Ivan Say's Run Silent, Run Deep

[delldude]

USN disputes, wonder why? Maybe still reeling from the Chinese fast attack that popped up undetected in the middle of a battle group a couple years ago?

http://www.dailymail...-red-faced.html

Two U.S. officials told the Free Beacon earlier this month that a nuclear-powered Akula attack submarine operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and was not spotted until after it left the waters.
One of the officials said the submarine was able to evade detection for a month.

Those sources continued to assert that there is sensitive intelligence information indicating the Russian submarine was able to sail undetected in the Gulf, activity that would likely embarrass the U.S. Navy. The sea service is responsible for protecting U.S. ballistic missile submarines from attack submarines, and in the past operated a network of underwater sensors designed to detect foreign submarine movements.

http://freebeacon.com/gulf-war/

Third times a torpedo.

 

[777 fixer]

USN disputes, wonder why? Maybe still reeling from the Chinese fast attack that popped up undetected in the middle of a battle group a couple years ago?


http://freebeacon.com/gulf-war/

Third times a torpedo.

Wonder when the Freebeacon is going to have an article comparing the Russian Submarine force to the US Navy's submarine force.

 

[delldude]

DMD if they keep getting the drop on you.
Remember who shot down John McCain.

 

[777 fixer]

DMD if they keep getting the drop on you.
Remember who shot down John McCain.

You know how many Akula's the Russians have, eight. Now look up how many Virginia Class attack boats we have. Then think of how many USN attack subs operate near Russian waters. Or how about how many carriers we have and how many they do. They have one and it's in drydock for the next five years.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20100406/158454665.html

 

[delldude]

You know how many Akula's the Russians have, eight. Now look up how many Virginia Class attack boats we have. Then think of how many USN attack subs operate near Russian waters. Or how about how many carriers we have and how many they do. They have one and it's in drydock for the next five years.

http://en.rian.ru/an.../158454665.html

Looks like an aircraft carrier to me.

Also looks like they got 14 Akula's and a bunch others in service.

Like Ivan has no way to negate our carriers?

 

[delldude]

People like you and the GOP seem not to understand some very important facts about the defense budget.

One, you could cut a $100 billion a year out of the defense budget and we would still spend more than all our potential adversaries combined. Two, even with those cuts there is no country in the world that could hope to beat us in a conventional war. Three, spending more does not address the real issue. The issue is the massive cost over runs in any number of DOD programs. Just look up the original cost estimates of programs like the F-35, V-22, LPD-17, LCS, F-22 etc, etc and see what they cost now.

Heard the interest we pay China on the money loaned to us more than pays for their entire defense budget.
Can that be true?

 

[777 fixer]

Looks like an aircraft carrier to me.

Also looks like they got 14 Akula's and a bunch others in service.

Like Ivan has no way to negate our carriers?

A carrier that is in the yards for the next five years and even when it back in service cannot match what a USN carrier can do.

Here's a list of Russian submarines. Note the ones that are in the yards or are being leased to other countries.

http://rusnavy.com/nowadays/strength/submarines/

Now here's a list of USN fast attack subs.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4100&tid=100&ct=4

 

[delldude]

A carrier that is in the yards for the next five years and even when it back in service cannot match what a USN carrier can do.

Here's a list of Russian submarines. Note the ones that are in the yards or are being leased to other countries.

http://rusnavy.com/n...gth/submarines/

Now here's a list of USN fast attack subs.

http://www.navy.mil/...00&tid=100&ct=4

I only see links to projects and such, no concrete totals.

Besides, all the high tech in the world is no match for a VC guy placing highly accurate ground fire from a rifle. Same goes for old clunker subs, Dude.

Sun Tsu's five points for Victory

1. He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be
victorious.
2. He who understands how to fight in accordance with the
strength of antagonistic forces will be victorious.
3. He whose ranks are united in purpose will be victorious.
4. He who is well prepared and lies in wait for an enemy who is
not well prepared will be victorious.

Ho Chi Min read that book.

