I''ve been reading AA is planning on cutting back business routes from San Jose, Boston, and Austin in favour of adding new Mexican routes. They have already been adding quite a few Mexican routes lately, but what else can be in store? I would love to see Miami-Cozumel come back. And they could do really well with Miami-Merida (Merida is where something like nearlu 80% of Miami''s Mexican po****tion comes from; AeroMexico flies the route right now) and Miami-Acapulco. Maybe even opening up some JFK-Mexico routes like JFK-San Jose del Cabos? We already have O''Hare-Puerto Vallarta and Boston-Cancun coming up this winter.
New Mexico Routes?
- Thread starter MAH4546
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![3.gif] [BR][BR]Got me...they bleeped my instance of p-u-l-a too. Weird. As far as I know, it's just a city in Croatia.[BR]](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BBR%5D----------------%5B%2FBLOCKQUOTE%5D%5BBR%5D%5BBR%5DHey%2C+watch+your+mouth%2C+you+%2A%2A%2A%2A%21%5BBR%5D%5BIMG+src%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F3.gif%5D+%5BBR%5D%5BBR%5DGot+me...they+bleeped+my+instance+of+p-u-l-a+too.++Weird.++As+far+as+I+know%2C+it%27s+just+a+city+in+Croatia.%5BBR%5D&hash=0bf2f458fe5417f59ee6ce7072af67af)
I have always wondered how MIA-CZM could not be successful. CO does IAH-CZM sometimes 3X daily on Sats in the winter with 739s! AA tried MIA-CZM for about 2 months two separate times a few years back.
IMHO, there is no way whatsoever that a 1x daily AT7 on MIA-CZM(Its only 530 miles, far less then some other ATR routes and a 738 on Sat/Sun, wouldn't be cash +.
IMHO, there is no way whatsoever that a 1x daily AT7 on MIA-CZM(Its only 530 miles, far less then some other ATR routes and a 738 on Sat/Sun, wouldn't be cash +.
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- #5
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On 11/9/2002 1:07:13 AM FlyAA777 wrote:
I have always wondered how MIA-CZM could not be successful. CO does IAH-CZM sometimes 3X daily on Sats in the winter with 739s! AA tried MIA-CZM for about 2 months two separate times a few years back.
IMHO, there is no way whatsoever that a 1x daily AT7 on MIA-CZM(Its only 530 miles, far less then some other ATR routes and a 738 on Sat/Sun, wouldn't be cash +.
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Wow, MIA-CZM is that short? I agree with you, I see no reason why it can't work. Plus, look at USAirways happily filling up A320s (or maybe it's A319s) daily between Charlotte and Cozumel.
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On 11/9/2002 1:07:13 AM FlyAA777 wrote:
I have always wondered how MIA-CZM could not be successful. CO does IAH-CZM sometimes 3X daily on Sats in the winter with 739s! AA tried MIA-CZM for about 2 months two separate times a few years back.
IMHO, there is no way whatsoever that a 1x daily AT7 on MIA-CZM(Its only 530 miles, far less then some other ATR routes and a 738 on Sat/Sun, wouldn't be cash +.
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Wow, MIA-CZM is that short? I agree with you, I see no reason why it can't work. Plus, look at USAirways happily filling up A320s (or maybe it's A319s) daily between Charlotte and Cozumel.
There are several Mexican destinations that could certainly be profitable on a seasonal basis.
My ideas:
DFW-ZIH(Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo) 6,7 only for Nov-Apr.
MIA-CZM
MIA-ACA
LAX-MEX
DFW-MZT(Mazatlan)come on, if Frontier can do it...
And of course, I'm waiting to hear what will be new on the Atlantic this summer...
AMS, ATH(Year round-Olympic is dropping long-haul!),JFK-FCO,SVO,JFK-LIS(757)
Hopefully the 2-class 767s will reap rewards for the company...
My ideas:
DFW-ZIH(Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo) 6,7 only for Nov-Apr.
MIA-CZM
MIA-ACA
LAX-MEX
DFW-MZT(Mazatlan)come on, if Frontier can do it...
And of course, I'm waiting to hear what will be new on the Atlantic this summer...
AMS, ATH(Year round-Olympic is dropping long-haul!),JFK-FCO,SVO,JFK-LIS(757)
Hopefully the 2-class 767s will reap rewards for the company...
