IAM resores the 5% wage deferral

[LavMan]

AOG, why have you not attended any union meetings or vote in elections or hold an office if you want change.

It is so easy for people to sit on the sidelines and point fingers, god forbid they can take responsiblity for the own apathy.

The union is not five US AGCs it is every member, look in the mirror and blame that union member, not the people who are actually trying to help.

 

[delldude]

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On 7/29/2003 5:37:15 PM AOG-N-IT wrote:

Dave and Dave's reasons for the give-back were driven by sound union pressure (not ours) and the obvious declines in employee morale over these issues.
why is it sound union pressure and not ours?union is only as good as its membership AOG.

The issue of whom represents me at this point is moot. I see one being no actual better than the other.
does this mmean you actualy don't give a damn?i took many hits contractually to give you this right,pal, The issue should be whom can pin USAirways into not out-sourcing "Our Work" on these damned Airbus Aircraft we blundered into.

This "Hot Button" issue has a time line for many of us.
The time to pin this company on this language is NOW...not after we change ships in the middle of the stream , and then still wait and see what happens?.

Ask yourself...did AMFA save jobs at UA or NW? and has the IAM protected us from much of anything , here at U ? The picture is clear to me...both are equally toothless and useless. It's the culture and leadership within the unions upper levels that are askew.

Pressure your current union leaders to do it right...and do it right now in regards to insuring our work with our aircraft.
why don't you do the pressuring or is it that you're busy this weekend?.kert
Beyond that? the bread bakers union can represent us..and it won't make a dimes worth of difference to many later.
again you should watch your statements.......YOU are YOUR union...not anybody else!
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[AOG-N-IT]

Lavman,
You are such a biased clown...trying to reach you with logic , is beyond pointless.

I might as well try to defend Chip on the UA board as attempt to get to you in real world terms.

The IAM is a mess...and AMFA is no better. I was in great shape as an "At will" employee with U...and being "Shang Hai'ed" into this quagmire did me no particular favors.

Screw your next reply about still having a job , regardless of the relocation from CLT to PIT and then back to CLT again within 7 months. I would have had a job at home in CLT without the GD IAM !! ..as would have three to four other class acts within our work group.

Thanks to the IAM dragging us into your/thier mess , we have lost talent that was not looking for happy with monday thru friday office hour gigs , or psuedo protection from mindless work rules.

People whom were chosen for certain talents and abilities are now doing less productive things elsewhere.

So before you spout your mindless/robotic "Union Crap" about getting involved , remember that most were happy without your toothless union getting involved with our lives and professions to begin with.

Having worked in both CLT , PIT and encounterd those from TPA whom were most impacted by the IAM's takeover of our jobs..I can say with certainty , that nobody is happy..and all are the poorer or worse for thier involvement in our professions.


Remember this my friend , We did not start as Utility People , Ramp Agents or Lav Dumpers...and that is not said to knock those that whom have. We that were hired for certain talents and abilities , have a real hard time with being lumped into a catagory against our expressed will.

For the slower readers ..and those whom don't know me directly. This job is about the "Airplanes" and making a buck with those "Airplanes". I have no desire for BS politics..."Union Shinanigans" or anything else.

Give me a schedule..Give me a task...and make sure my check clears at 1800 on thursday..beyond that, AOG will represent himself nicely , Thank You !!!

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/30/2003 12:03:02 AM LavMan wrote:


AOG, why have you not attended any union meetings or vote in elections or hold an office if you want change.

It is so easy for people to sit on the sidelines and point fingers, god forbid they can take responsiblity for the own apathy.

The union is not five US AGCs it is every member, look in the mirror and blame that union member, not the people who are actually trying to help.

