Is receive and dispatch gone, or utility contracted out. Either/Or?, can''t be Both/And

[AP Tech]

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On 11/15/2002 4:32:36 PM sdavis29 wrote:

that may be true, but speaking from experience i can tell you that there were many times especially around shift change where there was no mechanic to be found..ramp agts and sometimes even customer sevice in the jetway would guide in the plane. i am sure that any ramper or pilot who reads these can attest to that..i also know that ops has had to radio more than once that pushback is needed at such and such gate..rampers all already at the plane..close it up and push
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Could it be that perhaps due to short staffing that the mechanic assigned to the float was working on another broken aircraft? There was a problem during shift changes but now with the 30min overlap there is no excuse. Many times we have been working on a problem that requires more than one mechanic and the aircraft required a push a few gates down but a person can only do one job at a time. Sounds like a staffing problem to me? Observe Delta A/C servicing do a pushback some time...they use 4 people!

 

[sdavis29]

a lot of this was prior to any of the current situations, there was an abundance of mechs..9 terminators plus hangar. seems to have gotten a little better as now they are trying to justify the jobs and always looking busy..this debate could go on forever..just depends which job you hold(or had)

 

[pitguy]

quoted from above-----that may be true, but speaking from experience i can tell you that there were many times especially around shift change where there was no mechanic to be found..ramp agts and sometimes even customer sevice in the jetway would guide in the plane. i am sure that any ramper or pilot who reads these can attest to that..i also know that ops has had to radio more than once that pushback is needed at such and such gate..rampers all already at the plane..close it up and push


---I can tell you in PIT some times it has just been two mechanics assigned to receive and dispatch and there was no others assigned to help. This is for all of PIT. You would run your tail off and could not keep up. Normally there is more than two assigned to receipt and dispatch, but at times there are only a few assigned resulting in delays.---

***I was told we mechanics took an extra hit on our recent concessions to protect receive and push back and utility jobs. Give back the money and you can have the jobs, but not both.***


Think what you want, but a mechanic job is 'not' a job in which you can hire some one off the street and give them a few weeks training and tell them to make a career out of it.

 

[Boomer]

During an earlier thread over whether or not the AMTs should accept wage reductions, it was mentioned that U had priced the value of R&D at $2/hr. If the IAM wants you to give up that function and lay off a large number of mechanics, are they going to make up that figure?

 

[LDKIAM]

Sabre, the IAM is NOT talking with the company about anything, so I do not know where you are getting your information but you are 110% wrong, two members of the negotiating commitee were in CLT yesterday and they emfactily stated the company has not approached us nor are they talking to the IAM Mechanic and Related about concessions.[BR][BR]The only labor group that the company has approached for further relief is the pilots, the M&R AGC's were in DCA Tuesday meeting with the company to clarify the mistakes the company made in printing articles 21 and 22. The company did not mention nor bring up anything on further concessions. [BR][BR]I believe they know they outcome if they ask, they can go pound sand. I just love how all you speculate on what we are gonna give up next. If the company can't make it on what all groups just gave up then they need to close the doors.[BR][BR]Concessions have never saved an airline before, TWA, Eastern and Pan Am, all gone, the concessions employees gave never saved them.

 

[Old Dog]

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On 11/15/2002 3:34:07 PM UAL777flyer wrote:

Mechanics doing R & D was born of the regulated era, when airlines passed along their costs to the consumer. That is where all the featherbedding comes from. Unions knew they could get away with inflating their contracts with such inefficiency (to fatten the rolls, so to speak), because airline managements would simply petition the CAB (prior to DOT) for fare increases to cover it. That was how the game was played.
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Sorry flyer, you've always struck me as pretty knowledgeable but are off on this one.... The picture of Patterson or Keck nodding their heads in agreement to anything the unions wanted and passing the cost on to the passenger via the CAB (who could of course hardly wait to stamp approval on anything we wanted) is a little too much for me. No I am not a Mechanic, just a second-generation UAL'er wondering how Urban Legends are born.
Also the idea of the IAM sitting around dreaming up goofy jobs just to fatten the rolls is ludicrous.... Prop planes and the early jets were maintenance hogs, we needed every Mechanic we had.... we may not need as many now but don't presume the Management of that era were fools.

