Angry Egg Driver
Newbie
- Oct 26, 2004
- 5
- 0
I was just wondering Skidz, how you got a PPC without a job?Thought you had to be employed to get a PPC?
Low-timer Looking For Advice From You High-timers
- Thread starter Skidz
- Start date
Just so I understand You did some commercial flying for a company on an unpaid basis?
You wouldn't be a company employee so if anything happened how would you be looked upon by the insurance company?
Would you be covered by that Province's worker compensation plan in the event of an incident?
I know that every one is anxious to get the first job but make sure your personally protected as well
Lastly ,I know that your looking for any leads or advice to get that first job but I would expect that if a company is willing to USE you and your skills to do a little revenue flying for them on an unpaid basis then surely they will have you down as the next low timer to fill the next opening!!?
Good luck with you search and if your little job was a foot inthe door, don,t let it slip away without a wrestle
Merry Christmas
You wouldn't be a company employee so if anything happened how would you be looked upon by the insurance company?
Would you be covered by that Province's worker compensation plan in the event of an incident?
I know that every one is anxious to get the first job but make sure your personally protected as well
Lastly ,I know that your looking for any leads or advice to get that first job but I would expect that if a company is willing to USE you and your skills to do a little revenue flying for them on an unpaid basis then surely they will have you down as the next low timer to fill the next opening!!?
Good luck with you search and if your little job was a foot inthe door, don,t let it slip away without a wrestle
Merry Christmas
Excellent advice.
Definately concentrate on the western half of the country. Target mid sized to larger companies that have at least half a dozen machines. The companies with one or two machines usually fill one seat with the owner and the other with a buddy. The really large companies seem to be really difficult to break into, probably due to the contracts they have being so strict about pilot experience.
The co-jo logging positions seem to be plentiful... for the number of seats that are available... and there's a reason for that. The ramp at Helijet is a great way to network with companies in the lower main land that use their facilities, and I think there are oportunities for the non-rev repo flights they sometimes do.
Buying time in the states or somewhere else isn't all that bad. It's not as good as getting paid for it but... time is time. You're still getting some experience and stick time out of the deal.
Don't show up to the operator's place wearing a suit. Look respectable but not overdressed.
Hang around a bit after your interview or meeting with the CP or OPSMGR. BS with the guys on the hangar floor... engineers, pilots, whoever. Don't get in the way or be a nuisance, but get your name and face out there to the field guys. Like someone said, you'll bump into somebody down the road at some time and it'll be useful.
Some mountain flying may help out west but any time you decide to get doesn't have to be in a turbine. Techniques learned are just as valid in an R22 or R44. 4-5K feet in an R22 is just as useful as 10-12K in a 206.
I might stir something up here but... if and when you meet the requirements for and instructor rating and you figure it could be your thing (instructing, I mean) research that avenue. You'll hear things about low time instructors and such but it always seems to be an area where supply is outweighed by demand.
Good luck and happy hunting,
Definately concentrate on the western half of the country. Target mid sized to larger companies that have at least half a dozen machines. The companies with one or two machines usually fill one seat with the owner and the other with a buddy. The really large companies seem to be really difficult to break into, probably due to the contracts they have being so strict about pilot experience.
The co-jo logging positions seem to be plentiful... for the number of seats that are available... and there's a reason for that. The ramp at Helijet is a great way to network with companies in the lower main land that use their facilities, and I think there are oportunities for the non-rev repo flights they sometimes do.
Buying time in the states or somewhere else isn't all that bad. It's not as good as getting paid for it but... time is time. You're still getting some experience and stick time out of the deal.
Don't show up to the operator's place wearing a suit. Look respectable but not overdressed.
Hang around a bit after your interview or meeting with the CP or OPSMGR. BS with the guys on the hangar floor... engineers, pilots, whoever. Don't get in the way or be a nuisance, but get your name and face out there to the field guys. Like someone said, you'll bump into somebody down the road at some time and it'll be useful.
Some mountain flying may help out west but any time you decide to get doesn't have to be in a turbine. Techniques learned are just as valid in an R22 or R44. 4-5K feet in an R22 is just as useful as 10-12K in a 206.
I might stir something up here but... if and when you meet the requirements for and instructor rating and you figure it could be your thing (instructing, I mean) research that avenue. You'll hear things about low time instructors and such but it always seems to be an area where supply is outweighed by demand.
Good luck and happy hunting,
To All Low Time Pilots, part II
* Take all advise with a grain of salt!!! * (Some with more grains than others).
**** When someone that is going to be your instructor is really just a low time pilot doing it in order to build time, RUN FAR FAR AWAY!!! ****
Just My Two Cents
OT
P.S. yes, Rotrhd 1, you stirred something up here.
* Take all advise with a grain of salt!!! * (Some with more grains than others).
**** When someone that is going to be your instructor is really just a low time pilot doing it in order to build time, RUN FAR FAR AWAY!!! ****
Just My Two Cents
OT
P.S. yes, Rotrhd 1, you stirred something up here.
