Migrant Workers

[KCFlyer]

Cited... Cherry picked...
Either or.

Either one....bottom line, it looked impressive at first glance, but that's a pretty fast pace for picking tomatoes, and I think that it would hard to maintain the $15.60 an hour pace. But if it rains "for days" they might only get two days of picking...and factoring that over a month or a year, is a bit less than minimum wage.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

When Americans actually line up at the gates of these farms looking for work, we can have this discussion.

I have known several Americans who worked at farms over the years Kev. One of them even worked for American Airlines.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

But aside from that "bright spot", the rest of the article was saying it's basically slavery.

They also said that was mostly due to COVID lock downs which I hope is a temporary thing.

They might not get a 40 hour week.

They are not paid by the hour.

They can't leave the farm.

Again that is due to the pandemic.

They don't have insurance.

Do they need it? They make 5 times what they can make in Mexico.

They are crammed into barracks. They are packed on a bus.

We cram soldiers into barracks. Part of the job. What is wrong with being crammed on a bus? I thought you leftist loved mass transit. I was crammed on a bus every singe day I worked for American Airlines. Bus driver was actually a bid job for our shop.

Forget minimum wage....would you give up LIVING for $15.60 for each hour of backbreaking work? And that's not including any break times.

If I made FIVE times the amount I do now I would consider doing a 4 or 5 year run. Wouldn't you like to work 5 years for 25 years of wages?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Cited... Cherry picked...
Either or.

I provided you a link to the article. Anyone can go read it in it's entirety. If you want to focus on other aspects be my guest.

 

[KCFlyer]

They also said that was mostly due to COVID lock downs which I hope is a temporary thing.

They are not paid by the hour.

Again that is due to the pandemic.

Do they need it? They make 5 times what they can make in Mexico.

We cram soldiers into barracks. Part of the job. What is wrong with being crammed on a bus? I thought you leftist loved mass transit. I was crammed on a bus every singe day I worked for American Airlines. Bus driver was actually a bid job for our shop.

If I made FIVE times the amount I do now I would consider doing a 4 or 5 year run. Wouldn't you like to work 5 years for 25 years of wages?

Oh right...they are paid by the basket. And if they pick like hell for an hour, they can earn the equivalent of $15.60 an hour. And if they can do that for 8 to 10 hours a day at that pace, they might be able to move to Beverly Hills. But it rains a lot there and there are days where they will pick zero baskets. That means that they make no money. And it ruins their boots. So they'll have to pay to get new boots. And despite covid, they are still crammed in barracks and they still are packed in busses. And they don't need insurance because they are making so much money. But if they DO get sick, with no insurance, the doctors visit will cost them a day's pay for a 10 minute visit. Because I don't know if you know this, but medical care in the US ain't cheap. Although I guess the MIGHT be able to see a doctor that is paid by the government to help the uninsured. Because medical care in the US is 50 times what it cost in Mexico.

But those Mezzicans are taking jobs from Americans.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Oh right...they are paid by the basket. And if they pick like hell for an hour, they can earn the equivalent of $15.60 an hour. And if they can do that for 8 to 10 hours a day at that pace, they might be able to move to Beverly Hills.

If they did not find it beneficial they would not do it.

But it rains a lot there and there are days where they will pick zero baskets. That means that they make no money. And it ruins their boots. So they'll have to pay to get new boots.

And despite covid, they are still crammed in barracks and they still are packed in busses.

Yes. They are temporary migrant workers. Why build expensive and expansive housing for what amounts to temporary accommodations. If they want room and privacy they can go buy a 4 person tent. God forbid, don't ever get a job on a cruise ship, your whining will flood the oceans.

And they don't need insurance because they are making so much money. But if they DO get sick, with no insurance, the doctors visit will cost them a day's pay for a 10 minute visit. Because I don't know if you know this, but medical care in the US ain't cheap. Although I guess the MIGHT be able to see a doctor that is paid by the government to help the uninsured.

