Major Airline Mechanics-overpaid?

[bpapaDC9]

This is not flamebait.

Let em explain. I'm a furloughed UAL pilot and I recently had a conversation with a mechanic at a large regional airline. This took place while he was showing me the crashpad he runs. Besides being very anti-union, he claimed that "no mechanic is worth $30 an hour in their second year at Delta Southwest, etc." He said he would rather work at a non-union shop and that he could make far more money as a contract (at large) mechanic than he could at a union shop. I haven't been able to verify that the wage he stated is correct.

My question to any that care to answer is this: What are the pros and cons of being a union mechanic versus a non-union mechanic? What argument would you make about his claim that no mechanic is worth that money?

I will be seeing this guy again and just wanted some input regarding his claims.

Respectfully,

bpapadc9

 

[91import]

Here is my thought. As far as union or non union, a certified A&P should make the same at either place. It shouldn't matter, the training to get to that point is the same. You have invested either time in the military, went to school or both to get your license. This all equals the same compensation i.e. WAGES.

It's the same in your shoes, you've invested time, money , whatever to get where you want to be. The responsibility that we have demands a wage that is far superior to that that we have now. A fleet service clerk or a stores person should not be a few dollars below our scale. What schooling or responsibility do they have?

Check out "Human Capital Theory" It's written by a Nobel winner for economics(I think) from Chicago. After reading this, it put things in perspective for me.

I'm not saying that other people should not make a good wage, I just don't won't it to hold my pay back by supporting them. This is when the union is a bad thing, you have to slice up the pie of labor costs. Unless you have a seperate union that just represents your craft, i.e. mechanics, pilots, flight attendents you will not be able to get what you have earned.

 

[bpapaDC9]

Thanks for the response.

I'm familiar with what you're saying and some of the theories behind union versus non-union. I guess I'm looking for specific examples of quality of life, benefits, wages, etc. from people who have worked at union maintenance facilities versus non-union.

The point of the whole matter is I can provide specific examples of being a pilot at a non-union versus union airline, but I am not familiar enough with your profession to have an educated debate.

Respectfully,

bpapaDC9

I think I will check out Human Capital Theory, thanks.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Sounds like this guy is A: just bitter that a major never called him for employment, or B:doesn't know what he's talking about,or both. I don't know any airlines that pay a second year mechanic $30/hr. If the whole airline industry were under AMFA, that would probably be the starting wage at the majors. But since we waited too long to get rid of the IAM,IBT,and TWU we are stuck with poverty level starting wages at a lot of major airlines. To answer the part whether union or non-union is better that depends on the company. If the airlines had treated their employees fairly in the past, they wouldn't have had to worry about a union. Instead they treated their employees like dirt and most of the airline industry is now heavily unionized.

 

[sentrido]

I dont know if these numbers are current
http://www.amfanuts.com/1334/amounts_liste..._current_to.htm

 

[scorpion]

American Airlines
2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
CURRENT DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS+5
1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5% 1.5%

Aviation Maintenance Technician
1st 18 Months $13.68 $13.89 $14.10 $14.31 $14.52 $14.74
2nd 18 Months $15.06 $15.29 $15.52 $15.75 $15.99 $16.23
3rd 18 Months $16.40 $16.65 $16.90 $17.15 $17.41 $17.67
Last 6 Months $17.78 $18.05 $18.32 $18.59 $18.87 $19.15
Thereafter $25.25 $25.63 $26.01 $26.40 $26.80 $27.20

Plus $5.00 per hour license premiem

2 year mech. $15.06 + $5.oo license prem. = $20.06

5 holidays
1/2 pay for first 2 days sick
1 week vacation for first 5 years service

 

[Buck]

I dont know if these numbers are current
http://www.amfanuts.com/1334/amounts_liste..._current_to.htm

Your numbers are not current......

 

[Checking it Out]

Click here and you will see some interesting wage comparisions:
Aviation Today

Look thru and you will see more up to date wage information.

 

[Hopeful]

James C. Little

Administrative Vice President, Air Transport Division

Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO

1791 Hurstview Dr.

Hurst, Texas 76054





Re: Summary of the 2003 Contract changes



This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on (DOS), 2003. During these negotiations, we discussed many changes intended to achieve sustained long-term financial relief from the current provisions of the TWU labor agreements. This letter is intended to recap the majority of the agreed upon changes. Changes are listed by Title groups: I (Mechanics and Related), II (Facilities, Automotive, Cabin Cleaners, Utility and Building Cleaners), III (Fleet Service), IV (Fuelers), V (Stock Clerks), T/S (Technical Specials), Disp (Dispatch), Metro (Meteorologists), Sim Techs (Simulator Technicians) and Instrs (Ground School and Pilot Instructors).



Pay Related

Effective May 1, 2003:

§ Base wage pay reduction, varying percentages (all groups)

§ Elimination of all longevity pay(I & II)

§ Modified longevity pay, start after 17 years, current rates (III, IV, V,T/S)

§ Reduced Sim Tech Coordinator premium by $.75/hour

§ Reduced Sim Tech Skill pay to $.10/hour

§ Reduced Pilot Simulator Instructors premium to $10.00/month

§ Reduced Ground School/Pilot Simulator Instructors standardization coordinator pay to $150.00/month

§ Reduced Pilot/Simulator Instructors work unit experience premium

§ Modified shift differential to $.01, $.02, $.03 (I, II, III, V, T/S, Sim Techs)

§ Elimination of weekend differential (I, II, V, at AFW, TUL, MCI)

§ Elimination of midnight skill retention premium (Sim Techs)

§ Training pay at straight time for off shift and day off (I, II)

§ Elimination of penalty lunch payment (I, II, III, IV, V)

