Hub to Hub flights.

[AirbusAVE]

NO West presence for US Airways?? I thought SAN, SNA, LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA were on the West Coast.

He clearly made it obvious he was talking about a west coast hub. US Airways had very little western presence, or "no" west coast presence (virtually). Hence the reason why pre-merger US Airways is referred to as "east."


And US didn't serve PDX nor SNA at the time of the AWA merger. According to this route map; http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/US_Air...ional_CLT.shtml

 

[cleardirect]

Please...? I knew someone, ugg... A320 would throw a bone. I am talking about a true West Coast HUB, PHOENIX!
LAS, just a focus city now. And I am also not talking bout the good ole days of PSA. But thank goodness we still have them here, and I hope the commute is a little easier these days!

There was a study done a couple years ago. Which west pilots have an address east of the Mississippi. It was about 100. My guess is that there would not be more than 10% of both sides both from one side of the country to the other.

That means about 170 west pilots would like east bases but that means that about 300 east pilots would like a west base. Net movement 130 east pilots to the west.

I would like to see a mock bid to confirm this. There is a lot of fear in the east about the "flood" of west pilots coming. I don't see it. But let's discuss it from a basis of fact not fear.

Either way the company is going to control the flow with the number of bids and openings.

 

[nycbusdriver]

There was a study done a couple years ago. Which west pilots have an address east of the Mississippi. It was about 100. My guess is that there would not be more than 10% of both sides both from one side of the country to the other.

That means about 170 west pilots would like east bases but that means that about 300 east pilots would like a west base. Net movement 130 east pilots to the west.

I would like to see a mock bid to confirm this. There is a lot of fear in the east about the "flood" of west pilots coming. I don't see it. But let's discuss it from a basis of fact not fear.

Either way the company is going to control the flow with the number of bids and openings.

A mock bid might be amusing, but I doubt it would be very helpful given the animosity between the two groups. Both sides would probably try their best to skew the information by "bidding" something they wouldn't dream of doing, or vice versa. And a lot would probably just opt to ignore the whole thing on general principles, especially if USAPA were to run it. (I doubt the company is interested in spending the time, money and manpower to run it, either.)

Back in the late 80s, the brain trust at Crystal City decided to move all the MD-80 flying out of the west coast (i.e. PSA) and move 737s out there to replace the flying. They were confident that the PSA pilots would follow the airplane rather than endure ground school. What they ended up with was a HUGE training debacle because, for equal pay, the west pilots decided they would stay home and fly the Boeing. That would seem to somewhat support your theory.

However, a large amount of pilots from those same west coast bases also decided to commute east to fly the 767 to Europe once the LAX 767 base closed. They were following the money. I don't blame them. That seems to support the opinion of the east pilots, that pilots will go for the gold given the opportunity, commuting be da**ed.

I think that pilots will stick close to home if there is little effect on their paycheck, but endure a lot of inconvenience to jump to the left seat or do "premium" flying.

So addresses east or west of the Mississippi may have some effect, but it would not be the overriding factor, IMHO. And we will never see a mock bid run at the company expense, or an effective mock bid run by USAPA.

 

[cleardirect]

A mock bid might be amusing, but I doubt it would be very helpful given the animosity between the two groups. Both sides would probably try their best to skew the information by "bidding" something they wouldn't dream of doing, or vice versa. And a lot would probably just opt to ignore the whole thing on general principles, especially if USAPA were to run it. (I doubt the company is interested in spending the time, money and manpower to run it, either.)

Back in the late 80s, the brain trust at Crystal City decided to move all the MD-80 flying out of the west coast (i.e. PSA) and move 737s out there to replace the flying. They were confident that the PSA pilots would follow the airplane rather than endure ground school. What they ended up with was a HUGE training debacle because, for equal pay, the west pilots decided they would stay home and fly the Boeing. That would seem to somewhat support your theory.

However, a large amount of pilots from those same west coast bases also decided to commute east to fly the 767 to Europe once the LAX 767 base closed. They were following the money. I don't blame them. That seems to support the opinion of the east pilots, that pilots will go for the gold given the opportunity, commuting be da**ed.