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I'm not sure of your structure but as an officer of TWU Local 562 I can tell you that our structure inhibits change.
We are often told the same things, "become involved if you want change" when in fact it means "get your peice of the action and shut up".
I've been told that if I dont support the policies of unelected, appointed officials above me that I should resign.
In our union members only have control on the Local level. We do not control the contract, an appointed ATD director does that. He can put in a new contract and change terms without a vote of the membership and he cant be voted out by those members-ever.
I've often heard Sonny Hall the boss of the TWU say "We have to put our differences behind us and fight as one team". It sounds good but as he collects his hundreds of thousands of dollars per year he is telling us to surrender everything that was gained over the last 50 years away. With his level of income I have to wonder "What team is he on? The workers or the Bosses?" He lives more like the bosses than the workers. If he is on our side why is he agreeing that we should bear the entire burden for the industries difficulties? Shouldnt he be fighting for us instead of telling us to surrender? The TWU only organized one picket line during this entire ordeal, a picket in support of government handouts to the airline! Do you see any similarities with your union? My guess is "yes".
I have no doubt that there are many AGCs that are trying to do well for the members.
I have no doubt that they are fustrated by the apathy that they witness.
The question is, do you think that by simply going to meetings or even running for office that major changes will take place? The fact is if criticism is discouraged then how will "participation" bring about the changes that we all need? The fact is that the structure of unionism in our industry hurts airline workers. Change is neccisary and those at the top will do everything they can to prevent it. Since they have built such an effective defense against change from within, external change is your best bet. Even if you are successful, painting the structure a different color will not give us the desired result. The structure is faulty.
The structure of unionism in this industry, where people who do the same jobs are represented by different unions, weakens the power of each union. The unions end up having more at stake in supporting individual companies than raising the standards of their members. The defective nature of this structure is further deformed by the policy of no-raiding between unions. Members are denied the advantages of competing organizations, in fact the companies benifit as the organizations end up competing with each other by trying to adopt policies that help the company instead of raising the standards of their members. Union leaders who do not have to face membership elections can do that when the organization faces no competition for representation.
One thing is, or at least should be clear to every worker in this industry. That when the chips were down and we needed them the most our unions failed us, utterly and completely.
The structure is faulty. To those in control, it suits their needs. They still collect six figure salaries along with tons of other perks. It does not suit our needs. We can no longer afford to fund these bloated, wasteful, corrupt, ineffective institutions. We must rebuild from the bottom up a structure that unites all of us. A structure that puts the members first in actions not just words. We need to have unions where their primary focus is upon us and that are accountable to us.
I would suggest that you join in the effort to unite all airline workers within your craft into one union. That once this process is complete to have that union form strong alliances with all the other airline industry specific unions to further enhance our collective power. That these organizations all share facilities to maximize the resorces available to furthering the members interests.
Its time to start anew. In fact its way past time. The organizations that we relied upon have failed us. Its time for a change.

 

[Smartest Loser]

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On 7/29/2003 339 PM PITbull wrote:

Fact is Itrade was right...

We had a "pre tax loss" of $154 million. Dave could have said no deferral return, according our language it had to be a "pre tax" gain. So, Dave did make a decision to give it back, when he didn't have to.

Dr. Bronner, IMO, had a lot to do with this, and all the labor unrest associated with taking this money from the employees. POINT BEING...the woes of U does not have anything to do with a war effect. It has to do with the general weak economy from 9/11, and a mangement team that thinks they are operating CO express instead of a major mainline carrier.

Have a feeling that is why he is shrinking us. That is all Dave knows..."think small".

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Pitbull,

If you listened (as I did) to the quarterly earnings report on the internet you would have heard something very important… “Dave did say that exact thing...†When asked by an investor what he was gonna do about the 5% wage deferral he stated: “Our agreements state a “PERTAX†profit. So, that will stay in placeâ€.

So what happened between 1:45pm & 4pm to change Dave’s mind..?? I bet he heard the airline coming to a
screeching halt…!! No Unions....No Investors…Just the backlash of employee pressure & outrage.

The company has been GIVEN, FREE, NO COST, DOESN’T HAVE TO BE REPAID almost a half a Billion Dollars by the government. Mr. Bonner is waiting in the wings with more you can bet…Just what are they doing with all that money…???

