JetBlue Snubs US for the French?

[b727fa]

Hey jbu320,

I think you got them all! LOL!

Insane, isn''t it?

 

[runway4]

ROTF, 727!!!!

Sounds like this is a perfect story for Fox News -- that "fair and balanced" purveyor of truth, justice, and the American way...

 

[audio-nut]

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On 4/30/2003 1025 AM eolesen wrote:

From NewsMax.Com

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you meant theonion.com right?

 

[BlueCrew]

Oh brother.

An interesting Op-Ed piece at best, but certainly not journalism. And I thought Fox News was bad. This is so slanted I couldn''t even stand on it. Unless we want to discuss how "un-american" any airline is, this hardly warrants a thoughtful discussion.

Next topic, please.

 

[GrahamAF]

Don't get pissed at Clinton, he had no idea that the world would end up this way. If you ignorant people remember in 2000, 9/11 didn't occur and no one really cared about the French as we were focusing on our portfolios.

Well thats more crazy Liberal Thinking...

PS- Bush's own political Advisor says the more educated tend to be more liberal. Interesting Huh

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/1/2003 1235 PM Airlines9 wrote:

Its funny how the article fails to mention that JetBlue Airways is one of a very few airlines, or companies, to be hiring Americans. Hundreds of layed off airline employees are being hired by JetBlue every few months. It is also one of the few airlines to make a profit.

"One of the conditions I put in the law was that the allocation of the slots would be based on the maximum contribution to America’s aviation system/infrastructure."

Taking people off the unemployment line and putting them to work seems to me to be a "maximum contribution to America's aviation." I think JBLU deserves more slots at JFK,BOS,& ORD.

#9

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Pure lunacy. There is a FINITE level of traffic in the NYC area. When a pax choses to take JBLU over U they are chosing the airline that utilizes FAR fewer employees per RPM at a SIGNIFICANTLY lower total labor package cost than the other airlines. The pax in NYC should be happy to know that JBlu is replacing his Queens neighbor's good union job with a pension, with a housewife in Utah. He'll be happy to know that the future Mx will not be done by highly trained ATP mechanics, but by unskilled laborers "supervised" by ATP's. He'll be happy to know that a vast Majority of the NYC based Flight crews can't afford to live in NYC and commute in. He'll also be happy to know that they other carriers will HAVE to match the costs of the lowest cost carrier, and will destroy the good paying jobs left in the industry. He'll likely see the home values in his blue collar neighborhood stagnate and tax rates go up due to the lower tax base. But at least he can watch Springer on the way to Florida. If your absurd contention were true, NY would NOT be leading the nation in lost aviation jobs.

 

[Daedalus]

busdrvr, your post makes it appear that jetBlue (with its 40+ airplanes) is on par with the last big asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs.

Do you really believe your own post? Or are you just trying to start a fight by flame baiting?

JetBlue is not the reason for your dire and fatalistic view of the airline business in the US. There are far bigger reasons than jetBlue for this mighty financial collapse. If this is an epiphany for you then you haven''t been keeping up with the news of the last 30 years. We live in a post-industrial economy that is inextricably tied to the global marketplace. Add to that quantum advances in technology and the widesread adoption of the internet and you only begin to scratch the surface of the problem you''re trying to portray here.

The consumer is both blessed and cursed by all these changes; and when you''ve been sitting at the very top of the economic heap like we have for the last century, there''s only one way to go when the rest of the world wants what you have. You could wave a magic wand and get rid of jetBlue tomorrow, but you wouldn''t change one iota on where this industry is going. You sound like a hardcore union guy; if so, you can look to the US steel and auto industries to see what your future has in store for you.

Am I defending what is happening?...No. But just recognizing the fact that these changes are far bigger than any of us can hope to hold off. Like my old mother said "life is just one big bone you have to swallow and then you die." Perhaps for some of us that metaphoric bone has another use.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/4/2003 9:59:08 AM Daedalus wrote:

busdrvr, your post makes it appear that jetBlue (with its 40+ airplanes) is on par with the last big asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs.

Do you really believe your own post? Or are you just trying to start a fight by flame baiting?

You sound like a hardcore union guy; if so, you can look to the US steel and auto industries to see what your future has in store for you.

Am I defending what is happening?...No. But just recognizing the fact that these changes are far bigger than any of us can hope to hold off. Like my old mother said "life is just one big bone you have to swallow and then you die." Perhaps for some of us that metaphoric bone has another use.