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #8
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On 11/10/2002 1:58:23 AM FlyAA777 wrote:
There are several Mexican destinations that could certainly be profitable on a seasonal basis.
My ideas:
DFW-ZIH(Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo) 6,7 only for Nov-Apr.
MIA-CZM
MIA-ACA
LAX-MEX
DFW-MZT(Mazatlan)come on, if Frontier can do it...
And of course, I'm waiting to hear what will be new on the Atlantic this summer...
AMS, ATH(Year round-Olympic is dropping long-haul!),JFK-FCO,SVO,JFK-LIS(757)
Hopefully the 2-class 767s will reap rewards for the company...
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Olympic is not dropping long-haul. It was a rumour, though, but they aren't. They are just dropping ATH-BKK-SYD-MEL, which was acutally dropped at the end of October.
AA also cannot fly LAX-MEX. Only two US carriers and two Mexican carriers can fly each US-Mexico routes, and DL and UA already fly LAX-MEX.
As for the Euro routes, I would love to see ATH and SVO, but from ORD where they would be the only ones in the market. LIS too, but from MIA. And AMS from DFW. I would also love MIA-BCN and MIA-FRA.
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On 11/10/2002 1:58:23 AM FlyAA777 wrote:
There are several Mexican destinations that could certainly be profitable on a seasonal basis.
My ideas:
DFW-ZIH(Ixtapa/Zihuatenejo) 6,7 only for Nov-Apr.
MIA-CZM
MIA-ACA
LAX-MEX
DFW-MZT(Mazatlan)come on, if Frontier can do it...
And of course, I'm waiting to hear what will be new on the Atlantic this summer...
AMS, ATH(Year round-Olympic is dropping long-haul!),JFK-FCO,SVO,JFK-LIS(757)
Hopefully the 2-class 767s will reap rewards for the company...
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[/blockquote]
Olympic is not dropping long-haul. It was a rumour, though, but they aren't. They are just dropping ATH-BKK-SYD-MEL, which was acutally dropped at the end of October.
AA also cannot fly LAX-MEX. Only two US carriers and two Mexican carriers can fly each US-Mexico routes, and DL and UA already fly LAX-MEX.
As for the Euro routes, I would love to see ATH and SVO, but from ORD where they would be the only ones in the market. LIS too, but from MIA. And AMS from DFW. I would also love MIA-BCN and MIA-FRA.
AA flew MIA-FRA a few years ago. DAL did it too in the early 90's. I think Miami- Manchester,UK would be a great 767 route. All those cold Brits come to the Caribean in the winter and we go to the UK in the summer. If Manchester works from ORD, JFK, ATL and others why not Miami. Miami-Barcelona might work but it really needs to be from a hub. AA servcie to Europe is anc****d at ORD and now with the TWA buy and new terminal at JFK. MIA will have service to a select few European cities but mainly its about Latin America.
Now if AA were to fly the mighty 777, taking advantage of all the range the bird has to offer, Miami- JNB-CPT- Miami is what I nominate for the next big route. Since JNB is on a mountain, the return nonstop trip is not possible from JNB, thus CPT. When SAA flee the route(they moved to ATL to be with DAL) they went Miami-Cpt-JNB-Cpt-Miami. Africa, given MIA's southeastern geographic location, is really the next big pie Miami should try to crack. What few airlines fly from Africa to the USA, kits usually JFK. Can you see SAA(returning) and Royal Air Maroc at MIA.
Now if AA were to fly the mighty 777, taking advantage of all the range the bird has to offer, Miami- JNB-CPT- Miami is what I nominate for the next big route. Since JNB is on a mountain, the return nonstop trip is not possible from JNB, thus CPT. When SAA flee the route(they moved to ATL to be with DAL) they went Miami-Cpt-JNB-Cpt-Miami. Africa, given MIA's southeastern geographic location, is really the next big pie Miami should try to crack. What few airlines fly from Africa to the USA, kits usually JFK. Can you see SAA(returning) and Royal Air Maroc at MIA.
As far as Olympic dropping longhaul, I believe they are dropping Far East service because of the incredibly high crew costs(due to length of the trip and resulting overnights).
If they are able to ditch the two A340s, lets see how they find operating a 2 a/c long haul fleet. If they can't sell them, lets see how they find operating 2 long haul a/c on a schedule that only needs 2 a/c.