I think that pilots will stick close to home if there is little effect on their paycheck, but endure a lot of inconvenience to jump to the left seat or do "premium" flying.

So addresses east or west of the Mississippi may have some effect, but it would not be the overriding factor, IMHO. And we will never see a mock bid run at the company expense, or an effective mock bid run by USAPA.

With about 80% of the flying done by 320-737 there is not a lot of the premium flying we keep hearing about. There will be some right to left movement. But QOL will dictate more than anything. If a captain spot opens in PHX and an east captain takes it. Where does the next in line west guy go? Whereever the junior base happens to be. If he will accept a QOL issue.

I personally want to upgrade in PHX. But after a couple of years of being pushed down by east captains. I will have to decide if the commute is worth the upgrade. But I am not leaving here the first chance I get. I have commuted and it s#$%s.

Besides eventually the west will get some of the NEW premium flying you all rave about.

 

[WCT]

He clearly made it obvious he was talking about a west coast hub. US Airways had very little western presence, or "no" west coast presence (virtually). Hence the reason why pre-merger US Airways is referred to as "east."


And US didn't serve PDX nor SNA at the time of the AWA merger. According to this route map; http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/US_Air...ional_CLT.shtml

Thank you for the clarification. I wanted to start a post for US West Commuters from the West Coast, pilots, and flight attendants. Since we don't have an LAX hub no longer, PHX is the closest and only potential HUB if we stay US Airways. I am hopeing the commute in much easier for pre-merger East employees, with more options thru PHX and LAS. So how may flight attendants commute from the West to East bases?

 

[Iheartflying]

Thank you for the clarification. I wanted to start a post for US West Commuters from the West Coast, pilots, and flight attendants. Since we don't have an LAX hub no longer, PHX is the closest and only potential HUB if we stay US Airways. I am hopeing the commute in much easier for pre-merger East employees, with more options thru PHX and LAS. So how may flight attendants commute from the West to East bases?

WRONG! We may not have served PDX but we sure as heck served SNA.

 

[WCT]

WRONG! We may not have served PDX but we sure as heck served SNA.

Okay, calm down. PHX is your new home.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

WRONG! We may not have served PDX but we sure as heck served SNA.

Are we perhaps confusing SAN with SNA?

Shoot me if I'm wrong, but the old US Airways left SNA some time after the PSA acquisition, and was not serving that city at the time of the AWA-AAA merge. SNA had been served by PSA but became a victim of the "West-Coast-Shrinkage-to-Profitability" plan developed by your enlightened management du jour.........

 

[FutureUScapt]

Are we perhaps confusing SAN with SNA?

Shoot me if I'm wrong, but the old US Airways left SNA some time after the PSA acquisition, and was not serving that city at the time of the AWA-AAA merge. SNA had been served by PSA but became a victim of the "West-Coast-Shrinkage-to-Profitability" plan developed by your enlightened management du jour.........

Nope, you are correct - US ended service to SNA in fall 2003. US ran 2 daily SNA-PIT flights throughout most of the 90s/early 2000s, but at the time it was dropped it was 1 daily flight each to PHL and PIT. I still can't believe that the merged airline has not added back any nonstops from SNA to the east coast.

As for PDX, US never served that station after the summer of 1995. Following the failed US/UA merger, US announced service from PDX to PHL and PIT, but it never materialized following the events of 9/11.

 

[AirbusAVE]

Yeah. If US-East did not even serve PDX... I would basically call that "No west coast presence." It's hyperbole, exaggeration. Even AWA had flights to Raleigh, Providence, Baltimore, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, etc. etc.



:huh: It's no reason to jump a guys throat because you misinterpret what someone says and can't understand a basic English concept of exaggeration.

All he wanted to know was "how many West Coast commuters do we have based in the East? How many commute from PHX or LAS."



Geez. Some peoples panties are clearly all in a knot... I fail to see how any decent person could twist what he said into somthing negative...



What he said:


How many West Coast commuters do we have based in the East? How many commute from PHX or LAS??
I was amazed to see how many flights we run from PHX-PHL and CLT, a total of 14 roundtrips!! Plus, once you reach PHX, there are so many options to California destinations and daily flights. No wonder we have so many non-revs able to get across the system on a daily basis. Sounds like a win win for all our East commuters, and West employees trying to get out East! I know there have been lots of decreases out West, but nice to see a lot of options for customers and employees still out of PHX.





