New Ramp Procedures

[supercruiser]

It also makes you wonder how much deadheading crew values customers.

It was management's request to do it this way specifically. Previously, most crewmembers took their own bags back and forth, until this new directive came out.

Someone in management is under the misguided impression that if crewmembers put all their bags in the cabin, it will somehow give the ramp personnel more time to handle customer bags, and will improve the dismal baggage statistics. (I mean how many crew bags do they handle in a given day, .0000001% of total bags handled?) Of course they don't understand that they are now causing the ramp people to now deal with MORE gate checked customer bags, because more crewmember bags are in the overhead bins. I know it seems clueless, but that's the supposed reason.

 

[Dog Wonder]

It was management's request to do it this way specifically. Previously, most crewmembers took their own bags back and forth, until this new directive came out.

Makes you wonder how much management values customers.

 

[FWAAA]

If an airplane has two wings, wouldn't you want two wing walkers? If you only have one wing walker, on which of the two wings do they focus their attention?

Me? I want at least two alert individuals paying close attention to both wings of a $100 million+ airplane loaded with tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of pounds of fuel and up to 300 lives as the airplane is being pushed backwards into an alley amidst lots of traffic.

But that's just me.

Why the hell would anyone do it with only ONE?

 

[superG]

[

Meanwhile on the ramp:

25+ aircraft all sitting (burning lots of Jet A) an extra 20 minutes to get to a gate because PHL is understaffed and doesn't have 2 wingwalkers per gate! Now that 40 minute turn is shot.
[/quote]
DL/NW been doing this for years....

 

[hp_fa]

Because the "Benchmark" for operational effiency uses one!

Because it's more cost effective to use one! Especially in PHL where staffing is an issue.

Because of the above situation in PHL using 2 may lower DOT stats costing workers their $50 bonus.

Operation efficency is not the same as prudent and they sometimes conflict. The cost of a preventable accident and the costs that any injuries to passengers and crew far outweigh the cost of a $9.00 (or so) per hour wing walker.

 

[Kev3188]

DL/NW been doing this for years....

NW uses one on both arrival and departure....

If you only have one wing walker, on which of the two wings do they focus their attention?

You stand far enough back that you can see both wings, and that in turn, the pushback driver can see you.

 

[USCREW]

Supposed to be only for First Class, But it is an easy out for Gate Agents and Flight Attendants to put the Valet tag on anything that a customer wants.

The customer is taken care of (a good thing). But it is not procedure to take care of customers not flying First Class.

It is the new West procedure imposed on East concerning musical instruments. Not just first class.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If an airplane has two wings, wouldn't you want two wing walkers? If you only have one wing walker, on which of the two wings do they focus their attention?

Me? I want at least two alert individuals paying close attention to both wings of a $100 million+ airplane loaded with tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of pounds of fuel and up to 300 lives as the airplane is being pushed backwards into an alley amidst lots of traffic.

But that's just me.

Why the hell would anyone do it with only ONE?

Operation efficency is not the same as prudent and they sometimes conflict. The cost of a preventable accident and the costs that any injuries to passengers and crew far outweigh the cost of a $9.00 (or so) per hour wing walker.

Okay. Let's get real here.

It's almost inconceivable that anyone would be injured in the unlikely event of a push-back incident. The tug is going about 5 or 6 MPH, and it's not like there would be any abrupt "crashes." We have had these minor fender-benders on occasion and it's expensive and time-consuming to bend a piece of airplane in this way, but not injurious to passengers and crews. To hear you guys talk one would think that this type of incident would result in an emergency evacuation or flaming wreckage.

And I would wager that there is nearly equal chance that pushback incidents will happen again with two wing walkers. Or three. Or a dozen.

In fact, in PIT and some other stations, we used single-man pushbacks for years with no apparent safety compromise.

The two wing walker requirement is one of those "that's the way we've always done it at AWA" so it must be best. We from the Winston-Salem-based carrier saw that often in gthe late 80's. It doesn't have to make sense; it's just the way we do it here.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Okay. Let's get real here.

It's almost inconceivable that anyone would be injured in the unlikely event of a push-back incident. The tug is going about 5 or 6 MPH, and it's not like there would be any abrupt "crashes." We have had these minor fender-benders on occasion and it's expensive and time-consuming to bend a piece of airplane in this way, but not injurious to passengers and crews. To hear you guys talk one would think that this type of incident would result in an emergency evacuation or flaming wreckage.

And I would wager that there is nearly equal chance that pushback incidents will happen again with two wing walkers. Or three. Or a dozen.

In fact, in PIT and some other stations, we used single-man pushbacks for years with no apparent safety compromise.

The two wing walker requirement is one of those "that's the way we've always done it at AWA" so it must be best. We from the Winston-Salem-based carrier saw that often in gthe late 80's. It doesn't have to make sense; it's just the way we do it here.

AWA field stations were required to have two wing-walkers as "that is the way PHX does it". The PHX ramp and gates are situated so that there is very little clearance between wingtips and there is much ground traffic. After several bumparoos with catering trucks, other aircraft, and other vehicles, the City of Phoenix determined that AWA needed two wingwalkers. It was put in the GOM and, therefore, all stations had to comply with that directive. Thanks to the City of Phoenix; the city who brings you drugs, undocumented workers, and 3 serial killers at the same time. And that is the history of the two-person wing-walk.

Okay. Let's get real here.

It's almost inconceivable that anyone would be injured in the unlikely event of a push-back incident. The tug is going about 5 or 6 MPH, and it's not like there would be any abrupt "crashes." We have had these minor fender-benders on occasion and it's expensive and time-consuming to bend a piece of airplane in this way, but not injurious to passengers and crews. To hear you guys talk one would think that this type of incident would result in an emergency evacuation or flaming wreckage.

We have had many injuries in PHX during pushback. One year had two wing-walkers end up getting their leg crushed under 757 tires resulting in amputation. There have been many wing-walkers run over by ground vehicles. Bumping aircraft can be the least of a wing-walkers worries.

 

[Awa Contract]

you left out two planes being pushed into the terminal

 

[barbeetantrums]

you left out two planes being pushed into the terminal

Yeah. I was there for that. Young lady driving the tug was promoted to supervisor.

 

[sharktooth]

....the City of Phoenix determined that AWA needed two wingwalkers. It was put in the GOM and, therefore, all stations had to comply with that directive.

That is not an explanation.

Why was that procedure placed in the "GOM" ( Ground Operations Manual)? Is the procedure not local to PHX? Who was responsible for such an administrative error?

 

[crushed]

You think that's a step backward.......
Wait until we switch to HP's weight and balance system.
The ramp figures the flap settings and the flight deck must have a hard copy of the weight and balance before the jetway is pulled.
And you think nothing in Philly leaves on-time now!

 

[diogenes]

If I were pushing in PHL or PHX, I'd want two walkers.

OTOH, in MYR or CHS? Not so much.

We pushed with one wingwalker (the way the tug was set up {an important consideration} I could watch the left side easily) and a tug driver. The walker disconnected the towbar ( a pisser to do by yourself when the bar is in a bind) and marshalled.

US generally let a 'one size fits all' mentality override good judgement.

 

[luvn737s]

You think that's a step backward.......
Wait until we switch to HP's weight and balance system.
The ramp figures the flap settings and the flight deck must have a hard copy of the weight and balance before the jetway is pulled.
And you think nothing in Philly leaves on-time now!

Huh? You better go back and re-read the cave drawings on that one.