 

[777 fixer]

I only see links to projects and such, no concrete totals.

Besides, all the high tech in the world is no match for a VC guy placing highly accurate ground fire from a rifle. Same goes for old clunker subs, Dude.



Ho Chi Min read that book.

That's what they call the various classes of ships/subs, projects.

I'm not sure what the reference to the VC is about. We are talking about the Russian Navy and the US Navy. Some old clunker sub just makes a nice target drone for a modern SSN.

Wonder if Sun Tsu had a chapter about a military that's a shadow of it's formal self that does not have a professional corps of enlisted personel and is overly dependant on it's officer ranks.

 

[delldude]

That's what they call the various classes of ships/subs, projects.

I'm not sure what the reference to the VC is about. We are talking about the Russian Navy and the US Navy. Some old clunker sub just makes a nice target drone for a modern SSN.

Wonder if Sun Tsu had a chapter about a military that's a shadow of it's formal self that does not have a professional corps of enlisted personel and is overly dependant on it's officer ranks.

Sun Tsu said never underestimate your adversary.

It's that simple even today, Dude.

 

[777 fixer]

Sun Tsu said never underestimate your adversary.

It's that simple even today, Dude.

!
You don't want to overestimate them either. And this what that Seantor from Texas who obviously knows &%$! #### about the Navy, and that fact check deficent web site seem to be doing.

 

[delldude]

!
You don't want to overestimate them either. And this what that Seantor from Texas who obviously knows &%$! #### about the Navy, and that fact check deficent web site seem to be doing.

You over look Bill Gertz and his sources. Obviously you never heard of Gertz.
How does one fact check what would be a confirmed leak via two independent different sources'?

By never underestimating your adversary, you already know your place in the scenario. By never underestimating following Sun Tsu's Art of War, you would never overestimate your capabilities.

 

[777 fixer]

You over look Bill Gertz and his sources. Obviously you never heard of Gertz.
How does one fact check what would be a confirmed leak via two independent different sources'?

By never underestimating your adversary, you already know your place in the scenario. By never underestimating following Sun Tsu's Art of War, you would never overestimate your capabilities.

Bill Gertz, is'nt this the same guy who said Russian bombers entered restricted US airspace when in reality they entered an ADIZ in international airspace?

The Cold War is over, we are no longer on hair trigger alert waitin for swarms of Soviet subs to pour through the Denmark Straits. Because they no longer exist.

 

[delldude]

Bill Gertz, is'nt this the same guy who said Russian bombers entered restricted US airspace when in reality they entered an ADIZ in international airspace?

The Cold War is over, we are no longer on hair trigger alert waitin for swarms of Soviet subs to pour through the Denmark Straits. Because they no longer exist.

Pearl Harbor? 911??

No....not what he said.

BY: Bill Gertz
July 19, 2012 5:00 am
Recent incursions into U.S. air defense zones by Russian nuclear bombers earlier this month were part of exercises that violated provisions of the 2010 New START treaty, according to U.S. officials.

During the exercises, two Tu-95MS Bear H bombers armed with cruise missiles flew into the 200-mile air defense zone near Alaska, prompting U.S. F-15 and Canadian CF-18 jets to intercept the bombers.

After the late-June bomber incursion, two more Russian Tu-95s entered the air defense zone near California on July 4 in what defense officials said was an unprecedented air intrusion not seen since the days of the Soviet Union.
The bombers flew very close to the U.S. West Coast, the officials said.

 

[777 fixer]

From the article.

The submarine incursion followed two Russian strategic bomber incursions into restricted U.S. air space in June and July.

I don't know if Pearl Harbor and 9-11 are the best examples. At Pearl Harbor we were up against a battle hardened enemey whose forces were superior to ours. Can't really say that about the Russian Navy. Not with the manpower and material issues they have. Then there were the racial attitudes of the day, little yellow men with bad eyes could never get the drop on us. Along with having no means to gather intelligence from other countries.

9-11, intelligence failure pure and simple. The size of the military or it's budget had nothing to do with it.