More Jobs Cut in MSP

[tech2101]

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Richard Anderson, IIRC, was not at NW when during the AMFA episode which did more to decimate airline maintenance in the midwest than any other action.

Anderson was the architect. Steenland the implementer. Anderson was schooled under Larenzo.

What I posted was information from someone who works in those hangars. That information will not be posted in a financial statement...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Anderson was the architect. Steenland the implementer. Anderson was schooled under Larenzo.

What I posted was information from someone who works in those hangars. That information will not be posted in a financial statement...

then Anderson was smart enough to get out and not get the blood on his hands or paid Steenland enough to stick around and be the blood-letter.
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Yes, I know that moving work around by maintenance doesn't make the cut of most news outlets... but whether DL has mechanics in 3 hangars at MSP and some sort of associated work shouldn't be hard to find.

 

[Kev3188]

Don't forget Andy Roberts, Tech...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Don't forget Andy Roberts...

who was he and how does he play into this theory?

 

[Dalmd88#2]

There is no rumor floating around ATL that the MD88/90 line is coming back from MSP. There simply is no place to put it. One 88 is currently being done in Bay 4 ATL, but it is only there because there was some space in the 757 lines. That space is now gone due to problems with a 757 on the other line. I heard the 757 lines are now behind a few days.

 

[topDawg]

you realize also that DL has offered voluntary packages not only in each one of these reductions but in many others.
No one is doubting that DL has cut jobs... every network airline in the western world has.
What has made DL different from other airlines is that they have obtained more job cuts through voluntary programs than any other airline.
The largest voluntary package yielded nearly 5000 takers in the 2004-5 cuts you noted.
Even without any intent to cut jobs this year, DL obtained 2000 takers for voluntary packages.
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Let us know if you know of any other airline that extended offers or obtained as many voluntary reductions as DL.

As for your logic that because DL cut jobs in the past, they will under the AeroMexico maintenance agreement, DL mgmt has noted that the MRO will give DL greater ability to bid for full maintenance services by allowing MX to focus on airframe overhauls w/ DL focusing on engine and component maintenance.
There is no reason to think that the AM agreement will result in further job cuts because AM doesn't have the same capabilities that DL has and there is no evidence that the agreement includes transferring DL's capabilities to them.
And again it also will likely lead to DL bringing back some of its Asian based overhauls to the Americas, where DL is the largest MRO.
You also realize that DL received contracts to overhaul at least half of Gol's engines that power its 737NG fleet, which I believe is the largest in Latin America.
Check out www.DeltaTechOps.com DL's capabilities, numbers of clients, along with the awards it has received for the work it does.
The cuts DL made in maintenance occurred during the BK phase and included getting rid of the facilities that support airframe overhauls that DL has chosen not to do any longer.

The AM-DL maintenance partnership - which involves an investment by DL in the joint MRO - positions DL to grow its MRO business.
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If there are further job cuts, we can discuss them but none have been announced.

I can name a few things the AM JV could take form us.
1) the 3rd party MRO work(my bet is the LAN HMVs head south as soon as the widebody building is done)
2) Delta PSVs.
3) Future airframe growth.

Sounds like roses for the engine guys, oh wait they are out of room too.

At best, any chance of growth for domestic growth is gone. At worst...... They could be giving up space in Atlanta. Yeah sounds good to a guy with his a** close to meat grinder. :angry:

but its always good to you....outside looking in types. 😉
PS i like how you say "And again it also will likely lead to DL bringing back some of its Asian based overhauls to the Americas, where DL is the largest MRO." Want to explain why it better to Delta AMTs if it done in North America vs China? I guess I should be happy that its going to Mexico, I mean at least its closer to Atlanta... :angry:

 

[topDawg]

the hangars aren't marked, but you might find Google Earth helpful....
BTW, the current Google Earth pics might be "keepers"... you can practically summarize the fleet repaint status from the pics.
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And, yes, the expectation is that DL will EXPAND its MRO work in MSP.....
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As expected and spoken about from the earliest days of the merger, there will be continued movement of the PMNW and PMDL fleets with corresponding movements of crews. Maintenance support for the type of aircraft that remain in MSP will likely be expanded.
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Someone help me but is Sun Country a DL Tech Ops customer?

Right, Dallas, Chicago, Los Angeles and Tampa will all grow too. 🙄 (moral of the story kids, dumping hangar bays don't = growth. I don't care what Tony says, Mexico will get the growth.)

and I believe we do CFM-56 overhauls for SY.

 

[Airlinelifer]

I can name a few things the AM JV could take form us.
1) the 3rd party MRO work(my bet is the LAN HMVs head south as soon as the widebody building is done)
2) Delta PSVs.
3) Future airframe growth.

Sounds like roses for the engine guys, oh wait they are out of room too.

