NO LGA/DCA for WN

[skyguy25]

Not that only 5 roudtrips fits at all into WN's model of high frequency for the leisure/business traveler, but Airtran has taken over all of ATA's slot rights into LGA and DCA.
Interesting that a side deal with Airtran took place this week with ATA. So once again, LUV is not in the air in the Big Apple. Still the largest market not served.
Airtran is estatic that they have aquired these rights, which i thought would to have gone up for auction or been turned back to the government. Anyone want to shed light on the law regarding LGA? I do know that the laws changed on 1/1/07.
To bad WN didn't get some from US while in BK and sit on them and then get some from ATA, and then some from soandso...hahaha!

 

[jimntx]

I don't think WN wants LGA or DCA landing slots. On any given day--weather or not--the chances of a delay at LGA are high. WN delivers on-time performance most of the time. Why go into an airport where you KNOW that delays are a fact of life? Plus, they would never have been able to acquire enough slots to provide the kind of schedule saturation that WN likes to have.

Same thing with DCA--delay probabilities plus limited availability of slots. Why bother? And, they have a very successful hub/focus city/primary destination/whatever you want to call it at BWI which by WN standards is VERY close by. It would be almost like providing service at both DFW and DAL. (Ask my airline, AA, how successful that is. )

The only case I can think of with WN that approachs a DCA/BWI situation would be when they used to offer service at both IAH and HOU in Houston. IAH service (which was only to DAL) was eliminated after 9/11. They've never seen a need/demand to restore it.

 

[Tanker]

I don't think WN wants LGA or DCA landing slots.

I have heard Gary Kelly tell employees that he wants to have WN serve LGA. Having said that ATA didn't have enough slots or gates so that WN could provide the level of service that they want. As for the delays WN serves PHL and served STL when TWA was there, so they are used to operating at airports with delays and just put a large pad into the flights for those cities that are prone to have delays.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I have heard Gary Kelly tell employees that he wants to have WN serve LGA. Having said that ATA didn't have enough slots or gates so that WN could provide the level of service that they want. As for the delays WN serves PHL and served STL when TWA was there, so they are used to operating at airports with delays and just put a large pad into the flights for those cities that are prone to have delays.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Excellant point 'tanker' on WN/PHL !!

(jimntx..???????)

 

[jimntx]

It's not like we are debating service to Altoona. WN management may be a lot of things, but dumb ain't one of them. They do not need the members of this forum to point out the importance of those two stations.

IMHO, if WN had wanted either LGA or DCA, WN would already be there. WN doesn't need either of those stations. Their presence at either place is more a customer advantage than a WN advantage.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Given the limited number of slots involved, it's pretty obvious that it wouldn't allow WN to run an efficient operation even if they were desperate to serve LGA/DCA. Operating a station with only 2 arrivals/departures a day plus 1 arrival or departure, which 5 LGA slots would allow, just isn't WN's style. Nevermind DCA with 1 slot allowing only 1 arrival or departure a day.

Plus, the slots apparently still belong to ATA. AirTran is just leasing them.

Jim

 

[ngneer]

WN clearly doesn't feel pressured enough to serve NYC that they would change their model and try to run an operation at LGA with 5 slots. But they aren't happy with their operation at ISP either. WN is cutting 6 flights at ISP, so pax are not exactly embracing ISP as an alternative. WN is trying to work with the Town of Islip to market the airport better and possibly get more frequent service to NYC on the Long Island Rail Road. One thing that might happen is simply changing the airport name from Long Island MacArthur Airport to New York MacArthur Airport. It appears to me that WN's strategy for the time being is to try to make ISP more palatable as an alternative rather than to directly serve a NYC airport. Now having said that, tomorrow they'll probably announce service to EWR.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

"Stop the Press's" !!!!!!!!!!

The PANYNJ(Port Authority) just took over operations of Stewart/Newburgh..SWF.

Located 60 miles North of Manhatten(equal distance as NYC/ISP), WN would do VERY WELL(IMHO) there.

 

[swflyer]

"Stop the Press's" !!!!!!!!!!

The PANYNJ(Port Authority) just took over operations of Stewart/Newburgh..SWF.