I am not sure if they are covered for on the job injuries. If they are not they should be at the employers expense. I think you and I are in agreement on this issue.

Because medical care in the US is 50 times what it cost in Mexico.

They are free to go back home to seek medical care.

But those Mezzicans are taking jobs from Americans.

Actually they are. The Tyson fiasco proved that (after the ICE raid they hired a ton of American help that day). I am also betting I have done a lot more factory work than you have and these factories today, what used to be good middle class American jobs, are mostly full of South American and Chinese labor. That drives the wages for those jobs down.

 

[KCFlyer]

Actually they are. The Tyson fiasco proved that (after the ICE raid they hired a ton of American help that day). I am also betting I have done a lot more factory work than you have and these factories today, what used to be good middle class American jobs, are mostly full of South American and Chinese labor. That drives the wages for those jobs down.

Oh...I've worked a few factory jobs in my day. I don't blame the immigrants for that. I blame the business. I'll bet Tyson's costs when up when they hired the Americans. But I have a solution. IF a business...be it a "mom and pop" company or a corporation like Tyson. If they are caught using illegal labor...don't just tell them that they are bad and send the Mexican's home....they need to send the Mexicans home and assess a "this will damn near put you out of business" fine against them. Make the BUSINESS feel far more pain that what paying a "middle class wage" would cost them. Make them HURT. Make them double check every employee that they hire. Because what usually happens is that what used to be called INS would round the workers up and send them home, and the company would turn around and hire the next batch moving in. I don't care if severe fines are "business unfriendly"...hiring illegal workers is American worker unfriendly. But they all get a pass. Don't give them a pass, and don't assess them a "slap on the wrist" fine. Make it something that the owner or the shareholders will notice. And if they are dumb enough to do it a second time - send the owner OR the CEO to prison for a couple of years. If you reduce the demand for low wage workers, you'll reduce the supply of low wage workers.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Oh...I've worked a few factory jobs in my day. I don't blame the immigrants for that. I blame the business. I'll bet Tyson's costs when up when they hired the Americans. But I have a solution. IF a business...be it a "mom and pop" company or a corporation like Tyson. If they are caught using illegal labor...don't just tell them that they are bad and send the Mexican's home....they need to send the Mexicans home and assess a "this will damn near put you out of business" fine against them. Make the BUSINESS feel far more pain that what paying a "middle class wage" would cost them. Make them HURT. Make them double check every employee that they hire. Because what usually happens is that what used to be called INS would round the workers up and send them home, and the company would turn around and hire the next batch moving in. I don't care if severe fines are "business unfriendly"...hiring illegal workers is American worker unfriendly. But they all get a pass. Don't give them a pass, and don't assess them a "slap on the wrist" fine. Make it something that the owner or the shareholders will notice. And if they are dumb enough to do it a second time - send the owner OR the CEO to prison for a couple of years. If you reduce the demand for low wage workers, you'll reduce the supply of low wage workers.

You also incentivize offshoring of jobs. Since you lefties hate tariffs that puts us in a bit of a situation. Our government is making a push (and Obama actually STATED THIS) to change our economy from one of producing goods to providing services.

Fining alone is not enough, you have to limit paths to market penetration. That is what Trump attempted to do with tariffs to protect American jobs and the left had a fit.

 

[KCFlyer]

You also incentivize offshoring of jobs. Since you lefties hate tariffs that puts us in a bit of a situation. Our government is making a push (and Obama actually STATED THIS) to change our economy from one of producing goods to providing services.

Fining alone is not enough, you have to limit paths to market penetration. That is what Trump attempted to do with tariffs to protect American jobs and the left had a fit.

The offshoring of jobs became popular just after the time that we all became shareholders via our 401K plans. I believe some guy named Reagan started that. And I hate to say this, but we had shifted from a manufacturing economy to a service economy before Obama was even a senator. From the service economy we have become a shareholder economy, and we are in the phase of becoming an inheritance economy. I mean...when Obama was still in college, there was a move afoot from the right complaining about how we were paying some guy "$75 an hour to put a bumper on a car". And thus it was laid out...either Americans should work for less, or we will send production to where they will do the work for less.