Sheesh.

 

[USCREW]

Okay, calm down. PHX is your new home.

I think the number of commuters is around 300 from West to East, particularly to PHL for T/A.

 

[US Oringinal]

WCT--
I commute from the West Coast to an East coast hub and have been for the past 6 years. Exact numbers would be hard to get, but my feeling is that there are about 250 commuting F/a"s to East Coast hubs...primarily to PHL(my guess would be 75% commute to PHL)

As far as the HUB in PHX making it easier...my answer is heck NO! I and most of my fellow commuters avoid it like the plague...better to take Southwest to LAS or United to SFO or US to a West Coast city and then connect on SWA. The reason?? PHL-PHX andCLT-PHX are NOTORIOUSLY hard to get on as a non-rev because of the HUGE number of "company" people going back and forth to Tempe on comapny business...the connecting times in PHX are really short so you are screwed if you sit on the runway iN PHl for 45 mins before taking off. Another factor is the number of non-revs on these two flights using their high-priority, SA1 passes for vacation purposes to go to Eurpoe or the Islands. Matter of fact, I feel sorry for THE PHX commuters who are based in PHL and CLT..they have to deal with the above everytime they commute.

One final point..it's a shame, but starting in Oct or Nov the company cuts about 1/2 of the nonstops to the West Coast..stopping many of the red-eyes and the early morning flights out of the west. This makes a "same-day" commute in for a trip impossible...so west coast commuters have to pay for a hotel room the night before our trips. Such is the life of a commuter...and I'm not complaining...but my feeling is that there is enough traffic out of SAN, SFO, LAX, SEA to support both red-eyes every night and morning flights that would arrive in CLT and PHL before 3pm(thus connec ting to afternoon Europe flts)...however the company sees trans-con flights as "seasonal" so come Nov. 1st our schedule to the West coast is slashed...

Hope this might shed some light for you WCT...

For the most part, for West Coast commuters our PHX hub is not a viable option most of the time...

 

[nic4us]

Just one minor imput. the west has been taking delivery of 321s, and they are used frequently on PHX-PHL, PHX-CLT, SEA-CLT,SAN-CLT etc. I do not know how the east 321s are configured but the new West have 3 extra FA jumpseats. So there might be room enough if you do not rule it out offhandedly.

 

[US Oringinal]

Just one minor imput. the west has been taking delivery of 321s, and they are used frequently on PHX-PHL, PHX-CLT, SEA-CLT,SAN-CLT etc. I do not know how the east 321s are configured but the new West have 3 extra FA jumpseats. So there might be room enough if you do not rule it out offhandedly.

You are right--the 321 is a commuter's SAVIOR!!

 

[FutureUScapt]

WCT--
One final point..it's a shame, but starting in Oct or Nov the company cuts about 1/2 of the nonstops to the West Coast..stopping many of the red-eyes and the early morning flights out of the west. This makes a "same-day" commute in for a trip impossible...so west coast commuters have to pay for a hotel room the night before our trips. Such is the life of a commuter...and I'm not complaining...but my feeling is that there is enough traffic out of SAN, SFO, LAX, SEA to support both red-eyes every night and morning flights that would arrive in CLT and PHL before 3pm(thus connec ting to afternoon Europe flts)...however the company sees trans-con flights as "seasonal" so come Nov. 1st our schedule to the West coast is slashed...

Prob won't help too much, but US is adding an 8th CLT-PHX r/t eff 12/17. Westbound flight will leave around 10pm EST and the eastbound flight will be a second redeye (that should really help as the current 1 redeye always seems to have a ton on nonrevs listed).

While traditionally there has been a pulldown in transcon flying, there appears to be a boost eff 12/17; I'm not sure if this is just for the holiday season or what. PHL-SAN/SEA each go back to 3 r/t and CLT/PHL-LAX each get one additional r/t for a total of 5 and 6 respectively, which is more than they offered at any point in recent years.