How''s are NEW co-workers doing ?? (RON Cleaners) !!!!

[AAmech]

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On 6/19/2003 1121 AM 1AA wrote:

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On 6/19/2003 10:40:36 AM AAmech wrote:



Current outsouce limit is 21%.  ALL HEAVY CHECKS DONE IN HOUSE BY AA MECHANICS!!!

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21% of what? Maintenance budget, fleet size, etc...
Is there a letter of agreement in writing on farmout cap? Where did you get 21% from? I am curious as to this figure since in the past the company and union never could provide a cap on farmout. Beware now that UAL and USAir are farming out at record numbers, this may start a new trend in the industry. We are not immune to this.

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Lets not leave out CO, NWA and AK who also outsource in record numbers. This is no new trend, its just getting worse every year. Our profession is slowing going away.

 

[FWAAA]

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On 6/19/2003 6:42:06 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

Pulling "this" back on topic,

I wonder how many YES voters, "who have been RIF-ed because of RON/cabins", realize how many PERMANENT jobs have been lost FOREVER ???

I wonder how many YES voters(who just got RIF-ed because of RON/cabins) realize that,

1. Yes, they would have(most likely) got RIF-ed by a BK judge.

"B U T",

2. would have had a "better" chance of getting re-called SOONER,

"BECAUSE",

3. they voted "NO", and would have(eventually) had "those" jobs(RON), to be re-called to ?????????????????????


"GOD save us from (the Majority) of ourselves" !!!!!!!!

NH/BB''s

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Let it go. The "Yes" votes were more numerous. The "No" voters lost. The "Yes" voters lost.

On temporary v. permanent job losses: So how are those guys at USAir and United doing with their "temporary" job cuts in bankruptcy??

Keep telling yourself, "If only AA had filed Ch 11, everything would be so much better for everyone."

 

[rampguy]

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On 6/19/2003 6:42:06 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

Pulling "this" back on topic,

I wonder how many YES voters, "who have been RIF-ed because of RON/cabins", realize how many PERMANENT jobs have been lost FOREVER ???

I wonder how many YES voters(who just got RIF-ed because of RON/cabins) realize that,

1. Yes, they would have(most likely) got RIF-ed by a BK judge.

"B U T",

2. would have had a "better" chance of getting re-called SOONER,

"BECAUSE",

3. they voted "NO", and would have(eventually) had "those" jobs(RON), to be re-called to ?????????????????????


"GOD save us from (the Majority) of ourselves" !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

----------------​

I voted yes. I am RIF'd. Contrary to your belief, It is my opinion that I will be recalled much sooner than if the "NO's" had won out. It's time you stop thinking you were right and we were wrong, mis-informed, stupid, scared or just terrible union members. You don't get to make the final judgement on the rest of us. I am very comfortable with my decision. You, I guess, are comfortable with yours so drop it. Move on.

BTW, your above scenerio is seriously flawed. You forget that if the "NO's" had won out then those jobs you mentioned + many many more would be gone FOREVER. Even fewer left working and working for even less.


"Lord forgive him. He knows not what he speaks".

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 6/18/2003 921 PM AAmech wrote:



But never ever a GOP stooge, though that is where the greatest foes of labor are coming from.




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No, you''re your own worst enemy.

 

[DFWCC]

I wonder. If all this outsourcing of AMTs and FSC also gone or soon to be are the weather team, can AA outsource FAs? With a little more pressure outsourcing of pilots will be next. Then AA will outsource mngt ( thats where they should have started and stopped ) Gee if they sell all the aircraft and lease same. Cost will be cut and senior mngt can give themselves bonuses for saving so much money.
WHAT''S WRONG HERE?

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 6/19/2003 10:40:36 AM AAmech wrote:


Current outsouce limit is 21%.  ALL HEAVY CHECKS DONE IN HOUSE BY AA MECHANICS!!!

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Can you understand this? (from AA/TWU Scope Clause)

(a) It is the intention of the Company to insure that the
predominant volume of work under Cross Service, Base Maintenance and Line
Maintenance Service Agreements be performed by the Company employees. It
is further understood, in no event, that the volume of work be less than equal to the work performed by other carriers for American Airlines under Cross Service, Base Maintenance and Line Maintenance Service Agreements. The ratio of mechanic work performed in terms of man-hours will be reflected
quarterly, in writing, to the Union.

Repete after me:
less than equal...less than equal...less than equal.....That means %49.9 OUTSOURCE LIMIT! NOT %21
Which Republican authored that language? Jim Little? Sonny the Bus Driver? Dennis the domestic squabbler?

See, You''re your own worst enemy.

 

[FA Mikey]

We have outsourced f/a''s. They are the foreign nationals.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 6/20/2003 1226 AM DFWCC wrote:

With a little more pressure outsourcing of pilots will be next.
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I think that Brittish already does.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 6/19/2003 1030 PM rampguy wrote:


BTW, your above scenerio is seriously flawed. You forget that if the "NO's" had won out then those jobs you mentioned + many many more would be gone FOREVER. Even fewer left working and working for even less.



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And what gives you the divine ability to know the future?

The fact is that USAIR and UAL were in a lot worse shape than AA because for 20 years we have underbid them by accepting concessions that their workers would not. We have been the scabs of the industry for twenty years, dragging everyone else down with us. Our concessions basically allowed AA to get outsourcing prices in house, and that was prior to the most recent round.