But the push for reduced production costs occurred under Republicans. We accepted it. And we bought stock in Walmart and encouraged even more jobs to move overseas. Because we were now shareholders and Walmart made our 401K's look really good. It wasn't democrats that did that. It was the GOP. Hate to break that to you. Democrats aren't blameless though. Starting with Clinton, the democrats started to shift from the party of the working man to the "college educated" workers. The Republicans talked a good talk....they were for you...they just didn't want to pay you. And if a company could get someone to build a car for $10 a day instead of $20 an hour - they'd move and the GOP would tell you how important "good paying jobs" were to them. But their definition of "good paying" dropped a lot.

How many companies have moved manufacturing back to the US since the tariffs were implemented? Is it more or less than the number of companies moved manufacturing from China to Vietnam to avoid the tariffs? I know I read where GM closed a plant in Lordstown and Hamtramk....MAGA.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

First off Bears I have no idea what that has to do with the post I made debunking the lie that illegals work for super low wages.

A lot of people get paid based on productivity instead of time.

What about truckers? They get paid per mile. If those wheels are not turning they are not earning. Some truckers sit in their trucks for HOURS waiting to get loaded/unloaded not earning a dime.

Other truckers get paid by the load.

Are you saying that none of these truckers that get paid by the mile or by the load (not a standard hourly wage) are UNIONized?

I find that hard to believe.

It is worth mentioning I fundamentally agree with you. Workers cannot always control the rate of productivity (like waiting hours to unload for example). My time is valuable and as far as I am concerned a business is not paying me for my labor but for my time and availability. They are basically buying a slice of my life for an agreed upon amount per hour. They should not be entitled to a portion of my life span without compensation. That is why I won't work cheap. From my perspective, if you low ball me, then you are communicating to me that my life/time has no value. Again it is my job to be available and their job to make sure I have means to be productive.

There has been a lot of discussion among truck drivers about going to per hour pay instead of per mile or load. They are getting sick of waiting 10 to 12 hours to unload and not getting compensated and I agree with them. Of course the downside is if trucker pay goes up EVERYONE pays more for EVERYTHING. They have basically been taken advantage of to everyone else's benefit.

Put your thinking-cap on La', and remember that great Movie " HOFFA " with Jack Nicholson. It's how the teamster got their start. 'Jack' said to Danny Devito, "Who gonna' pay you when this Chit' box breaks down" ??????? How come truck drivers in BOS/NY/Philly are making a TON of money, while drivers in say OK, or AR (for example) are making CHIT' ????
My point is that the average American worker is UNDER PAID, has shitty health bennies and probably NO defined retirement plan.

This is what happens when organized labor gets eroded, thanks to conservatives in power in DC.
It's the Very Reason I want J B to get elected.

( PS La'. J B L O V E S AMTRAK, LOVES Them) !!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

And I hate to say this, but we had shifted from a manufacturing economy to a service economy before Obama was even a senator.

There is a difference between natural evolution encouraged by economic forces and purposeful implementation.

I mean...when Obama was still in college, there was a move afoot from the right complaining about how we were paying some guy "$75 an hour to put a bumper on a car". And thus it was laid out...either Americans should work for less, or we will send production to where they will do the work for less.

Products have to be affordable KCFlyer. That money for those wages has to come from somewhere. How much do you want to pay for a car? I spent almost 50K last year for a car. I saw trucks that cost far more than that at the dealership.

But the push for reduced production costs occurred under Republicans. We accepted it. And we bought stock in Walmart and encouraged even more jobs to move overseas. Because we were now shareholders and Walmart made our 401K's look really good. It wasn't democrats that did that. It was the GOP. Hate to break that to you.

I hate to break it to you but you are dead wrong. Business has ALWAYS tried to undercut the competition. That was happening long before the United States was even a thing.