4 A340's for ATH-JFK-YYZ over the winter season? They'll loose more $ than AA did last quarter!
I predict a complete longhaul shutdown over the winter. Hopefully, AA can be the first to jump in, and offer daily service May-Oct, and reduced svc.(4 or 5 times/week)Oct-Apr.
Regardless, their highest cost is apparently crewing. For some reason...not sure which, Greek Law, Unions, or whatever, they can't cut their staff.
I've heard that they have something like 4 or 5 times as many employees per a/c as a U.S. airline.
As far as the other ideas go...I agree completely.
MIA-BCN should have lots of feed on both ends! MIA-BCN-TLV is much more direct than MIA-JFK-TLV, and allows pax to take a break in the middle of a relatively long journey.
DFW-AMS would have better and easier connections than ORD or LAX from many west coast and western cities such as SLC, PHX, LAS, SAT, SAN, SEA, PDX, etc...
MIA-CPT/JNB
MIA-HEL!
MIA-SNN/DUB
If they are able to ditch the two A340s, lets see how they find operating a 2 a/c long haul fleet. If they can't sell them, lets see how they find operating 2 long haul a/c on a schedule that only needs 2 a/c.
4 A340's for ATH-JFK-YYZ over the winter season? They'll loose more $ than AA did last quarter!
I predict a complete longhaul shutdown over the winter. Hopefully, AA can be the first to jump in, and offer daily service May-Oct, and reduced svc.(4 or 5 times/week)Oct-Apr.
Regardless, their highest cost is apparently crewing. For some reason...not sure which, Greek Law, Unions, or whatever, they can't cut their staff.
I've heard that they have something like 4 or 5 times as many employees per a/c as a U.S. airline.
As far as the other ideas go...I agree completely.
MIA-BCN should have lots of feed on both ends! MIA-BCN-TLV is much more direct than MIA-JFK-TLV, and allows pax to take a break in the middle of a relatively long journey.
DFW-AMS would have better and easier connections than ORD or LAX from many west coast and western cities such as SLC, PHX, LAS, SAT, SAN, SEA, PDX, etc...
MIA-CPT/JNB
MIA-HEL!
MIA-SNN/DUB
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #11
[blockquote]
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On 11/10/2002 10:30:55 AM JFK777 wrote:
AA flew MIA-FRA a few years ago. DAL did it too in the early 90's. I think Miami- Manchester,UK would be a great 767 route. All those cold Brits come to the Caribean in the winter and we go to the UK in the summer. If Manchester works from ORD, JFK, ATL and others why not Miami. Miami-Barcelona might work but it really needs to be from a hub. AA servcie to Europe is anc****d at ORD and now with the TWA buy and new terminal at JFK. MIA will have service to a select few European cities but mainly its about Latin America.
Now if AA were to fly the mighty 777, taking advantage of all the range the bird has to offer, Miami- JNB-CPT- Miami is what I nominate for the next big route. Since JNB is on a mountain, the return nonstop trip is not possible from JNB, thus CPT. When SAA flee the route(they moved to ATL to be with DAL) they went Miami-Cpt-JNB-Cpt-Miami. Africa, given MIA's southeastern geographic location, is really the next big pie Miami should try to crack. What few airlines fly from Africa to the USA, kits usually JFK. Can you see SAA(returning) and Royal Air Maroc at MIA.
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AA did fly MIA-FRA a while back, but found trouble getting the high-yielding passengers that Lufthansa did. DL dropped MIA-FRA when they closed up thier FRA hub that they purchased from PanAm. Two-class planes bring a lot of profit potential to MIA-FRA.
MIA-MAN could work very well, yes.
BCN is a major hub for Iberia. In fact, BCN is thier main hub for some of the mediteranean destinations like ATH and TLV. Plus they are pretty underserved to the US. MIA provides good Latin American connections with both AA and IB.
As for Africa, MIA is working really hard to lure African carriers. They think the US-Africa market is going to grow a lot during the 2000s, and they want to capitalize on thier geography to become the prime US-Africa hub. Miami's geographic position as is makes it one of the centres for African business in the US, second only to New York City. Priorty for MIA officals is getting flights to Cape Town, Johananesburg, Dakar (Miami's largest African diasporas come from South Africa and Senagal), and Lagos. I doubt AA themselves would be interested in flying those services, even though South Africa provides great profit potential.
