Maa - Republic Sale
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Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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FL370 said:
Airways date of hire since that is who you work for. For F/As, you are paid at the scale for your years with the company (the real company, US Airways, not the imaginary "MDA").
SoldWholeSale
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- Mar 4, 2004
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Pilots hold seniority based on USAirways DOH, pay ALPA dues based on USAiways DOH, work under an unpublished version of the American Eagle Contract with no side letters blended with the AAA pilots working agreement. The catch is that when MDA was started and began operations under the USAirways operating certificate, both the union and the company thought it fair to pay "new hire" training pay while in training, and then first year pay after that.
So when were MDA pilots hired??? Was it AAA DOH? ALPA Membership date? Date of groundschool on the Embraer 170? Date of ground school on some other USAirways fleet type? Should it be thier seniority date, for bidding, their date of longevity for pay under the eagle contrace?
Lots of questions and not many answers or help from the AAA ALPA group. This will more than likely all shake out with the arbitrator or later in court as the MDA pilots have retained outside council.
SH
So when were MDA pilots hired??? Was it AAA DOH? ALPA Membership date? Date of groundschool on the Embraer 170? Date of ground school on some other USAirways fleet type? Should it be thier seniority date, for bidding, their date of longevity for pay under the eagle contrace?
Lots of questions and not many answers or help from the AAA ALPA group. This will more than likely all shake out with the arbitrator or later in court as the MDA pilots have retained outside council.
SH
ManDachine
Member
- Feb 4, 2004
- 96
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IMO, if MDA pilots are to be considered re-called, they are going to have to re-due the entire J4J. I'm pretty sure that a pilot would have gone to MDA instead of let's say Mesa, if the word RE-CALLED was spoken!
SoldWholeSale
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- Mar 4, 2004
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Most all did leave Mesa for MDA. The word recalled was not spoken, but how about this: You are invited to come work at MDA because you are on the AAA list, you will be given seniority based on your AAA hire date, you will be governed by a hybrid AAA/American Eagle contract, you will be trained by USAir ground instructors, you will report to USAir Chief Pilot, you will be dispatched by mainline USAir dispatchers, and the clencher, you will fly under the USAirways operating certificate, and fly using the USAir call sign......
Does it get any more recalled than that??
PS..... You will pay AAA APLA dues from the first day of ground shool at MDA with no probation period because you were already probationary AAA one other time.
ALL OR NONE!
Does it get any more recalled than that??
PS..... You will pay AAA APLA dues from the first day of ground shool at MDA with no probation period because you were already probationary AAA one other time.
ALL OR NONE!
elixir
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- Jun 2, 2005
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Agreed. I know I would have. All of my conversations with the chief pilots office re: "placement" at certain carriers NEVER involved the word"recalled"...but I always considered the MDA "division" of U just that...a division. IE..back on the property at U.ManDachine said:
I am anxiously awaiting how this all boils out while sitting at Mesa in PHX. It's interesting to me that the word "recalled" (implications of seniority) was always avoided. MDA people should be referring to their Airways DOH for all transactions going forward...IMO.
OP
goodgirl37
Senior
- Jul 24, 2005
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #52
Light Years said:
this is true there is no such thing as mid atlantic - did you know that if you look on your checks everything for mid atlantic is the exact same as USAIR such as tax id #s etc. It is Usairwyas and just the same as metrojet it was considered usair not express. The signage looks very stupid on the side of the plane - and lets ask this question as well - what happens when Jetblue starts to fly the 190s and it isnt express - People dont want to fly on an express plane and it really isnt so - there is no such thing as MDA! I guess if there were and it was contracted out then i wouldnt be carrying around a mainline manual and be trained on all mainline planes etc. This is what really pisses me off about the whole thing for the merger. I am mainline and will not be integrated however I am working and carrying a mainline manual and trained on everything including the 757 and the 767 and the 321 and AWA doesnt even have those planes so in the end their people will have to be trained and I am STILL considered off property!!!
Bobbie is fighting to keep F/A jobs. You can't fault her for that. It isn't a secret that the MidAtlantic deal has been delayed. However, Republic pilots say managment want ratification of the amended J4J contract by Aug 31, so no doubt they would like to seal things up at the end of the month.
Airways and Wexford have a signed contract for the sale of the division. OK so what? No money has changed hands no one would even be harmed, why dont they just go to the Judge? They have no problem asking the judge for millions in bonuses, or asking him to put tens of thousands of people out of work. What is the big deal about asking the judge to void the "division" portion of the contract?
320, do you have any idea?
320, do you have any idea?
IMO this issue still comes down to nuts and bolts.
The fact of the matter is that Republic still does not have it's own certificate.
The purchase of MDA makes sense for them only of they can obtain said certificate, otherwise they continue to run afoul of various scope clauses.
Although Mr Bedford assures everyone that obtianing a new cerfitcate is only a matter of time, until his company is able to secure one for Republic to operate, this deal is still a question mark.