 

[wings396]

As far as DL goes, only the driver of the pushback tractor is mtc. the rest including the one that parks the a/c are all ramp.

 

[N786P]

I bet somebodys blood psi getting high on this one...better grab the baby asprins.

 

[Twinotter]

When i started in 1972 on the ramp in Phl, We parked the planes and the fuelers (Atlantic Aviation) pushed the planes back.....

 

[hydim]

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On 11/16/2002 521 AM wings396 wrote:

As far as DL goes, only the driver of the pushback tractor is mtc. the rest including the one that parks the a/c are all ramp.
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Delta AMTs do not do pushbacks or de-icing. We lost those during the 7.5 cutbacks of the mid 90s. We took a big hit on manpower then. Looking back on it now, it was a terrible waste of talent and the change was inevitable. We all thought that it would cause a lot of delays, but it didn't. There were some at first, but soon pilots and flight attendants started to become more alert to common delay drivers like ****pit lights, low o2, oil servicing. Checking these items when they arrived at the aircraft instead of waiting until doing the pushback checklist.

 

[N513AU]

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On 11/15/2002 6:46:11 PM pitguy wrote:

quoted from above-----"that may be true, but speaking from experience i can tell you that there were many times especially around shift change where there was no mechanic to be found..ramp agts and sometimes even customer sevice in the jetway would guide in the plane. i am sure that any ramper or pilot who reads these can attest to that..i also know that ops has had to radio more than once that pushback is needed at such and such gate..rampers all already at the plane..close it up and push"


---I can tell you in PIT some times it has just been two mechanics assigned to receive and dispatch and there was no others assigned to help. This is for all of PIT. You would run your tail off and could not keep up. Normally there is more than two assigned to receipt and dispatch, but at times there are only a few assigned resulting in delays.---

***I was told we mechanics took an extra hit on our recent concessions to protect receive and push back and utility jobs. Give back the money and you can have the jobs, but not both.***


"""Think what you want, but a mechanic job is 'not' a job in which you can hire some one off the street and give them a few weeks training and tell them to make a career out of it."""

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You gave them an inch and they took a mile. How many times did many of us have to say that Dave wasn't going to stop at round one? How labor friendly is Dave now? About as labor friendly as some 1930s strike breakers armed with baseball bats and hammers outside of a mill.

However, this isn't entirely Dave's fault. The scabs out there are the contract maintenance facilities that do airline work at welfare prices. The scabs are the unions that let pushbacks be done by anyone else in the first place. Management is out for our jobs, like the grim reaper with his bloody scathe. However, it doesn't help when the union and others in your profession sell out.

Have any of you been following the fireman's strike in the UK? My friends, that is what trade unionism should be! SHUT IT DOWN. If they won't play ball, we SHUT IT DOWN. It is time that the employees of the airline industry SHUT IT DOWN until wages are sensible and airlines can actually stand a chance in hell of making a profit. It doesn't matter if you work for US Airways, Delta, United, Northwest, American or whoever - our management is using this economic recession to get what they wanted. What we give back to save our jobs and get the company through these hard times will NEVER BE REPAID. WE WILL NEVER GET BACK WHAT GROUND WE HAVE GIVEN!!!! When times get good again, the executives will cash out and they'll be rolling in cash that came from us.

Remember the early 1990s? Remember how we had to give back to save USAir? When times got good where did the money go? The routes dissappeared, stations closed, maintenance bases were shuttered, and some groups never got their temporary cuts reinstated (customer service, the most screwed work group in our company - and that's from a mech.) WHERE DID IT GO? I propose you check the wine cellar of a certain Steven Wolf. I propose you check his garage, I think I heard of a Jaguar or two, or maybe three, four or five in there?!