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On 11/10/2002 10:30:55 AM JFK777 wrote:
AA flew MIA-FRA a few years ago. DAL did it too in the early 90's. I think Miami- Manchester,UK would be a great 767 route. All those cold Brits come to the Caribean in the winter and we go to the UK in the summer. If Manchester works from ORD, JFK, ATL and others why not Miami. Miami-Barcelona might work but it really needs to be from a hub. AA servcie to Europe is anc****d at ORD and now with the TWA buy and new terminal at JFK. MIA will have service to a select few European cities but mainly its about Latin America.
Now if AA were to fly the mighty 777, taking advantage of all the range the bird has to offer, Miami- JNB-CPT- Miami is what I nominate for the next big route. Since JNB is on a mountain, the return nonstop trip is not possible from JNB, thus CPT. When SAA flee the route(they moved to ATL to be with DAL) they went Miami-Cpt-JNB-Cpt-Miami. Africa, given MIA's southeastern geographic location, is really the next big pie Miami should try to crack. What few airlines fly from Africa to the USA, kits usually JFK. Can you see SAA(returning) and Royal Air Maroc at MIA.
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[/blockquote]
AA did fly MIA-FRA a while back, but found trouble getting the high-yielding passengers that Lufthansa did. DL dropped MIA-FRA when they closed up thier FRA hub that they purchased from PanAm. Two-class planes bring a lot of profit potential to MIA-FRA.
MIA-MAN could work very well, yes.
BCN is a major hub for Iberia. In fact, BCN is thier main hub for some of the mediteranean destinations like ATH and TLV. Plus they are pretty underserved to the US. MIA provides good Latin American connections with both AA and IB.
As for Africa, MIA is working really hard to lure African carriers. They think the US-Africa market is going to grow a lot during the 2000s, and they want to capitalize on thier geography to become the prime US-Africa hub. Miami's geographic position as is makes it one of the centres for African business in the US, second only to New York City. Priorty for MIA officals is getting flights to Cape Town, Johananesburg, Dakar (Miami's largest African diasporas come from South Africa and Senagal), and Lagos. I doubt AA themselves would be interested in flying those services, even though South Africa provides great profit potential.
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On 11/10/2002 1:23:34 PM DFWCC wrote:
Heard by way of he said, she said bec they know type rumor. AA will cut back on some smaller rtes against peanut carriers and try and build up hi $$ intl rtes.
We'll see.
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I too heard the same rumor, and also heard it from some of the big dogs at AA. In order for the airline to compete with the LCC's, AA must concentrate on their international service. Particuliarly, those in Europe and Asia. Hong Kong and Shanghai were definite destinations mentioned at this meeting. Also, a brief mention of AMS. It kind of only makes since in this ever changing world. The question though is how does AA come up with the cash to open these new routes? This remains to be seen.
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On 11/10/2002 1:23:34 PM DFWCC wrote:
Heard by way of he said, she said bec they know type rumor. AA will cut back on some smaller rtes against peanut carriers and try and build up hi $$ intl rtes.
We'll see.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I too heard the same rumor, and also heard it from some of the big dogs at AA. In order for the airline to compete with the LCC's, AA must concentrate on their international service. Particuliarly, those in Europe and Asia. Hong Kong and Shanghai were definite destinations mentioned at this meeting. Also, a brief mention of AMS. It kind of only makes since in this ever changing world. The question though is how does AA come up with the cash to open these new routes? This remains to be seen.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #14
[blockquote]
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On 11/10/2002 1:09:16 PM FlyAA777 wrote:
As far as Olympic dropping longhaul, I believe they are dropping Far East service because of the incredibly high crew costs(due to length of the trip and resulting overnights).
If they are able to ditch the two A340s, lets see how they find operating a 2 a/c long haul fleet. If they can't sell them, lets see how they find operating 2 long haul a/c on a schedule that only needs 2 a/c.
4 A340's for ATH-JFK-YYZ over the winter season? They'll loose more $ than AA did last quarter!
I predict a complete longhaul shutdown over the winter. Hopefully, AA can be the first to jump in, and offer daily service May-Oct, and reduced svc.(4 or 5 times/week)Oct-Apr.
Regardless, their highest cost is apparently crewing. For some reason...not sure which, Greek Law, Unions, or whatever, they can't cut their staff.