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Flame bait? Where is the "flame bait" What part of my post is inflamitory? Jet Blu has the distinction of having one of the lowest, if not THE LOWEST labor cost per seat mile Thier labor cost per seat mile is approx HALF low fare leader SWA''s. Is it not obvious that "productivity" simply means LESS EMPLOYEES or LOWER WAGE COSTS to accomplish the same task? I responded to the absurd post that JetBlu CREATED new jobs. In your post you pointed out the loss of jobs in the steel and auto industry as companies became more "PRODUCTIVE". In a purely "free market" idealistic world with a tight labor market, Jetblu would be considered a "good thing" Less employees flying airplanes, means more Employees availible to make widgets somewhere else. Of course the implication is with "excess" workers avail on the labor markets, and no union bargaining power to keep the price up...well you sound like you have at least a rudimentary understanding of freshman econ, what happens in a "free market" when you have an excess of a 100% perishable product? (labor can be considerd perishable since I can''t "save it up" for better times") As far as Jetblu being too small to make a diff, you must look at they way they utilize assest ina n attempt to be more "productive. They cram as many pax on an A320 as the typical carrier puts on a 757, and they utilize the jets more hours per day, thereby getting many more RPM''s per day out of it''s fleet than anybody else in the industry. Of course this means less jets required ("efficiency" and "productivity") and less jobs for Those laborers who actually build jets, freeing up the highly skilled ATP''s to make more widgets right?
Am I a left wing union crazy? Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am not a big fan of unskilled labor unions that coerce absurd levels of pay for bagging groceries. I do realize however, that to be a pilot or ATP, one must spend tens of thousands of dollars, if not over one hundred thousand dollars in real and oportunity costs to get the level of training and experience that the average Mech or pilot at a MAJOR has. Once that "money" is spent, you can''t ask for a refund, so many in the industry find themselves trying to recoup whatever they can from the investment rather than walking away. The Dr''s have the AMA and other associations to render some applicants as unworthy, thereby limiting supply. Unfortunately, airline workers have traditional relied on the pricing power, derived from imperfect information, of the hub airlines to help jusitify higher wages. Those days, for now appear to be gone. The majors WILL match the costs of the poor downtrodden LCC''s. they employees simply have too much invested not to. If you''ve read my posts in the past, you''d know I made the statement to the guys at NWA and SWA that they''d soon have industry leading pay. The question was how much they wanted that to be. They chose the lower amount, and we matched them (or undercut them).
Jetblu alone is NOT the problem. It is the combined effect of most of the LCCs who are individually small enough to expand and poach away a little revenue in the process. Realize that with airline''s your costs go down DRAMATICALLY as you grow, and go up DRAMATICALLY when you retract. Look at FRNT. They grew 17% YOY while the CEO bitterly complained to the press that there was simply "too much capacity" and that the big guys needed to cut back. of course his load factor is down YOY and his average ticket price is a whooping $108 vs $126 last year. Who is responsible for the glut? FRNT who grew 17%? ALK who added new service to DIA? Or was it UAL that has CUT SERVICE DRAMATICALLY? I don''t have the time or inclination to fully explain the particulars of game theory to the hobbyist flyer on this board who takes the occasional flilght to Kansas City and somehow thinks that makes him an expert on the economics of the industry and what fair industry wages should be, but I''m trusting you know a little more about the "big picture"

 

[Farley]

Busdrvr,
none of what you are experiencing is your own fault, none of it!

 

[Farley]

Sorry Busdrvr,
I missed the remark above about how you feel about unskilled labor unions. How incredibly revealing. You are every but the jack-ass I knew you to be. Thanks for demonstrating it so clearly.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/5/2003 121 PM Farley wrote:

Busdrvr,
none of what you are experiencing is your own fault, none of it!

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By getting good payrates for my pilot group and by default YOU. guilty as charged, and grow up please.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/5/2003 1:52:40 PM Farley wrote:

Sorry Busdrvr,
I missed the remark above about how you feel about unskilled labor unions. How incredibly revealing. You are every but the jack-ass I knew you to be. Thanks for demonstrating it so clearly.

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No Farley, you consistantly demostrate the intellectual quality of the typical cockpit crew member at Jblu as you are hardpressed to respond to any post in an intelligent manner, usually stooping to profanity and personal attacks. No wonder you never got hired by a major. BTW, I have been a member of an "unskilled labor" union in the past, and base my opinion on experience.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/8/2003 1241 PM Farley wrote:

You are what you are.
I''ll keep trying to grow up.
I''m just glad that you clarified your position about how you feel about unskilled labor. It says a lot about you.

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Yeah, comming from a guy at the LEAST UNIONIZED airline AND COMPANY in the entire US, that means a lot. What Union are YOU a member of? (frequent diners club at the "country buffet" doesn''t count)

 

[Farley]

You are what you are.
I''ll keep trying to grow up.
I''m just glad that you clarified your position about how you feel about unskilled labor. It says a lot about you.

 

[WNjetdoc]

busdrvr sez:>>>>>>>>"Flame bait? Where is the "flame bait" What part of my post is inflamitory? Jet Blu has the distinction of having one of the lowest, if not THE LOWEST labor cost per seat mile Thier labor cost per seat mile is approx HALF low fare leader SWA''s.">>>>>>>> jetdoc sez: I don''t usually get into correcting da busdrvr but I am laughing about his latest rant. SWA has a ASM of about 7.5 cents mile. If your statement is correct then JBLU would have a ASM of about 3.75 cents, is that correct? Actually JBLU''s ASM is more like 6.5 cents or so. Get your facts right before you post pal. I won''t even get into the rest of your post....Long YAWN!!!