Henceforth lays the question I want an answer to. (And don’t say RJ’s)..!!

If you listend

 

[jetmechline]

[SIZE= 9pt]Roadtrip wrote:[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 9pt]You have got to be kidding me! Bottom line the unions had nothing to do with the employees getting back the 5 percent.[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 9pt]If the company had not turned a profit "Labor Friendly Dave" would have kept the money for as long as he could.[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 9pt]Bottom line all the unions agreeded to it in CONTRACT writing![/SIZE]

[SIZE= 9pt]The nerve of the IAM to be little the workers in making them think they are that stupid and blind to see the real reasons! I can clearly see why all the defections from that sham of a union are taking place.[/SIZE]
Get your motor running.........
[SIZE= 10pt]**********************************************************************
****************************************[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]This was posted on THE-MECHANIC web site [color=" #0080ff"]10 days before U S Airways[/color] announced they were giving back the 5%. It was in response to the IAM requesting a meeting with Dave Siegel to discuss dropping the 5% "FORCE MAJEURE". [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]Received: 07/18/03 09:16:15 EDT[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt]
Name: SCREWED@U
E-Mail: [color=" #333300"]iamPOW@pay cuts for payoffs/IAM.COM[/color]
Employer: U
Location: PITT
Message:[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]Mr. David Siegel
President and CEO
US Airways, Inc.
2345 Crystal Drive
Arlington, VA 22227

Dear David:
We are writing concerning the 5% pay deferral of base pay implemented for all employees as a result of the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

We believe the criteria for continuance of the pay deferral is questionable.
As announced by President Bush, the invasion of Iraq has concluded and the U.S. troops are now an occupying force. In addition on May 6, 2003, US Airways Group, Inc. reported a net income for the first quarter of 2003 at $1.63 billion.

As a result of these and other issues, we are requesting to meet and confer with the Company regarding the discontinuance of the 5% pay deferral.
Your prompt response to a mutually agreeable date to begin dialogue regarding this issue would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
S.R. (Randy) Canale Scotty Ford
President/Directing General President/Directing General
Chairman Chairman
District 141 – IAMAW District 141-M IAMAW
************************************************************


[color=" blue"]FACT: CWA, ALPA and the Flight attendants unions at U S Airways have been requesting the end of the 5% “FORCE MAJEURE†pay deferral since early June!

QUESTION: Why have the “FIGHTING MACHINIST “ waited until now to come out against this rip-off?

ANSWER: Labor friendly “Dave Siegel†has informed his IAM stooges, Canale and Ford, that he will announce the end of the 5% pay deferral “SOONâ€.

RESULT: The “FARTING MACHINIST†will continue to deceive its members at U S Airways; they will boast that their efforts ended this hardship.

WHAT A PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A UNION THESE LOSERS ARE!!!!!!![/color][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]10 DAYS LATER THE COMPANY AND THEIR TOY UNION PUT OUT THESE TWO LETTERS[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 18pt]US Airways drops 5% wartime pay cut[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]Tuesday, July 29, 2003[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]By Frank Reeves[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt]
Post-Gazette Staff Writer [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]US Airways[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt], confronting a frustrated work force and posting its second consecutive quarter with a net profit, yesterday rescinded the 5 percent across-the-board wage cut it imposed at the beginning of the Iraq war. [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]The announcement came a short while after the airline said that, thanks to a big government check, it earned $13 million during the April-June quarter, compared with a loss of $248 million a year ago.[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$ [/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]THE IAM TAKES CREDIT JUST AS PREDICTED ON 7/18/2003 POSTED ABOVE[/SIZE][SIZE= 10pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]Carrier Agrees to Union Demands For Wage Snap-Back[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]In response to our July 26, 2003 letter to David Siegel, US Airways and the Machinists Union have been discussing the termination of the 5 percent wage deferral enacted by US Airways upon the commencement of the war in Iraq.