§ Elimination of OT meal allowance (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)

§ Penalty hours pay for actual time worked @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S)

§ Reduce OT rate from 2x to 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V)

§ Work 40 hrs to reach OT rate for day off overtime (III, V)

§ Elimination of debrief pay (T/S)

§ Elimination of Stock Clerk driver premium

§ Elimination of AMT premiums when displacing OSM employee

§ Elimination of Early Call-In guarantees (I, II, III, IV)

§ Elimination of short turn penalty due to shift bids (Art 21 d) (III, IV)

§ Elimination of CC premium when not working as CC (III,V)







Work Rules/ Other changes and effective dates:

Effective April 15, 2003:

§ Combine Systems/Structures into Generals (Title I)

§ Added 7 day labor loan provision (Bases only)

§ Increased AMT productivity through multiple work assignments/training

§ Holidays reduced from 10 to 5. The five (5) observed holidays will be: New Year’s Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day (all groups)

o Holidays- 5 days with roll @ 1.5x (I, II, III, IV, V, T/S, Sim Techs)

o Holidays- 5 days (no roll) @ 1.5x (Disp, Metro, Instrs)



Effective May 1, 2003


§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days @ 100% (all except I & II)

§ Reduce annual SK accrual to 5 days, 1st two at 50% (I & II)



Effective May 3, 2003

§ 4/10s at Overhaul docks/TUL, duration of agreement

Effective within sixty (60) days of ratification:

§ Outsource RON/Ultraclean (II/III)

§ One time System protection credit for headcount reductions realized from work rule changes (all groups except Metro)



Effective thirty (30) days from ratification:



§ Reduce uniform provisioning and eliminate laundering (I, II, III, IV, V)

§ Outsource stores function at HDQ (6 Stock Clerks)

§ Relocate 4 Stock Clerks at ORD/GEM to ORD/M & E hanger



Effective as soon as practicable after DOS:

§ Change work schedule to 5 on, 2 off (T/S)

§ Reduced VC accrual one week (all groups)

§ Modify Crew Chief ratios:

AMT- 1:11.5

FSC- 1:9

Fuelers- eliminated ratio

Stores- 1:12

Benefits:

§ Medical & Dental plan modifications (all groups) Effective 1/1/04



§ SLOA Benefit Coverage reduced from 24 to12 months (all groups)

Effective 5/01/03



§ Eliminate STD Plan (all groups) Effective 1/1/04



§ Discontinue subsidized medical benefits RIF’d employees (all groups)

Effective 4/15/03





§ Modify IOD to 10 days (all groups) Effective 5/01/03 with the following transition:



o If the injury was incurred prior to 4/15/03, remaining applicable salary continuation through the end of the month up to the current 80 days

o If the injury is incurred on 4/15/03 or before 4/30/03, salary continuation for 10 days up to the current 80 days

o If the injury is incurred after 5/01/03, salary continuation for 10 days



Sincerely,





James B. Weel

Managing Director

Employee Relations



Agreed to this date:



________________________________

James C Little

Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO

 

[91import]

Just an update to my previous post.

The authors name is Gary Stanley Becker and the book I spoke about is named "Human Capital"

Synopsis
"Human Capital" is Becker's study of how investment in an individual's education and training is similar to business investments in equipment. Becker looks at the effects of investment in education on earnings and employment, and shows how his theory measures the incentive for such investment, as well as the costs and returns from college and high school education. Another part of the study explores the relation between age and earnings. This edition includes four new chapters, covering recent ideas about human capital, fertility and economic growth, the division of labour, economic considerations within the family, and inequality in earnings.

 

[TDR1502C]

Mechanics' wages and compensation at UAL (pre-bankruptcy) and NWA were set by the government through PEB's. Why would one want to work for less?

 

[sentrido]

Click here and you will see some interesting wage comparisions:
Aviation Today

Look thru and you will see more up to date wage information

from tha article:
""There is a shortfall of about 4,000 mechanics a year for the next four years," notes Lewis. "Virtually every employer is looking for qualified people. We see this trend continuing for five to eight years. Our fear and the flying publics' fear should be that the industry might reduce standards to meet employment needs."
"
Did the author notice all the mechanics that got laid off after 9/11? I cant imagine there is a shortage. Am I wrong? Are you laid off mechs out there finding good jobs in aviation?

 

[TDR1502C]

Click here and you will see some interesting wage comparisions:
Aviation Today

Look thru and you will see more up to date wage information

from tha article:
""There is a shortfall of about 4,000 mechanics a year for the next four years," notes Lewis. "Virtually every employer is looking for qualified people. We see this trend continuing for five to eight years. Our fear and the flying publics' fear should be that the industry might reduce standards to meet employment needs."
"
Did the author notice all the mechanics that got laid off after 9/11? I cant imagine there is a shortage. Am I wrong? Are you laid off mechs out there finding good jobs in aviation?

The heavy hitters are finding jobs.

 

[AP Tech]

Many furloughed mechanics are leaving the industry all together. With the sector in turmoil, many turn to other sectors where there is not as much responsiblity,jobs a bit more secure, and the same if not more money to be made.


As for the initial statement about the anti union mechanic claiming a Delta mechanic makes over $30/hr his second year......I agree he is just a disgrunted mechanic who was turned down by the majors. Contract mechanics average $12 to $24 or so an hour and that usually does not include benifits.

 

[sentrido]

"As for the initial statement about the anti union mechanic claiming a Delta mechanic makes over $30/hr his second year......I agree he is just a disgrunted mechanic who was turned down by the majors. Contract mechanics average $12 to $24 or so an hour and that usually does not include benifits"

They do get per diem for living in that hotel for 8 weeks!
Whata bargain!