IMO it seems that the FAA is less than thrilled anymore about issuing multiple certificates to what is essentially one company/one airline system. This requires a larger amount of resources and oversight on their part for no other reason other than to satisfy the desire of a company to "work around" contractual labor issues.
There is no operational, safety, nor organizational advantage to allowing Republic holdings to have three separate cerificates. This is especially the case since these (supposed) different carriers would operate simular (EMB)/the same (170/190) aircraft types...
If anything IMO, the FAA has pushed for the opposite, forcing/pushing consolidation of multiple certificates into a fewer number. Mesa Air Group is a good example of this.
The other thing that comes into play, is that although U is held bound by the deal to sell MDA 30 days unpon leaving BK, they are not bound to allow Republic to do much more than that. It is my understanding that operation of additional EMB flying, in particular the E-190 remains the discretion of US Airways. IMO If Republic wants to "hold" U to the deal and purchase MDA, they might lose out on bigger and brighter opportunities as a result.
As for labor issues, the recent announcement by the IBT is less than awe inspiring... Put it this way, pay was never the issue. Senority for bidding purposes was and STILL IS.
IF the IBT is serious about resolvong this, they need to adopt a compromise that allows the MDA pilots to retain senority for bidding purposes. The thrill of sitting reserve in whatever crappy junior base Republic has is not enough to entice MDA pilots to accept a pay cut.
I have the expectation of maintaining my relative MDA bid status, not just my low MDA pay. And I am not alone in that demand.
If the CHQ IBT cannot come to grips with their selfish need to staple us to the bottom of their list, then they can feel free to further "shoot themselves in the foot" and be the reason this crappy deal , and any future deals fall apart.
The fact of the matter is that Republic still does not have it's own certificate.
The purchase of MDA makes sense for them only of they can obtain said certificate, otherwise they continue to run afoul of various scope clauses.
Although Mr Bedford assures everyone that obtianing a new cerfitcate is only a matter of time, until his company is able to secure one for Republic to operate, this deal is still a question mark.
IMO it seems that the FAA is less than thrilled anymore about issuing multiple certificates to what is essentially one company/one airline system. This requires a larger amount of resources and oversight on their part for no other reason other than to satisfy the desire of a company to "work around" contractual labor issues.
There is no operational, safety, nor organizational advantage to allowing Republic holdings to have three separate cerificates. This is especially the case since these (supposed) different carriers would operate simular (EMB)/the same (170/190) aircraft types...
If anything IMO, the FAA has pushed for the opposite, forcing/pushing consolidation of multiple certificates into a fewer number. Mesa Air Group is a good example of this.
The other thing that comes into play, is that although U is held bound by the deal to sell MDA 30 days unpon leaving BK, they are not bound to allow Republic to do much more than that. It is my understanding that operation of additional EMB flying, in particular the E-190 remains the discretion of US Airways. IMO If Republic wants to "hold" U to the deal and purchase MDA, they might lose out on bigger and brighter opportunities as a result.
As for labor issues, the recent announcement by the IBT is less than awe inspiring... Put it this way, pay was never the issue. Senority for bidding purposes was and STILL IS.
IF the IBT is serious about resolvong this, they need to adopt a compromise that allows the MDA pilots to retain senority for bidding purposes. The thrill of sitting reserve in whatever crappy junior base Republic has is not enough to entice MDA pilots to accept a pay cut.
I have the expectation of maintaining my relative MDA bid status, not just my low MDA pay. And I am not alone in that demand.
If the CHQ IBT cannot come to grips with their selfish need to staple us to the bottom of their list, then they can feel free to further "shoot themselves in the foot" and be the reason this crappy deal , and any future deals fall apart.
Although not thrilled with the idea of E190's on our property, Rico you cannot now look and say we are looking to "Staple" anyone to the bottom. This J4J agreement is the same as it has been for 2 years now. There is no change in the way it will be maintained. If you were hired at any other airline (which CHQ/REP is) you start at the bottom. Nobody walks into another airline and gets better than that. What is crappy about it is that you must deal with it. What this current deal in fact will do in my understanding is allow all J4J pilots to come to CHQ/REP IF THEY desire. Nobody will hold a gun to your head, you may come if you wish.
There is no training agreement that I have read about, there is none of the other issues I have read about negatively by fellow MDA pilots. I hope that things will work out to keep the E190's where they should be, at the Mainline, but I will not "shoot myself in the foot" by voting against increasing our J4J program. It will provide jobs for both CHQ/REP pilots, and will provide jobs for MDA pilots that still want to fly the E170 and possibly the E190's.
Were we owned in any way by U things might be different, but CHQ/REP is a business, and we are all stuck with mopping up what is thrown at us.
Best of luck as always.
There is no training agreement that I have read about, there is none of the other issues I have read about negatively by fellow MDA pilots. I hope that things will work out to keep the E190's where they should be, at the Mainline, but I will not "shoot myself in the foot" by voting against increasing our J4J program. It will provide jobs for both CHQ/REP pilots, and will provide jobs for MDA pilots that still want to fly the E170 and possibly the E190's.