Skidz ----once you have attained that "vaunted" position you want so much, you may well stumble across companies that issue this memo:
"It is now and always has been, the policy of the Company to ensure that employees are well trained through out Special High Intensity Training (SH*T). We have given our employees more SH*T than any other Company in this area. If any employee feels he/she does not receive SH*T on the job, see your Supervisor immediately. Our management are especially trained to assure you that you will get all the SH*T you can stand."
"It is now and always has been, the policy of the Company to ensure that employees are well trained through out Special High Intensity Training (SH*T). We have given our employees more SH*T than any other Company in this area. If any employee feels he/she does not receive SH*T on the job, see your Supervisor immediately. Our management are especially trained to assure you that you will get all the SH*T you can stand."
i would be wary of taking any kind of instructing job even though it might be the ticket to gaining much needed hours. when i was in your shoes, i wouldn't do it then either. it might be moot, though, as i don't think that there are any schools in canada that do that. i don't want to be rude or mean spirited but if i was going to fork out the kind of dough that a CPL(H) requires these days i would be wary because you really want to get the best training that is available for that kind of cash. not to mention, if something bad happens on a flight, you might want someone who is comfortable and experienced there to help out while you are still on the inexperienced side.
if you like and are interested in getting all the SH*T you can handle, pm me, and i will tell you where you can go to get more SH*T than you probably deserve from a company that does hire low timers. i got my start there and got more than my fair share of SH*T and saw copious amounts of SH*T given to the other guys. if you like the idea of getting lots of SH*T this is the place for you. fortunately for me, along with all of the SH*T, i ended up with lots of hours and went on to other companies who were somewhat less generous in their application of SH*T. don't get me wrong, i am not complaining about having to deal with lots of SH*T at the beginning, after all, it ended up being a great start for me but after a while all of that SH*T started to stink. . best of luck to you, i remember very clearly what it was like to be in your boots. or shall we say SH*Tkickers.
if you like and are interested in getting all the SH*T you can handle, pm me, and i will tell you where you can go to get more SH*T than you probably deserve from a company that does hire low timers. i got my start there and got more than my fair share of SH*T and saw copious amounts of SH*T given to the other guys. if you like the idea of getting lots of SH*T this is the place for you. fortunately for me, along with all of the SH*T, i ended up with lots of hours and went on to other companies who were somewhat less generous in their application of SH*T. don't get me wrong, i am not complaining about having to deal with lots of SH*T at the beginning, after all, it ended up being a great start for me but after a while all of that SH*T started to stink.
. best of luck to you, i remember very clearly what it was like to be in your boots. or shall we say SH*Tkickers.cyclic monkey
Senior
- Jun 29, 2003
- 256
- 0
Hey guys, help me out here......
I'm having trouble with my photocopier, first there was a paper jam, then my pen got stuck in there......
I need some Special High Intensity Training on this thing.
Can I apply for the funding that is being discussed on the Instruction Forum from HRDC (Heaps of Readily Disposable Cash) to get more of the specialised SH*T mentioned above ??
I'm having trouble with my photocopier, first there was a paper jam, then my pen got stuck in there......
I need some Special High Intensity Training on this thing.
Can I apply for the funding that is being discussed on the Instruction Forum from HRDC (Heaps of Readily Disposable Cash) to get more of the specialised SH*T mentioned above ??
CM -----SH*T is not an HRDC progran. If you were much older, then a program called RAPE (Retire Aged Persons Early) is available to aviation employees only. This course is available as often as you wish and therefore you can be RAPED as much as you wish. Age does have it's advantages, you understand.
Low-timers.....here are some links to addresses, they aren't completely current, as our industry seems to change faster than Webmasters can keep up.
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/5094/index1.htm
http://www.h-a-c.ca/hacmain.html
(follow membership link to operator members)
OT
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/5094/index1.htm
http://www.h-a-c.ca/hacmain.html
(follow membership link to operator members)
OT
I didn't suggest that one should become an instructor to build time. If you think it might be your kind of thing then persue that avenue. It shouldn't be used just to build time.
Yes there's a lot of learning going on for the low time instructor too, and yes the level of training won't be that which you get from a high time instructor, but the training you'll get from a "high timer" with little instructing experience won't be that of one with lots of instructing time either.
Lower time guys starting out instructing may not have the skills developed of a high time guy but they also don't have the bad habits developed either. For every argument against there's an argument for. The guys arguing for have probably taken the road and the others may not know of which they speak.
There are excellent lower time and high time instructors and there are crappy lower time and high time instructors. All depends on your definition and the individual, not necessarily how much time they have.
My 2c also.
Yes there's a lot of learning going on for the low time instructor too, and yes the level of training won't be that which you get from a high time instructor, but the training you'll get from a "high timer" with little instructing experience won't be that of one with lots of instructing time either.
Lower time guys starting out instructing may not have the skills developed of a high time guy but they also don't have the bad habits developed either. For every argument against there's an argument for. The guys arguing for have probably taken the road and the others may not know of which they speak.
There are excellent lower time and high time instructors and there are crappy lower time and high time instructors. All depends on your definition and the individual, not necessarily how much time they have.