Despite that, those airlines are still there.

Who needs the threat of Foreign or third party when the TWU is willing to underbid anybody? From B-scale, C-scale to "you've got to meet the number" the TWU/ATD has been the leader at ruining what used to be a great industry to work in.

Why would they do that? Numbers. Over the last twenty years, despite giving away some jobs overall AMR/TWU membership has more than tripled. So even with lower salaries the total dues increased. ATD officers are not accountable to the members who they sell out. They get to tell Sonny, Hey look at how our membership has grown! As far as the top guys who are all making well into the six figures are concerned the ATD is doing a great job. As they push through massive concessions for the members their pay and benifits are unaffected. You would think that they should at least "share the pain" like they insisted that management does. The excuse is that they represent workers at many carriers so their pay should not be affected by the misfortune of any one group, however they should get credit for any raises that are put through. Its easy for them to distance themselves from the members because they are not accountable to them.

The TWU/ATD represents the lowest paid flight attendants-SWA, so if SWA gets a raise, so will the officers, there is no mechanism in place to cut the pay of ATD officers, just to raise them. Apparently if they are able to get any one group a raise, then they get a raise. So even though they pushed through massive concessions on the 30,000 AA TWU members, in an amont exceeding 25% if the SWA flight attendants get a 10% raise, so can the ATD officers.

The fact is there is no accountability in this union at the level where the decisions are made.

If you dont think that you have been scamed then you are seriously out of touch.

Things must change.

Those who make the decisions must be accountable to the members. If the Union can not be changed then the members must change Unions.
-Without accountability there is no representation.
-Without accountability there is no Democracy.
-Without accountability there is no union, just a self serving organization that takes our money.






.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 6/18/2003 12:40:48 PM Wild Onion wrote:

Quality on cleaning tray tables and taking out the trash? Are you guys serious?

Does a union guy really spray lysol and walk to the dumpster that much better than a guy making $6.00 an hour?

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The problem is that there is a high turnover at $6/hr. That makes this an easy route for terrorists to gain access to the aircraft. At JFK these people are escorted by a security guard because they do not have ramp access. How dilligent is the guard? The guards are also making low wages with a high turnover. One guard for 20 or more workers, he couldnt really monitor them even if he knew what he was supposed to be looking for, besides he is more likely to be looking to satisfy carnal desires than security breaches. Now terrorists dont even have to die to do what they want. Just go on and put a bomb on the plane and not return to work the next day. With all the turnover there is no way that these companies are doing backround checks. Most of the workers appear to be recent immigrants, how far back can they go with them? Having a worker that simply never returns is not unusual for those types of jobs. An audit by the Port Authority a few years back revealed that thousands of Ramp passes where unaccounted for. The low paying jobs apparently caused most of the problems because there was a high turnover rate, the workers would simply never return.

Hey but if it saves a buck, right?

Lets agree to give up all our rights in the name of security but if its going to add a nickel to the price of an airline ticket lets take the chance. Lets give up our rights in the name of security but if its going to cost money thats too much to ask. After all what more important, rights or money?

 

[FWAAA]

OK, you got me there. For now, they are still cleaning their own planes.

What about overhaul??

That''s right, neither overhauls their own planes - that''s outsourced now.

Better to clean them than maintain them, I guess.

After one or both liquidates, let''s revisit this topic.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

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On 6/19/2003 9:38:28 PM FWAAA wrote:

----------------
On 6/19/2003 6:42:06 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

Pulling "this" back on topic,

I wonder how many YES voters, "who have been RIF-ed because of RON/cabins", realize how many PERMANENT jobs have been lost FOREVER ???

I wonder how many YES voters(who just got RIF-ed because of RON/cabins) realize that,

1. Yes, they would have(most likely) got RIF-ed by a BK judge.

"B U T",

2. would have had a "better" chance of getting re-called SOONER,

"BECAUSE",

3. they voted "NO", and would have(eventually) had "those" jobs(RON), to be re-called to ?????????????????????


"GOD save us from (the Majority) of ourselves" !!!!!!!!

NH/BB''s

----------------​

Let it go. The "Yes" votes were more numerous. The "No" voters lost. The "Yes" voters lost.

On temporary v. permanent job losses: So how are those guys at USAir and United doing with their "temporary" job cuts in bankruptcy??

Keep telling yourself, "If only AA had filed Ch 11, everything would be so much better for everyone."

----------------​

(Bankrupt)USAIR, and UNITED, are still cleaning their own planes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB''s

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

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On 6/20/2003 11:40:14 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

(Bankrupt)USAIR, and UNITED, are still cleaning their own planes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

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Better tell ACI then, they've been foolishly cleaning the cabins and servicing the lavs on the UAL aircraft here at LGA....

 

[rampguy]

Hey Bob,
My devine right comes from the same place as yours. Why didn''t you ask Bears the same question?
I wasn''t trying to fortell the future, just offer another scenerio different than what he posted.

 

[audio-nut]

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On 6/20/2003 6:34:51 AM Bob Owens wrote:
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At JFK these people are escorted by a security guard because they do not have ramp access. How diligent is the guard? The guards are also making low wages with a high turnover. One guard for 20 or more workers, he couldn''t really monitor them even if he knew what he was supposed to be looking for, besides he is more likely to be looking to satisfy carnal desires than security breaches.
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Isn''t the limit 5 non badge holders per 1 escorter?