I've heard that they have something like 4 or 5 times as many employees per a/c as a U.S. airline.
As far as the other ideas go...I agree completely.
MIA-BCN should have lots of feed on both ends! MIA-BCN-TLV is much more direct than MIA-JFK-TLV, and allows pax to take a break in the middle of a relatively long journey.
DFW-AMS would have better and easier connections than ORD or LAX from many west coast and western cities such as SLC, PHX, LAS, SAT, SAN, SEA, PDX, etc...
MIA-CPT/JNB
MIA-HEL!
MIA-SNN/DUB
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MIA-HEL would work very well. Miami's Finnish po****tion is 2nd largest in North America, and it is the #1 or #2 destination for Finnish tourist to the US. Finnair used to fly to MIA 2x a week during the 1990s. I would not be surprised to see them return 3-4x a week with AA codeshare.
MIA-SNN/DUB could also work very well. The Irish are wealthy, especially recently, and, as with the Finnish, they love Miami. Though any MIA-Ireland service would be operated by Aer Lingus, and they have some problems to work out before expanding long-haul, though they are returning to Baltimore this spring.
Olympic's long-haul network is not just JFK and Toronto. Also Johannesburg and Montreal remain. Still nothing like they used to have, though...Boston, Chicago, Tokyo, etc.
Also, once the South American economies recover (and some experts are staying that it the turbulance will not last that long), I think it is about time Belo Horizonte, Montevideo, and Asuncion go non-stop.
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On 11/10/2002 1:09:16 PM FlyAA777 wrote:
As far as Olympic dropping longhaul, I believe they are dropping Far East service because of the incredibly high crew costs(due to length of the trip and resulting overnights).
If they are able to ditch the two A340s, lets see how they find operating a 2 a/c long haul fleet. If they can't sell them, lets see how they find operating 2 long haul a/c on a schedule that only needs 2 a/c.
4 A340's for ATH-JFK-YYZ over the winter season? They'll loose more $ than AA did last quarter!
I predict a complete longhaul shutdown over the winter. Hopefully, AA can be the first to jump in, and offer daily service May-Oct, and reduced svc.(4 or 5 times/week)Oct-Apr.
Regardless, their highest cost is apparently crewing. For some reason...not sure which, Greek Law, Unions, or whatever, they can't cut their staff.
I've heard that they have something like 4 or 5 times as many employees per a/c as a U.S. airline.
As far as the other ideas go...I agree completely.
MIA-BCN should have lots of feed on both ends! MIA-BCN-TLV is much more direct than MIA-JFK-TLV, and allows pax to take a break in the middle of a relatively long journey.
DFW-AMS would have better and easier connections than ORD or LAX from many west coast and western cities such as SLC, PHX, LAS, SAT, SAN, SEA, PDX, etc...
MIA-CPT/JNB
MIA-HEL!
MIA-SNN/DUB
----------------
[/blockquote]
MIA-HEL would work very well. Miami's Finnish po****tion is 2nd largest in North America, and it is the #1 or #2 destination for Finnish tourist to the US. Finnair used to fly to MIA 2x a week during the 1990s. I would not be surprised to see them return 3-4x a week with AA codeshare.
MIA-SNN/DUB could also work very well. The Irish are wealthy, especially recently, and, as with the Finnish, they love Miami. Though any MIA-Ireland service would be operated by Aer Lingus, and they have some problems to work out before expanding long-haul, though they are returning to Baltimore this spring.
Olympic's long-haul network is not just JFK and Toronto. Also Johannesburg and Montreal remain. Still nothing like they used to have, though...Boston, Chicago, Tokyo, etc.
Also, once the South American economies recover (and some experts are staying that it the turbulance will not last that long), I think it is about time Belo Horizonte, Montevideo, and Asuncion go non-stop.
verhalen2003
Member
- Aug 20, 2002
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It's great if AA wants to expand international service, but they had better be very careful about cutting more routes from SJC. If they take apart such West Coast routes as they still have left, they put their loyal West Coast customers at risk. Then there will be less people to fill up all those international flights from DFW, MIA, etc..
I haven't jumped ship from my AA loyalty yet, but if they keep making it harder and harder to be loyal, then what choice will I have ?
I haven't jumped ship from my AA loyalty yet, but if they keep making it harder and harder to be loyal, then what choice will I have ?
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