Your support and sacrifice has enabled US Airways to emerge from bankruptcy and survive the effects of war. As US Airways’ pre-tax profits improved, the IAM argued that further wage deferrals were unnecessary and demanded the carrier begin repayment of the loan provided by our members.

We are pleased to advise you that after extensive discussions today with the IAM, US Airways has agreed to snap-back the 5 percent wage deferral, and begin repayment of deferred wages in accordance with the collective bargaining agreements.

Thank you for your continued support.
Sincerely,[/SIZE]
[SIZE= 10pt]

[/SIZE]

 

[PITbull]

What has been reported through the "news wires" is that U had a "pre tax" loss of $154 million.

The only person who is saying we NOW have a "pre tax" gain is Dave himself.
I find it interesting the contradiction, and specifically, that Dave does not say how much the "pre tax" gain he cites is.

Don't you?

My theory, is that he must of had huge pressure from someone (Board) to make that decision that contridicts what is actually reported to the FCC. Unless the one time exclusions were minused out in order for his decision to reflect our contract language "snap back".

An as sure as I sit here today, if there was no pressure from labor with mighty fervor and persistance...you know damn well we would have never gotten it back until 18 months.

Seem like folks are hesitant to give most of the credit to all of the labor coalition who magnified the issue like there was no tomorrow. Management hates when we are all together on anything. That's my take.

 

[PITbull]

Smartest loser,

I did listen, and I fired out an e-mail that would make your hair stand up. I sent it to the entire labor coalition. We were ready to leaflet and picket as AFA the sh- - out of this mangement. We had received our applications again for permits. AFA and CWA.

I knew in that morning that Dave was not going to give it back. And it would have been a "full blown" campaign. You may not think the unions pressure did anything cause that suits your mind, but rest assured, the PRESSURE was bigger than you think because union leaders have the ability to organize their group to do a major campaign to the public and media, specifically what AFA resolution stated. No joke. Having Labor unrest in a corporation hurts anybody's stock price.

U has reported over $2 billion in cash. But keep in mind they still have investors and an ATSB loan outstanding and the business plan of RJ purchases. You don't want to believe this but the "small jet" flying is the main business plan component. As long as they can show debt, take their one time charges, they will show no profit. As time goes on, however, it will be harder and harder for them to show no profit. Presently, the CEO and the senior officers have been capped on their bonsuses, and wages as this was part of their concession all through 2004. So, when that passes, their will be profits shown coming out of the ying/yang. And the Execs and investors will reap the benefits.

For us as labor, we have to wait until 2009. Hopefully, the company won't conveniently show losses, in order to stifle the negotiation process.
This is when every union should have a "defense fund" funded. If they are profiting, then our "share" will have to be either negotiated or fought. After all, the airline exists because of the sacrifices made by all employees; not just some.

 

[PITbull]

Bob Owens,

Your thread is very insightful and I believe quite true in todays unions that have such a structure that you cite. Here on AFA property, you must be an employee of an airline. States in our constitution. We have made only one exception in the Interantional through a vote by the Board to allow an individual who had lost his job at Towers Air becuase of their liquidatiion.

Our structure is such, that it is quite easy to get rid of your local officers and the International officers. Only thing, it cost alot to get rid of the International officers because of the expense to bring the 67 Presidents to gether to meet for a "recall". It is all within the Constitution. Some organizations must take steps, write agneda items to change their constitution, OR you are right, maybe easier to get rid of that organization.

I will say, for AFA, we are THE only flight attendant only union in the world. My fear of affiliation with CWA is the dilution of the issues that would be a onsequence of this merger. I think the idea of union for one profession, such as ours, and like the state workers, or teachers federation, is the real way to go.

Un fortunately, because of the unforseen furloughs that took place after 9/11 and the restructuring of the airline industry, we have failed to "stand alone". We still have a good deal of cash in our reserves, but that won't last forever. Therfore, we can't continue to stand alone as we won't have enough money to even organize small carriers to build our organization again.

