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Obama Freezes Iranian Government, Central Bank Assets in U.S. Read more on Newsmax.com: Obama Freez

And this is why libertarians do so well in elections. Their beliefs ignore the realities that the rest of us live in.
 
Ron Paul seems to be unable to grasp the reality we live in. He lives in some alternate world. We wouldn't have declared war with Japan because in his view, we deserved it. In his view we wouldn't have help defeat the Nazi's and Europe would have fell to the Third Reich. Then what?

Men have been waging war for centuries and self declared neutral countries were not excluded from being taking over just because they stuck their hand out first.
 
townpete said:
Ron Paul seems to be unable to grasp the reality we live in. He lives in some alternate world. We wouldn't have declared war with Japan because in his view, we deserved it. In his view we wouldn't have help defeat the Nazi's and Europe would have fell to the Third Reich. Then what?

Men have been waging war for centuries and self declared neutral countries were not excluded from being taking over just because they stuck their hand out first.
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Watch for the Ron Paul surprise.
 
Ms Tree said:
And this is why libertarians do so well in elections. Their beliefs ignore the realities that the rest of us live in.
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It is no coincidence that we've had nearly 100 years of Central Banks and nearly 100 years of wars.

We haven't tried a non interventionist foreign policy since before this so no one alive knows if it will work. What we will find out is the same thing that brought every other Empire did. Eventually the empire becomes impossible to support financially and it collapses under its own weight. Like USSR, Great Britain, Romes, Etc etc.

The time to change these policies is now not after we no longer have the money to continue business as usual ad that's the reality of things.
 
SparrowHawk said:
It is no coincidence that we've had nearly 100 years of Central Banks and nearly 100 years of wars.

We haven't tried a non interventionist foreign policy since before this so no one alive knows if it will work. What we will find out is the same thing that brought every other Empire did. Eventually the empire becomes impossible to support financially and it collapses under its own weight. Like USSR, Great Britain, Romes, Etc etc.

The time to change these policies is now not after we no longer have the money to continue business as usual ad that's the reality of things.
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Oh yes, before central banks homo sapiens were a peace loving species that hung out around the campfire singing songs about love and harmony with nature. 🙄
 
SparrowHawk said:
That would be an Israel/Europe problem. As POTUS I'd be more than happy to SELL Iran the goods to rebuild themselves. Give them a good price too. Otherwise they can haul their oil to market (Assuming anyone is left) on camels. We start drilling and building nuke plants here plue perfect the green technology and the whole ME can pound sand. Lord knows they have enough of it.
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In what bizzaro world do you live where you can think nuclear weapons exploding in the ME would just be Israel/Europes problem.
 
777 fixer said:
Countries typically do this sa as to AVOID going to war.
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Everyone dodged the question. IF Iran did to us (Froze Assets) would we view it as an act of War and IMO the answer is a resounding YES! That was all I asked.

We've been empire building and wasting money overseas that is needed here at home. There is a difference between National Defense and using the Military for Geo-Politcal adventurism. The later costs a lot of money and lives. The first one doesn't.

Let's say for arguments sake that prior to freezing assets that Obama had the stones to go before Congress and ask for a Declaration of War against Iran and got it by an overwhelming majority. Doesn't that change the whole dynamics of any negotiations going forward prior to the initiation of any hostilities?

Bush I came close to what I mean. While I was not a huge fan of the intervention in Kuwait. Compare & Contrast that intervention with what's happening now. We gave Iraq a deadline to come to an agreement, They failed, we invaded, 100 hours later we left, No nation building, Just took care of business and left. We had our ducks in a row including what amounted to a Declaration of War via the UN Resolutions. Bush I went before Congress as well, Something the latest two buffoons didn't do.
 
Yes. The US would be pissed. Then again so would Hitler. What's your point? In this case I think the intervention is taking place way too late. The horse left the bard decades ago. The idea of Iran having nukes it quite disconcerting but trying to do something about it when they are nearly at the point of having them is a bit late.

War typically is not declared as a contingency plan. Congress would not vote for war and I see no reason they should given that there are other avenues that can be pursued. The idea of going to war with Iran is very unappealing. They are far better prepared than Afghan and Iraq. The terrain of Iran is far more difficult to conduct land operations on.

Unfortunately this is the new ME that we have to deal with. This reality may involve one in which a crazy man has his finger on the button. They have had chem weapons and not used them, hopefully they will be as smart with the nukes. Bush and Cheney got rid of Iraq for them so it is clear sailing.

Personally I do not even want to contemplate what would happen if a nuke were detonated in the ME. Makes me cringe. Yet another reason why Libertarians are a fringe faction.
 
SparrowHawk said:
Everyone dodged the question. IF Iran did to us (Froze Assets) would we view it as an act of War and IMO the answer is a resounding YES! That was all I asked.
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A resounding yes? Iran stormed our embassy, sovereign US soil, and took our diplomatic staff hostage. That's an act of war yet we did not go to war with them. So I would make the argument that we would not view freezing of assets as an act of war. History would back me up on that.
 
777 fixer said:
A resounding yes? Iran stormed our embassy, sovereign US soil, and took our diplomatic staff hostage. That's an act of war yet we did not go to war with them. So I would make the argument that we would not view freezing of assets as an act of war. History would back me up on that.
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Well just look who was POTUS! The one President that makes Obama look like Jesus Hisself. I can tell you this. If I were the President, I would have consulted with my Diplomats and the Military and weighed the options I would have had no problem going before Congress and asking for a declaration of War or putting troops in harms way.

I'm a strong believer in the Golder Rule and Iran is doing a pretty good job of "Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. We fired the first shot both figuratively and literally with the CIA in 1953 and it's been tit for tat ever since. This is an opportunity for some real diplomacy to diffuse an immediate situation and build for the future. Problem is neither side wants to admit they had a part to play in where we are now. We screwed up in 1953 and Iran screwed up in 1979. To bad it's not sandlot football and when there is a penalty and neither side agrees somebody yells "Do Over" and they replay the down. I don't think we have the diplomats with the balls or the skills to call a "Do Over" and get the Iranians to agree. It's much easier to crank up the war machine.
 
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