About a year ago, Aviation Week had a very interesting little blurb. Airline wages have been deflationary since deregulation. In other words, for the economically-challenged, adjusted for inflation, WE ARE MAKING LESS MONEY THAN WE DID TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO. There is one exception - airline executive managment. Their compensation has skyrocketed exponetially. I wish I had the article and the figures here to quote.

My point being is, what we give back we never get back. When times get good again, the good fortune stays near the top. I gave up money, now I gave up my job. Why? Because SOME TRAITOR TO MY PROFESSION decided that he wasn't worth very much money. Thank you, I appreciate it. REMEMBER, SHUT IT DOWN!!!!

 

[LDKIAM]

To Pineybob,

First I would have a planning department that would actually get the parts to the correct city for an airplane to be fixed, that would save millions in inventory and lost man hours because of parts that never get there.

Two, I would utilize my assets to send the parts instead of wasting millions on trucking things to where they have to go.

Third, I would make the workers work instead of standing around and doing nothing, a plane in the hangar does not make money until it starts flying.

Fourth, I would make the flight crews fly there hours instead of having them fly 47 hours and get paid for 60.

Fifth, I would utilize my aircraft and fly more. Add long haul flights from BOS to LAX, SFO. JFK to LAX, SFO. IAD to LAX, SFO. Start regional jet flying up and down the west coast to feed the transcon traffic and start flights from the west coast to Asia, with those flights originating in the east. Add more european flights to the major business centers, like Geneva, Zurich, Athens and anyother major europeon city we do not fly to.

I know there numerous things in the maintenance department that could save them money if they just listened to the employees who do the work. United, American and Northwest make millions on bringing other airlines work in and US needs to do the same.

I bet others on this board who work inflight, flight crews, customer service and ramp could come up with many ideas also.

Reinstitute Ideas that Fly, could save the company millions once again.

 

[LDKIAM]

To 513AU, Wolf did not come to US Air until 1996, Schofield was in charge of US Air when the pilots in 1992 accepted concessions then the company screwed all the non-union employees.

Those of us in Maintenance went on strike in October of 1992 for five days in order to take concessions on our terms and not theirs and keep our scope language. We accepted a 3.5% pay cut, stock options for $15 a share and we got double our paycut back on profit sharing over the two year period after, the paycuts were for one year.

Get your facts straight.

 

[pitmech]

What facts doesn't he have straight? Times never got good under Schofield. Things recovered under W&G, whether that qualifies as the good times is a stretch. W&G were extemely well compensated in base salary and bonuses for the results they achieved. Maybe the board based their pay on certain forward looking achievements like selling the airline. [BR][BR]Concessions on our own terms? Is that some kind of new IAM doublespeak? As I recall those days, we came back for the same package we struck over with a couple changes to the language here and there. So we lost a week's wages to prove to the company that our pain is their pain. Double our pay back? Those shares granted under the profit sharing program are now or soon will be worthless. Did the company let anybody sell theirs? Some people did make a little money on the stock options if they timed it right. But those of us who were junior at the time lost money on the snap back issue which is now water long under the bridge.

 

[LDKIAM]

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On 11/17/2002 11:52:11 AM pitmech wrote:

What facts doesn't he have straight? Times never got good under Schofield. Things recovered under W&G, whether that qualifies as the good times is a stretch. W&G were extemely well compensated in base salary and bonuses for the "results" they achieved. Maybe the board based their pay on certain forward looking achievements like selling the airline.

Concessions on our own terms? Is that some kind of new IAM doublespeak? As I recall those days, we came back for the same package we struck over with a couple changes to the language here and there. So we lost a week's wages to prove to the company that our pain is their pain. Double our pay back? Those shares granted under the profit sharing program are now or soon will be worthless. Did the company let anybody sell theirs? Some people did make a little money on the stock options if they timed it right. But those of us who were junior at the time lost money on the snap back issue which is now water long under the bridge.
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Yes we had to sell our shares within 12 months of the granting and we got 200% back on the exact dollar amount for the 3.5% givebacks for every hour worked. And things we ok under Butch for a short time otherwise we would not have gotten the 200% return via profit sharing, you know you have to make money to have a profit.