Your right! There really is no leadership (at least at my level) by management. I don''t have any problem with them, and they''ve been helpful when I needed something, but esencially they let the inmates run the asylum. You really never see them and most of the time we like it like that. We just do our jobs. But this power vacume is what malcontents need to constantly work on other employees untill THEY start hating their job and Co. It is definitly time for some leadership!!
Let me get this straight?
- Thread starter Flyboy4u
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- Thread Starter
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- #17
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On 5/6/2003 8:09:40 AM AAObserver wrote:
According to your way of thinking, maybe it would be better if AMR kept the STL folks in place and laid off people like you who don''t want to move.
The STL folks are getting laid off because of the seniority rules in the union. You can''t have it both ways -- either you keep the seniority rules as they apply and be glad you''re not getting laid off, or get rid of the seniority policy and allow layoffs to come from somewhere other than the TWA so you don''t have to move to STL.
The issue you post about is just another example of why unions make no business sense whatsoever.
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This comment of yours makes no sense. Why should one be forced to a base without their consent and having to use their own cash to make a move? Especially since this individual has already setup a home at their current base, put kids in school, established a life and then told if they want to keep their job they have to come up with the thousands of dollars to make a move to another base. Thank god for Unions and their benefits of protecting employees from corporate greed. If a manager is forced to transfer to another city AA picks up the tab. Why shouldn''t it be the same for anyone else in the company? Many former Reno F/A''s who I know were forced out of their base at LAS and now live here in MIA. I was quoted that the tab AA paid for their transfer to MIA was somewhere around $23,000 per F/A to make that transfer happen. These are the same individuals who could easily be forced to STL. I cant''t imagine the amount of money that AA plans on spending on the transfers to STL, but also on the retraining of the F/A''s under the TWA certificate. I know I didn''t even make that in salary with AA last year. I am sure the APFA is aware of this and is probably laughing right now at what another stupid business decision AA is about to embark on. Again this goes to show that AA has no business plan to get us through this turmoil. Instead, they are going to take us to Chapter 11 anyways and the judge will sort it all out. If this company would just give it''s employees a chance they will make AA prosper again. This company just needs to start believing in their workers!On 5/6/2003 8:09:40 AM AAObserver wrote:
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On 5/5/2003 8
35 PM Flyboy4u wrote:
OK so hypothetically we actually furlough 5,000 flight attendants and then the company has to transfer 1,000 F/A''s to STL ( Actually less than that considering those who really have thier transfer into STL already will be granted ). The remaining transfers to STL will be forced meaning Article 18 of the APFA agreement will come into play. How can AA afford to do this? I can tell you if I am forced to STL it will cost them alot of money!!! Everyone who is junior that I am talking to plan on moving to STL, and It will cost a lot of cash...The next few weeks will be VERRY Interesting...
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On 5/5/2003 8
35 PM Flyboy4u wrote: OK so hypothetically we actually furlough 5,000 flight attendants and then the company has to transfer 1,000 F/A''s to STL ( Actually less than that considering those who really have thier transfer into STL already will be granted ). The remaining transfers to STL will be forced meaning Article 18 of the APFA agreement will come into play. How can AA afford to do this? I can tell you if I am forced to STL it will cost them alot of money!!! Everyone who is junior that I am talking to plan on moving to STL, and It will cost a lot of cash...The next few weeks will be VERRY Interesting...
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According to your way of thinking, maybe it would be better if AMR kept the STL folks in place and laid off people like you who don''t want to move.
The STL folks are getting laid off because of the seniority rules in the union. You can''t have it both ways -- either you keep the seniority rules as they apply and be glad you''re not getting laid off, or get rid of the seniority policy and allow layoffs to come from somewhere other than the TWA so you don''t have to move to STL.
The issue you post about is just another example of why unions make no business sense whatsoever.
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Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
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In my 10+ years in management, I have yet to see a move letter that authorized anywhere near $23K in expenses...
Looking at Bekins.Com, a move from LAS to MIA for a two bedroom with furnished living room came out between $4300 and $5200. Article 18 of the APFA contract used to allow up to 12,000 lbs per move (I assume it still does). Bekins shows a rate of $9751 for a move with that much stuff.
60 days of storage would run another couple hundred, but that's still nowhere near $23K.
AA has contracted rates with several moving companies, so the actual rate paid out would be less, not to mention that this all took place three years ago when shipping rates would have been even lower due to lower diesel fuel costs. In other words, whoever told you that the moves cost $23K is feeding you a line of something commonly found in blue water...
Sure, if people are forced into the base it will cost AA some money in moving expenses. The question is how much, and that will be driven by how many people actually move, as opposed to commute and hold out for a transfer back to where they actually want to live.
ORD has 2700 flight attendants, yet only about 1700 of them live in IL/IN/WI. LGA has 1200 flight attendants, but only 600 of them live in NY/NJ/CT/RI. JFK has 1700, but only about 800 live in NY/NJ/CT/RI. There are more NYC based FA's who live in FL than in NJ.
My guess is that you won't see a lot of people actually moving if they're forced to transfer. Sure, some will, but only those who plan on staying there for a while.
Looking at Bekins.Com, a move from LAS to MIA for a two bedroom with furnished living room came out between $4300 and $5200. Article 18 of the APFA contract used to allow up to 12,000 lbs per move (I assume it still does). Bekins shows a rate of $9751 for a move with that much stuff.
60 days of storage would run another couple hundred, but that's still nowhere near $23K.
AA has contracted rates with several moving companies, so the actual rate paid out would be less, not to mention that this all took place three years ago when shipping rates would have been even lower due to lower diesel fuel costs. In other words, whoever told you that the moves cost $23K is feeding you a line of something commonly found in blue water...
Sure, if people are forced into the base it will cost AA some money in moving expenses. The question is how much, and that will be driven by how many people actually move, as opposed to commute and hold out for a transfer back to where they actually want to live.
ORD has 2700 flight attendants, yet only about 1700 of them live in IL/IN/WI. LGA has 1200 flight attendants, but only 600 of them live in NY/NJ/CT/RI. JFK has 1700, but only about 800 live in NY/NJ/CT/RI. There are more NYC based FA's who live in FL than in NJ.
My guess is that you won't see a lot of people actually moving if they're forced to transfer. Sure, some will, but only those who plan on staying there for a while.