At best, any chance of growth for domestic growth is gone. At worst...... They could be giving up space in Atlanta. Yeah sounds good to a guy with his a** close to meat grinder. :angry:

but its always good to you....outside looking in types. 😉
PS i like how you say "And again it also will likely lead to DL bringing back some of its Asian based overhauls to the Americas, where DL is the largest MRO." Want to explain why it better to Delta AMTs if it done in North America vs China? I guess I should be happy that its going to Mexico, I mean at least its closer to Atlanta... :angry:

Whatever happened to the NWA Airbus Hanger that was built in Duluth MN, and did NWA ever build an engine overhaul complex in Hibbing MN?

 

[eolesen]

DLH is vacant. Don't recall ever hearing of anything in HIB other than the call center.

 

[Kev3188]

Correct...

 

[tech2101]

From an honorable at DL.

I read a official Delta internal memo a few months ago in regard to consolidation with their old DC-9 fleet and MSP Maintenance station. They do have a plan to rip down B side hangers 5 and 6.There was also a report from another honorable from the inside at MSP C World that hangers 1,2 and 3 will no longer be needed by Delta since the DC-9 fleet is going away. MAC will be looking for someone to lease these hangers-if that is true?

I wonder if anyone on this board can confirm any of this?

 

[tech2101]

Whatever happened to the NWA Airbus Hanger that was built in Duluth MN, and did NWA ever build an engine overhaul complex in Hibbing MN?

AAR was looking at moving in there. See the article below. I don't know if they have moved on any of their plan at this time.

Duluth is hoping to put its best face forward next week when an Illinois aircraft service company visits to check out the region's workforce as it searches for a new maintenance base.

Up to 250 jobs are on the table should AAR Aircraft Services select Duluth for its next facility.

Working in Duluth's favor is a currently vacant passenger-jet-ready hangar that was built in the mid-1990s as a place for Northwest Airlines to service its fleet of narrow-body Airbus aircrafts.

But AAR is looking at "a handful" of potential sites for expansion and a recent networking fair in Salina, Kan., drew several hundred potential workers, many with experience at airplane maker Hawker Beechcraft, which is closing its operation there.

In addition, AAR's four U.S. maintenance shops are nonunion, which could be an issue in the historically union-strong northeast corner of Minnesota.

Link to full article.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I would like to know the status of the MSP hangars as well... I had heard that DL did give up 3 hangars - not sure which ones in exchange for 3 other ones.

Obviously the AM maintenance JV presents unknowns and there is clearly reason for distrust when it comes to maintenance among the network carriers... but
DL has done a far better job than the rest of the industry in using its own maintenance capabilities to make money through an aggressive MRO business. While we all would like to believe any American can competitively do any job with anyone else in the world, the simple fact is that the cost of labor is low enough in other parts of the world such that they can do work which Americans cannot do.
I had to make the dreaded call to tech support for my computer today. To my surprise the people on the other end - obviously in another country speaking English with an accent - although it was easily understandable - quickly solved the problem. Or at least told me my computer had serious enough issues that I had to make decisions based on information they provided. Not happy with the problem but was happy with the service that was provided - and I know full well that if that call was handled in the US, it would have cost 10 times what the mfr of my computer would have paid US workers.
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That said, I have a lot stronger view of protecting American jobs than alot of people here might think.
I believe that a company needs to put forth an ENORMOUS amount of effort and needs to prove without a shadow of a doubt that they cannot continue to hire American workers to do the job they are considering for outsourcing.
I also believe that when a business is failing, there is a whole lot of latitude that must be provided to the company to turn things around... often labor doubts problems really exist when it is clear they are there and they should be doubtful. But I also know that business and economics require changes which must be allowed to take place or the result will be an eventual failure.
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Within that framework, DL had its moment of latitude to restructure but it is a profitable business now. They do not have the latitude to outsource total JOBS which once were done inhouse. However, it is very possible that specific functions might one day no longer make sense to do inhouse and continuing to force keeping jobs which do not make economic sense to do inhouse only will result in a business failure down the road.
specific to maintenance, I have said before and will say again that I would gladly support a law saying that any airplane that flies to/from the US must be maintained by US workers or ones that are paid wages comparable to American mechanics... but I know that would never happen.
Thus, labor needs to hold mgmt responsible for preserving JOBS but not necessarily functions. Labor in my mind often does not get that distinction.
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I truly hope DL will expand its maintenance capabilities in MSP and in other places where NW decimated its maintenance workforce. But my highest priority is that no DL mechanic - or any other DL employee - should see his or JOB (not function) outsourced if the company can remain profitable.

 

[eolesen]

I can't imagine that DLH is going to be very high on AAR's list -- it seems to be a limiting facility, and why go work for them if you can go up the road to the mines and double your hourly pay?....

It wouldn't surprise me to see them instead take on AA's AFW should it be cast aside as some believe.

 

[tech2101]

I can't imagine that DLH is going to be very high on AAR's list -- it seems to be a limiting facility, and why go work for them if you can go up the road to the mines and double your hourly pay?....

It wouldn't surprise me to see them instead take on AA's AFW should it be cast aside as some believe.

Agreed. DFW is a much easier place to recruit AMT's than up in the Iron Range...especially at a low MRO salary.

There are many other reasons to select DFW...logistics support, closeness to support facilities, etc...