Located 60 miles North of Manhatten(equal distance as NYC/ISP), WN would do VERY WELL(IMHO) there.

The rumor of SWA serving SWF has been around SWA forever.

Why not, I say.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The rumor of SWA serving SWF has been around SWA forever.

Why not, I say.

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"flyer",

Not sure if your familiar with NYC traffic/hwy's, but unlike the BRUTAL Long Island expressway(to Islip), a fairly resonable "jaunt" up the west side hwy(from Manhatten) thru Yonkers, then up I-87 is a MUCH quicker trip to SWF, plus NO bridges/tunnels.

HPN(white plains) is a perfect example of a successful "just north of the city" airport, with no delays, and full loads.

Both HPN and SWF lie in EXTREMELY affluant NYC suburban counties.

Lot of strict Westchester county rules at HPN, whereas SWF has just been taken over by the NY/NJ port authority, AND they are looking to play "lets make a deal" ($$$) to the airlines.

In my opinion, NO (close in airport) could give WN a better NYC presence than SWF.

Very Important (also), like ISP, SWF HAS rail service from NYC !!!

 

[ngneer]

I think SWF is further than you think. It's well north of Westchester County and on the other side of the Hudson River. It's not in an affluent area; it's pretty rural. There's not much nearby. There's talk of putting a spur on the Port Jervis line to provide rail service to SWF but currently the nearest train station is on the other side of the Hudson River. The only way to get there currently is by car.

For WN, I think ISP is a better choice since there's already almost 3 million people nearby in Suffolk and Nassau counties and the Long Island Rail Road has a stop just outside the airport. ISP is also about 10 miles closer to NYC than SWF. While the Long Island Expressway isn't much fun, I-87 in rush hour is no picnic either.

 

[CynicalResAgent]

My mother used to live in Rockland County NY, near areas like Suffren, Mahwah, Nanuet and Paramus and the area has really grown a lot and is pretty easy to get to NYC. And usually she would fly into LGA or EWR but SWF is much more convenient and the last time I went up there the area seemed pretty affluent to me, a lot of people commute to Manhattan from there it seemed like it took about 30-45 minutes not during peak traffic though. I saw a lot of new developments that I remember being farms 20 years ago. I couldn't believe how much it had changed.

 

[swflyer]

A DOLLAR for the shuttle ride???? Sign me up for a long overnight!!

oops, we don't serve Stewart...... :unsure:


NEWBURGH-
BEACON-
STEWART LINK Leprechaun Bus Line Provides passengers a hassle free and inexpensive alternative mode of transportation over the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge which provides connections between Metro-North's Train Station in Beacon, the NYSDOT's Park & Ride Lots (on RT 17K & on Rt.9D at the Dutchess County Transportation Center next to the Stadium) and Stewart International Airport.

The cost is $1 per boarding, or free for Metro-North UniTicket customers.

For current schedules and route map:
www.leprechaunlines.com or call 800 638 7646

 

[ngneer]

My mother used to live in Rockland County NY, near areas like Suffren, Mahwah, Nanuet and Paramus and the area has really grown a lot and is pretty easy to get to NYC.

OK, but SWF is well north of those areas. Suffern is about equidistant between Newark and SWF, so SWF can certainly draw pax from the Suffern area. But when you get up around Newburgh, where SWF is, the population is still pretty sparse. I usually go past SWF on my way to go skiing in the winter and I can tell you it's a long ride from NYC.

That's interesting news about the bus link, though. The schedule says its a typically a 33 minute bus ride, but it can take as long as an hour if the bus makes stops along the way in Newburgh. Then the train ride to NYC (Grand Central Station) is another 90 minutes.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

ALL points of view, "duly noted"

So, whats WN to do(about greater NYC) ??

Kelly is already on record as saying that WN does want greater NYC business.
Perhaps SFW is NOT the answer, but it's OBVIOUS ISP has certain limitations(Think the L.I.E.) :angry:

Perhaps HPN would be the perfect spot for WN(NYC), but THAT airport has a zillion RESTRICTIONS(and for the record, HPN is in THE MOST affluant area, in the whole country) (Think GREENWICH Connecticut)