Were we owned in any way by U things might be different, but CHQ/REP is a business, and we are all stuck with mopping up what is thrown at us.
Best of luck as always.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
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Republic and the IBT made a number of mistakes in its negotiations with US Airways. Republic did not seek to provide US Airways equity when other investors stepped up; thus it now has no say in the new merged company.
The Republic IBT leaders did not embrace US Airways ALPA's LOA 91 regarding fragmentation and did not offer to take all of the MDA pilots with their aircraft, thus the labor fight. The IBT wanted to take 70 MDA Captains, 70 First Officers, and for MDA to furlough about 160 pilots. In addition, Republic wanted the 140 pilots to conduct proving runs and help the company obtain an "operating certificate", since the comapny is having a lot of difficulty doing it them self.
The new US Airways no longer desires to sell MDA to Republic and would like to get out of the Republic deal. With the America West ALPA contract prohibiting EMB-190 flying at an affiliate, the ALPA TCC making good progress with the company in joint negotiations on flying the EMB-190 on the mainline or at MDA that could prevent EMB-190 affiliate flying, and the recent Republic IBT contract change regarding J4J and the EMB-190, I believe Republic and the IBT has once again "shot them self" in the foot. Basically it could be too little too late to get Large RJ EMB flying from US Airways.
For Republic to get the 90-seat Embraer RJ flying, US Airways must reach an agreement with Republic to permit the Express operator to fly the EMB-190. Considering the items listed in the paragraph above, I believe Republic will not get EMB-190 or additional EMB-170 flying from the new US Airways.
In addition, I understand both Bruce Lakefield and Doug Parker are perturbed with Brian Bedford and Republic "nickel and dimeing" US Airways, which could cause other repercussions. In my opinion, US Airways may reject some or all of the Chautauqua flying and replace EMB-145s with other Large RJs that have a lower CASM.
What's interesting here is that in the beginning of US Airways' formal reorganization it "arm twisted" potential affiliate carrier equity investors and United Airlines significantly helped the Arlington-based company survive when United rejected the Air Wisconsin "fee for service" agreement. When the Appleton-based company needed a partner it reached an unique DIP/equity agreement with the Arlington-based carrier, which started a series of events where US Airways' affiliate partners had a lot of leverage to a point where they now have no leverage, and the new US Airways has all of the leverage in its "fee for service" and new Large RJ flying authorization.
This week the ALPA TCC is meeting with the company in Phoenix and a new Large RJ agreement could be reached in principal in the not-to-distant future that prevents Republic from flying any EMB-170 or EMB-190 flying for US Airways Express.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. I understand Republic is having a lot of difficulty obtaining an operating certificate.
The Republic IBT leaders did not embrace US Airways ALPA's LOA 91 regarding fragmentation and did not offer to take all of the MDA pilots with their aircraft, thus the labor fight. The IBT wanted to take 70 MDA Captains, 70 First Officers, and for MDA to furlough about 160 pilots. In addition, Republic wanted the 140 pilots to conduct proving runs and help the company obtain an "operating certificate", since the comapny is having a lot of difficulty doing it them self.
The new US Airways no longer desires to sell MDA to Republic and would like to get out of the Republic deal. With the America West ALPA contract prohibiting EMB-190 flying at an affiliate, the ALPA TCC making good progress with the company in joint negotiations on flying the EMB-190 on the mainline or at MDA that could prevent EMB-190 affiliate flying, and the recent Republic IBT contract change regarding J4J and the EMB-190, I believe Republic and the IBT has once again "shot them self" in the foot. Basically it could be too little too late to get Large RJ EMB flying from US Airways.
For Republic to get the 90-seat Embraer RJ flying, US Airways must reach an agreement with Republic to permit the Express operator to fly the EMB-190. Considering the items listed in the paragraph above, I believe Republic will not get EMB-190 or additional EMB-170 flying from the new US Airways.
In addition, I understand both Bruce Lakefield and Doug Parker are perturbed with Brian Bedford and Republic "nickel and dimeing" US Airways, which could cause other repercussions. In my opinion, US Airways may reject some or all of the Chautauqua flying and replace EMB-145s with other Large RJs that have a lower CASM.
What's interesting here is that in the beginning of US Airways' formal reorganization it "arm twisted" potential affiliate carrier equity investors and United Airlines significantly helped the Arlington-based company survive when United rejected the Air Wisconsin "fee for service" agreement. When the Appleton-based company needed a partner it reached an unique DIP/equity agreement with the Arlington-based carrier, which started a series of events where US Airways' affiliate partners had a lot of leverage to a point where they now have no leverage, and the new US Airways has all of the leverage in its "fee for service" and new Large RJ flying authorization.
This week the ALPA TCC is meeting with the company in Phoenix and a new Large RJ agreement could be reached in principal in the not-to-distant future that prevents Republic from flying any EMB-170 or EMB-190 flying for US Airways Express.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. I understand Republic is having a lot of difficulty obtaining an operating certificate.
robbedagain
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- Oct 13, 2003
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could they have the difficulty getting the certificate due to their mistakes?
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