JetBlue playing hard to get?

[BoeingBoy]

So, Jim, the US pilots would get a nice pay raise but I'm still not seeing how the AA pilots gain much over what they have today

I never said that the AA pilots would gain from a MOU between Parker and USAPA. What the proposed US/USAPA MOU does is form the basis for a transition from stand-alone US to merged US/AA. The AA pilots MOU with Parker already gives them better than they would have under abrogation.

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

I never said that the AA pilots would gain from a MOU between Parker and USAPA. What the proposed US/USAPA MOU does is form the basis for a transition from stand-alone US to merged US/AA. The AA pilots MOU with Parker already gives them better than they would have under abrogation.

Jim

but
1. is it industry average - esp. if UA rates turn out to be comparable to DL's?

and

2. how does a pay raise solve the seniority integration issues between US and HP?

 

[FA Mikey]

And what profit did AA "squeak" out?
I'm sure that upon exiting BK, they will be profitable. The problem is that they are going to do it on your back, but your to foolish to see that due to your extra large KoolAide.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AA also charge all of those same fees?

Will that be on the same back U already agreed to? The difference will be AA will be profitable above the ancillary fees.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Really, and do you forsee a merger with B6 saving any mtc jobs at all? US isn't the preferred partner because your leader, Mr, Horton won't be able to fill his wallet following BK if US takes control. You do realize that Tommy Boy does have interest in US, but wants to purchase them, and in that case EVERYONE will be stuck living under your BK contract for 6 years...
Think first, post second....

Great point.......so how about you take your own advice, and think.........of a single fact that displays a track record of Parker and company being mnore capable of running an airline? Or more capable of producing better labor relations? He is so good and that is why every other airline US Air has tried to partner with has told them to go pound sand. Parker is so good he still has multiple unions, covering the same work group IN THE SAME COMPANY.

As an outsider I find it hilarious the way all the different labor groups think they know how to run an airline best. They think they know how to do management's job, yet if management does anything that may involve middle amangement having any say how the employees do their jobs, those same employees are out bitching and moaning about how dare someone from management tell them how to do their jobs. Nice double-standard.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[FA Mikey]

Check with the FFers. They are in a line to keep AA as it is and not sink to the deplorable U conditions.

 

[wings396]

I wish them well.....

 

[A320 Driver]

According to the document linked below (which may not be accurate), the COC provisions would immediately increase the A330 captain rate to "more than $350/hr" and the A321 night rate to "more than $244/hr." Those numbers are practically double the current rates.

http://www.unbiasedf...lProvisions.pdf

To get COC, we would have to fight for it, litigate it, wait for an arbitrator's decision on it and even then, we would only get it until a joint contract was negotiated. Then, we go to the term sheet like everyone else. The lawyers said COC's lifespan would only be measured in months on a best case scenario. It's a poison pill only designed to threaten, not be put into effect.

Driver...

 

[eolesen]

Check with the FFers. They are in a line to keep AA as it is and not sink to the deplorable U conditions.

Not all of us. If US gets hold of AA, then I start flying on UA and WN. Right now, I fly on WN and AA. By then, their agents will have figured out their new check-in system and their pilots will have a contract...

 

[TWU informer]

Not all of us. If US gets hold of AA, then I start flying on UA and WN. Right now, I fly on WN and AA. By then, their agents will have figured out their new check-in system and their pilots will have a contract...

But what if AA gets a hold of US instead?

 

[BoeingBoy]

but
1. is it industry average - esp. if UA rates turn out to be comparable to DL's?

I have no idea what "industry average" is and you probably don't either. Who makes up the industry - just the 2-3 highest paying carriers or any outfit with an operating cert? I'd be more concerned with what the pay is than who it compares to. How many decades did the "real" airline's pilots look down their nose at WN pilots but look at what WN pays today.

and

2. how does a pay raise solve the seniority integration issues between US and HP?

Have I got to spoon feed you everything. The seniority integration mess was only possible because it was an ALPA process that was followed. So someone (Bradford) got the "bright" idea that dumping ALPA would result in the majority getting it's way. Now, 5+ years after the seniority award came out each side is sitting tight. Another merger will follow the M-B language, meaning federal law as to how to reach an integrated list. That eliminates the possibility of just forming a new union to get around the integrated list, even if the majority of US pilots disagree with the result.

Jim

 

[eolesen]

But what if AA gets a hold of US instead?

Hard to say. Flew on US this week, and have just booked AA to fly home. Throwing away half a ticket is worth it. It took 40 minutes for bags to show up, which is inexcusable.

 

[wings396]

E, just curious where this took place? Reason I ask is because I want to know if it was an outsourced station.

 

[FWAAA]

That language was superceded in one of the concessionary agreements. Change of control would force an immediate return to LOA 84 rates (I think that's the one) of about $175/hour for TOS A320-family captains. IIRC, that's about what the APA/Parker MOU calls for but I haven't seen every provision of that MOU.

Thanks. So "unbiasedfacts.org" doesn't deal in facts? Oh, the irony.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have no idea what "industry average" is and you probably don't either. Who makes up the industry - just the 2-3 highest paying carriers or any outfit with an operating cert? I'd be more concerned with what the pay is than who it compares to. How many decades did the "real" airline's pilots look down their nose at WN pilots but look at what WN pays today.



Have I got to spoon feed you everything. The seniority integration mess was only possible because it was an ALPA process that was followed. So someone (Bradford) got the "bright" idea that dumping ALPA would result in the majority getting it's way. Now, 5+ years after the seniority award came out each side is sitting tight. Another merger will follow the M-B language, meaning federal law as to how to reach an integrated list. That eliminates the possibility of just forming a new union to get around the integrated list, even if the majority of US pilots disagree with the result.

Jim

Jim,
the issue is not the rules. I get them.
What is far from certain is why several thousand pilots are going to decide to give up their fight and be happy just because they merge w/ someone else.....


ask the APA. I just keep hearing that they aren't willing to settle being in the bottom third.
Even if peer airlines are considered DL and UA - the tightest definition of peer airlines among AA, DL, UA, and US - I have yet to hear any proposal that would bring AA pilots up to DL and UA levels, again assuming the UA pilots achieve pay levels on par w/ DL.

 

[amt66]

Hard to say. Flew on US this week, and have just booked AA to fly home. Throwing away half a ticket is worth it. It took 40 minutes for bags to show up, which is inexcusable.

AA takes 45 to 1 hr so enjoy the wait!