CWA, though has infused much money into AFA on a "loan" type deal, until we vote to affiliate or not. If we vote no...it has to be repaid. Some miracle of God would have to happen, like all of a sudden airlines go on a hiring spree or call back all the furloughees OR DELTA f/as call us up and ask to be unionized. Neither, I suspect will happen.

With regard to officers getting paid, all the locals and MEC of all the AFA carriers are not salaried, but paid by their f/a wage in their respective contracts. Only the International officers are paid a salary, and their wage and benfits have been cut drastically as well, to the level of their airline.

 

[PITbull]

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On 7/30/2003 4:53:56 PM wings396 wrote:

Abolishing the 5% is a step in the right direction for once.
I am glad that someone in Management realized this, and did the right thing. It may slow the road to recovery, but will be worth the morale boost. So much for all of you on this board that said that we were "Beating a dead horse". It just goes to show that if you have a valid point, it makes a difference. Next for many of us is the Express pay situation. At some point down the road this is going to need to be addressed by our Unions and the Company. When you see a Non-Union carrier such as CO Express paying $16+ an hour, and us with $13.01...something is VERY wrong. Many if not all of the "Expressed" workers have 20+ years with this company. To have to depend on food stamps, reduced energy bills and free school lunches is pathetic. In the above post by RobC98, you can see that a large portion of the system will soon fall under the Express pay rates. Take warning to what Rob says, because it will be a reality for many more of you in the future. We must band together and fight to earn at least a respectable Non-Union carriers wage.

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BINGO wings, that will be next venture. Get the strike funds crank'en.

 

[wings396]

Abolishing the 5% is a step in the right direction for once.
I am glad that someone in Management realized this, and did the right thing. It may slow the road to recovery, but will be worth the morale boost. So much for all of you on this board that said that we were "Beating a dead horse". It just goes to show that if you have a valid point, it makes a difference. Next for many of us is the Express pay situation. At some point down the road this is going to need to be addressed by our Unions and the Company. When you see a Non-Union carrier such as CO Express paying $16+ an hour, and us with $13.01...something is VERY wrong. Many if not all of the "Expressed" workers have 20+ years with this company. To have to depend on food stamps, reduced energy bills and free school lunches is pathetic. In the above post by RobC98, you can see that a large portion of the system will soon fall under the Express pay rates. Take warning to what Rob says, because it will be a reality for many more of you in the future. We must band together and fight to earn at least a respectable Non-Union carriers wage.

 

[wings396]

PIT, It is a shame that my union did not fight for a better Express wage. When they came to my station for the last
"Shotgun Vote", they told me that they were aware of the
CO Express rates as well as Air Wisconson's being in the $16-$17 range. It all came down to the fact that they were from a Hub city and would never be working for $13 an hour. They knew damn well that we were going to get slammed while they were going to hang on to $19+....OH Yea, my pension is now cut in 1/2 too. Work for a povery wage until I am 75.

 

[CommuterfromCLT]

For those of us represented by the iam I would like to personally apologize to the other labor groups who have been fighting harder and longer for this wage deferral to end. For the iam to try and take credit alone for this deferral ending is an outrage! What really gets me the most is on May 19, 2003 I sent an e-mail to district lodge 141-m quoting their web site headline that US posted a 1.63 billion profit and inquired as to why we were still having 5% deducted from our pay checks!! On May 20,2003 I received an e-mail from district lodge 141-m and the reply I got wasn't that surprising. It basically said the company recently emerged from bankruptcy and wiped out 2 billion in debt and leases, got an ATSB loan for 1 billion, and 500 million from RSA and 200 million from the government, but actually lost 300 million if they had not received the help. Now to the good part, remember the district lodge 141m headline "US Airways post 1.63 billion profit" but then was explained to me that it wasn't a profit, well that same figure 1.63 billion profit was used by district lodge 141-m in their letter to Dave Siegel on why the deferral should end. I guess this time I really am CONFUSED!! Another thing that is rather interesting is the date of the letter July 16, 2003. You don't think what happened over at UAL on July 14, 2003 had anything to do with the iam suddenly showing an interest in this membership do you!