My 2c also.
true enough, rotrhd1, but that is something that is common in the US. i may have misunderstood your post. i'm just glad that i am not the only one who thinks it's abad idea. and you are also right when you say there are good and bad instructors no matter how much operational and/or instructional time they have. that is true for teachers of all stripes. and yes, i do acknowledge the curve.
ABQ Approach
Newbie
- Oct 14, 2003
- 8
- 0
My two cents: (and I don't say much)
Rtrhd - I agree with your viewpoint...there is good and bad to low time instructors. Shaggy - I would ask you what experience level your instructor(s) had when you trained.
Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 great low time instructors (approx. 300hrs PIC) that started teaching within the last 4 years that were not only excellent with students (with guidance and tight reins) but were great for keeping the business rolling in. I found that these individuals were far more enthusiastic in their role than the high time instructors employed.
If a CFI is careful with the lessons they let the new instructors teach, little harm will come to the students. Some new instructors may fly the first 100 hours of training without teaching autos. Circuits and intro flights may become boring for that first while, but it builds needed confidence in the instructor.
If you don't agree, oh well, as I said...my two cents.
Rtrhd - I agree with your viewpoint...there is good and bad to low time instructors. Shaggy - I would ask you what experience level your instructor(s) had when you trained.
Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 great low time instructors (approx. 300hrs PIC) that started teaching within the last 4 years that were not only excellent with students (with guidance and tight reins) but were great for keeping the business rolling in. I found that these individuals were far more enthusiastic in their role than the high time instructors employed.
If a CFI is careful with the lessons they let the new instructors teach, little harm will come to the students. Some new instructors may fly the first 100 hours of training without teaching autos. Circuits and intro flights may become boring for that first while, but it builds needed confidence in the instructor.
If you don't agree, oh well, as I said...my two cents.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #30
Over talk: Thanks for the links...
Cyclic monkey: far too much time on yer hands man...
Glad to see this thread is still alive and kicking SH*T. ;-)
If I can add my 2¢ to these last posts:
As far as my commercial flying for no remuneration goes, I didn't take the time to dicker about details such as workman's comp and such when the ops manager offered me the stick time (call it intuition). I do however have very good private health and disability insurance I contracted in my previous "life" (that I could never get now as a pilot). My understanding is that the operator had me added to their liability insurance though (now why would they do that ? ;-)...
Low-time instructors: The way this school works is they have two class 1 instructors and one class 2 instructor (all high-timers). These guys do endorsements, recurrent training, PPC/VPC, etc for regular pilots. They also do most emergency training, solo prep and pre-test stuff with student pilots and mentor the low-time instructors. In my case, I was my instructor's first student. He was 21 and had about 450 Hrs (300 PIC) and was a fresh class 4. I think he was more nervous than me on our first flight. I had a great time with him. He was competent, eager and enthusiastic. Others on the instructor program never get to a point where they have any students because they don't have what it takes to teach. The school just doesn't let 'em continue that route and finds other ways to bring them along until they can fly commercially. My first instructor now flys AS350s up north...
Some people are born to teach. I think a mix of experienced and inexpreienced instructors is fine, as long as they work in a safe and structured environment.
Although I have several years of instruction experience under my belt (military, workplace, sports and community college), I didn't take the instructor path for a couple of reasons: For one, I'm not comfortable teaching something unless I've already mastered it as close to perfection as possible and I didn't see that as being likely in 200-300 hours. And furthermore, I want to fly the damn helicopter, not watch someone else do it !
Cyclic monkey: far too much time on yer hands man...
Glad to see this thread is still alive and kicking SH*T. ;-)
If I can add my 2¢ to these last posts:
As far as my commercial flying for no remuneration goes, I didn't take the time to dicker about details such as workman's comp and such when the ops manager offered me the stick time (call it intuition). I do however have very good private health and disability insurance I contracted in my previous "life" (that I could never get now as a pilot). My understanding is that the operator had me added to their liability insurance though (now why would they do that ? ;-)...
Low-time instructors: The way this school works is they have two class 1 instructors and one class 2 instructor (all high-timers). These guys do endorsements, recurrent training, PPC/VPC, etc for regular pilots. They also do most emergency training, solo prep and pre-test stuff with student pilots and mentor the low-time instructors. In my case, I was my instructor's first student. He was 21 and had about 450 Hrs (300 PIC) and was a fresh class 4. I think he was more nervous than me on our first flight. I had a great time with him. He was competent, eager and enthusiastic. Others on the instructor program never get to a point where they have any students because they don't have what it takes to teach. The school just doesn't let 'em continue that route and finds other ways to bring them along until they can fly commercially. My first instructor now flys AS350s up north...
Some people are born to teach. I think a mix of experienced and inexpreienced instructors is fine, as long as they work in a safe and structured environment.
Although I have several years of instruction experience under my belt (military, workplace, sports and community college), I didn't take the instructor path for a couple of reasons: For one, I'm not comfortable teaching something unless I've already mastered it as close to perfection as possible and I didn't see that as being likely in 200-300 hours. And furthermore, I want to fly the damn helicopter, not watch someone else do it !