Democrats aren't blameless though. Starting with Clinton, the democrats started to shift from the party of the working man to the "college educated" workers.

Now they are the party of manufactured victims.

The Republicans talked a good talk....they were for you...they just didn't want to pay you. And if a company could get someone to build a car for $10 a day instead of $20 an hour - they'd move and the GOP would tell you how important "good paying jobs" were to them. But their definition of "good paying" dropped a lot.

The difference between you and I is I know the GOP does not pay or dictate my wages. Government does not create wealth, they never have, they only consume it. You keep conflating corporate America with the Republican Party. I can only assume this is a symptom of your leftist, socialist, ideals. You also might like to consider that a lot of companies have leaders who pander to the Democratic party.

How many companies have moved manufacturing back to the US since the tariffs were implemented? Is it more or less than the number of companies moved manufacturing from China to Vietnam to avoid the tariffs? I know I read where GM closed a plant in Lordstown and Hamtramk....MAGA.

I can't think of any specific examples off hand but I have read articles where companies have moved manufacturing stateside or made proclamations that they intended to do so after realization of investment in manufacturing sites. I suppose I could Google some if you just really need some examples.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Put your thinking-cap on La', and remember that great Movie " HOFFA " with Jack Nicholson. It's how the teamster got their start. 'Jack' said to Danny Devito, "Who gonna' pay you when this Chit' box breaks down" ??????? How come truck drivers in BOS/NY/Philly are making a TON of money, while drivers in say OK, or AR (for example) are making CHIT' ????
My point is that the average American worker is UNDER PAID, has shitty health bennies and probably NO defined retirement plan.

This is what happens when organized labor gets eroded, thanks to conservatives in power in DC.
It's the Very Reason I want J B to get elected.

( PS La'. J B L O V E S AMTRAK, LOVES Them) !!

JB is a weak minded, spinless, old fool that will be nothing more than a puppet for the extreme left.

https://www.indeed.com/career/truck-driver/salaries/NY
According to this website a driver in New York makes about $71,858/year.

https://www.indeed.com/career/truck-driver/salaries/OK
According to this website a driver in Oklahoma make about $69,945/year.

I don't know Bears $1,913 does not seem like they are making a TON of money when you figure in the cost of doing business,bribing lumpers, and cost of living. In fact it looks like the NY boys are getting SCREWED. If the Teamsters UNION were worth a damn drivers would not sit for HOURS waiting to get loaded/unloaded without compensation.

 

[KCFlyer]

Put your thinking-cap on La', and remember that great Movie " HOFFA " with Jack Nicholson. It's how the teamster got their start. 'Jack' said to Danny Devito, "Who gonna' pay you when this Chit' box breaks down" ??????? How come truck drivers in BOS/NY/Philly are making a TON of money, while drivers in say OK, or AR (for example) are making CHIT' ????
My point is that the average American worker is UNDER PAID, has shitty health bennies and probably NO defined retirement plan.

This is what happens when organized labor gets eroded, thanks to conservatives in power in DC.
It's the Very Reason I want J B to get elected.

( PS La'. J B L O V E S AMTRAK, LOVES Them) !!

Republicans have convinced us that our parents were overpaid for the work they did. I mean, their parents were "paid $75 an hour to put a bumper on a car"...and they were. But it wasn't all salary. A big part of it was insurance that the company paid. Some more of it went to a pension the company provided. The rest went home....allowing mom to stay home and raise the kids...allowing them to buy a camper or a boat....allowing them to take vacations. The economy did pretty good then too. Today, $15 bucks an hour with no pension and if health care is available, the employee pays a fair chunk towards it...and it's considered a "good paying job". Oh yeah...another thing it did was to allow our parents to retire around 62 , which opened up a higher paying job for an up and coming younger person. Today it's a badge of honor to work until you are 70....because you have to.

 

[xUT]

I was stationed at Fort Bragg for 3 years.
Had a chance to pick Tabaco and cotton at a pretty good 'seasonal' wage.
Try breaking your back in the NC sun and humidity and get back to me...