make negotiating and ratifying a contract sound like an overnight deal, or something that can be achieved in a year with AWA management (To not sound too sarcastic). Let me just remind you that America West's 1999 (in reality 1985 if you get my sarcasm) F/A CBA was amendable and up for negotiations back in 2004. Just saying.... AWA F/As have been waiting for 9 years, while sitting on an abysmal contract that was worth the pay scales of an economy of probably 1985.

AWA and US F/As combined have been waiting for a decent proposal since 2005/6 - that's seven to eight years.


LET'S JUST HOPE THAT DP AND SK LEARNED THEIR LESSON, AND TRY THIS TIME TO DO A COMPLETELY NON-HP WAY OF DOING MERGERS. Indications are there, that it may be possible, since the team obviously learned that they needed to schmooze with labor on a non-owned airline a bit in order to get them to the altar.

But they could also do a 100% reversal on their Good-will-show, now that you all are on the hook.



I agree with whomever posted the comment that everything has to be fought for.

You can be optimistic, yes, and positive, but that is going to get you only so much with DP, SK, and Co..

It is not me saying it...it is what has already been agreed upon. Both parties have already agreed to binding arbitration if no agreement is reached after 6 months of negotiations. With the way all airlines negotiations have been going the last few years...that IS an overnight deal.